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jashper
02-26-2015, 09:49 PM
Hi all,

I've tested U152+ on 23andMe, and recently received my Y-DNA67 results. I'm looking to do some further SNP testing, but am unsure of where to start. I'd greatly appreciate any advice on how best to proceed.

Some points of interest that I've noticed are the following YCAII=19-22, DYS393=14, and DYS492=13. My full set of markers can be found at Ysearch with ID: Y6QVE

Cheers,
Tommy

mafe
02-26-2015, 10:22 PM
Hi all,

I've tested U152+ on 23andMe, and recently received my Y-DNA67 results. I'm looking to do some further SNP testing, but am unsure of where to start. I'd greatly appreciate any advice on how best to proceed.

Some points of interest that I've noticed are the following YCAII=19-22, DYS393=14, and DYS492=13. My full set of markers can be found at Ysearch with ID: Y6QVE

Cheers,
Tommy

Hi Tommy,

Are you reported R1b1b2a1a2d or R1b1b2a1a2d* at 23andMe?

jashper
02-26-2015, 10:23 PM
R1b1b2a1a2d*, thanks

mafe
02-26-2015, 10:44 PM
R1b1b2a1a2d*, thanks

Well, that means you're negative for L2. That leaves us with Z56, Z36, PF6658/Z193 and a couple of smaller subclades.

Z56 --> DYS492=14 is a strong indicator for Z56 but DYS492=13 is also found in Z56, so that is still an option.
Z36 --> At the moment there aren't any Z36+ men with a DYS492=13 in the U152 project, so that makes Z36 less likely.
Z193 --> Unfortunately PF6658 and Z193 aren't available for individual testing because of the location on the Y chromosome.

A number of smaller subclades (and also Z36 and Z56) can be tested at YSEQ ($17,50 per SNP).

jashper
02-26-2015, 10:53 PM
Well, that means you're negative for L2. That leaves us with Z56, Z36, PF6658/Z193 and a couple of smaller subclades.

Z56 --> DYS492=14 is a strong indicator for Z56 but DYS492=13 is also found in Z56, so that is still an option.
Z36 --> At the moment there aren't any Z36+ men with a DYS492=13 in the U152 project, so that makes Z36 less likely.
Z193 --> Unfortunately PF6658 and Z193 aren't available for individual testing because of the location on the Y chromosome.

A number of smaller subclades (and also Z36 and Z56) can be tested at YSEQ ($17,50 per SNP).

Much appreciated! I'll go ahead and place an order for Z56 then.

jashper
02-26-2015, 11:01 PM
Out of curiosity, would you happen to know why Z56 is not listed on the Y-DNA haplotree at FamilyTreeDNA?

mafe
02-26-2015, 11:05 PM
Much appreciated! I'll go ahead and place an order for Z56 then.

Have you contacted the U152 project admins to see if they have got some advice on what to order?


Out of curiosity, would you happen to know why Z56 is not listed on the Y-DNA haplotree at FamilyTreeDNA?

I believe the current tree is based on the Geno 2.0 results. Z56 failed on the Geno chip and I believe many SNPs downstream of Z56 failed aswell. So that might be a reason why they didn't include it.

Petr
02-26-2015, 11:48 PM
Are you a member of U152 and Subclades Research Project https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-u152/ ?

I think the admins could place you to the right branch based on your Y-STR67 results here: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/default.aspx?section=yresults

Solothurn
03-01-2015, 03:17 AM
I think PF6658/Z193 was also unreliable due to Heterozygosity!

I know S20550 is available at Yseq which is 'downstream' of PF6658/Z193.

It looks like it is quite old too judging by 287052 Abraham Valine and B3265 Peter Searfoss/Zerfass both being S20550+ !




Z193 --> Unfortunately PF6658 and Z193 aren't available for individual testing because of the location on the Y chromosome.

A number of smaller subclades (and also Z36 and Z56) can be tested at YSEQ ($17,50 per SNP).

Solothurn
05-09-2015, 12:27 PM
Is your Z56 result in yet?


Much appreciated! I'll go ahead and place an order for Z56 then.

jashper
06-02-2015, 10:06 PM
Sorry, I didn't end up ordering the test because I'm planning on doing the Big Y instead, will provide an update when I get results

abds
06-03-2015, 12:11 PM
Sorry, I didn't end up ordering the test because I'm planning on doing the Big Y instead, will provide an update when I get results

Good another Z56 with BIG Y :) please join also to YFULL as you will have the BIG Y BAM file

Ciao

gratian
06-08-2015, 11:36 PM
Good another Z56 with BIG Y :) please join also to YFULL as you will have the BIG Y BAM file

Ciao

I am also a Z56 that ordered the Big Y from ftDNA. Batch 624 with a expected date of 07/22/2015 - 08/05/2015 as of now.

R.Rocca
06-09-2015, 12:21 AM
Not that there is not good value at YFULL, but they only have a very small amount of U152 samples in their database, so the potential to find matches is not very good. By contrast, if you join the U152 project, we match your Big-Y results against well over 250 U152+ samples. The point is...make sure you join the U152 project! ;)

The U152 Project tree is as follows and is updated almost weekly: http://www.r1b.org/docs/Full_Y-Chromosome_U152_Samples.xlsx

abds
06-09-2015, 06:13 AM
Ciao Richard I don't agree about yfull, what you will have from their job is a great interpretation of the bam file with the extraction of many details that ftdna don't show, like all the STR (about 400), more of this the costs of their interpretation is really small 40 USD and their haplotree is 1000% better for example respect the one of R Group in FTDNA.
Of course sample of U152 aren't much (but not so small) but with this small Group they have done a great job grouped me in more deep and correct view respect FTDNA that have a wrong haplotree for U152 or as you prefear not updated.
Related the U152 project that you administer really well and professionally it is a different thing from my opinion respect to have the data interpreted in YFULL it is a complementery action.

only this have the value of 40 usd at my opinion:
http://www.yfull.com/share/yreport/a4200bd8331d8a1c3e7cf6fc2102495d/

MitchellSince1893
06-09-2015, 11:27 AM
It shouldn't be an either or decision. I recommend all U152 types doing BigY or FGC tests join the FTDNA U152 project and do Yfull analysis.

If you can afford it, do the FGC analysis too as it may identify SNPs that Yfull analysis may miss.

R.Rocca
06-09-2015, 12:00 PM
It shouldn't be an either or decision. I recommend all U152 types doing BigY or FGC tests join the FTDNA U152 project and do Yfull analysis.

If you can afford it, do the FGC analysis too as it may identify SNPs that Yfull analysis may miss.

You are right, it is not an either or...however, I have noticed several times that folks are submitting to YFull and not joining the U152 project and/or not submitting the BAM to the U152 project administrators, and that was my reasoning for posting.

abds
06-09-2015, 12:14 PM
don't join u152 is stupid but is stupid also to don't join yfull simple because ftdna don't have the same instrument quality for analize the BIGY data.
The project u152 as all the ftdna project don't extract the STR from the big y, don't permit to compare the big y with Others FGC, don't use the correct haplotree. you can say regards the haplotree that the administrator have one managed by them and with this i agree, but it is not at the same graphics level and updated as the one of yfull. We can be sure that u152 and Richard do a good job with the tree of u152 but i'm not so sure of all the other groups.

So discuss to join or not to u152 and/or yfull is at my opinion unsufull, at the actual stage of FTDNA are needed both and don't join yfull for 40usd after have spent for the BIG Y or any other FGC is a nonsense :)

kw5368
06-09-2015, 04:55 PM
I have tested positive at FTDNA to R-S42 which is below Z150. This is as far as I can go at FTDNA at this point. Hopefully they will have more SNP's available in the future. I have also tested positive at Yseq for CTS7197 on the advice of a friend. We had initially thought that this was a family SNP, but it turns out that the first person who tested positive for this SNP is Chinese and belongs to haplogroup N. Richard says that this is no relationship to myself and my relative who has also tested positive for CTS7197 below R-S42. My question is: Does anyone know if there are other tests at Yseq below CTS7197? It would be nice if the available tests at Yseq would be shown in order below a branch SNP like Z150 or Z142 like FTDNA does it. Any help would be appreciated.

Another problem I see is that there are so many different names for SNP's that I don't know if I'm looking at the same SNP on different trees or not. Is there a cross reference that shows all the different names for the same SNP? An example would be R-S7402 at YFull is the same as Z150 at FTDNA, but below R-S7402 I don't know where I would be on the YFull tree. Z150 and S42 are not even listed on the ISOOG tree. This makes things confusing for me.

I agree with Richard that all of the people who have tested Geno 2.0, YFull, FTDNA, etc. need to join their respective projects. This is the only way that we will be able to trace SNP mutations back to there source.

Ken

Ken

MitchellSince1893
06-09-2015, 09:16 PM
You are right, it is not an either or...however, I have noticed several times that folks are submitting to YFull and not joining the U152 project and/or not submitting the BAM to the U152 project administrators, and that was my reasoning for posting.

Those that don't join the FTDNA project should have their U152 membership revoked. :D :biggrin1:;):P (added excessive smilies so folks will not miss that I'm kidding)

But in all seriousness, if you haven't done so you may want to reach out to the Yfull project admin Tony Wilson [email protected] to encourage cross pollination. On the Yfull STR page there is an internal email link for all the U152 members listed so there is a way to contact these folks.

I have to assume it's just ignorance of the FTDNA project, because there is no logical reason why a BigY or FGC test participant wouldn't want to take advantage of the free FTDNA project benefits and expertise.

gratian
06-09-2015, 11:47 PM
Not that there is not good value at YFULL, but they only have a very small amount of U152 samples in their database, so the potential to find matches is not very good. By contrast, if you join the U152 project, we match your Big-Y results against well over 250 U152+ samples. The point is...make sure you join the U152 project! ;)

The U152 Project tree is as follows and is updated almost weekly: http://www.r1b.org/docs/Full_Y-Chromosome_U152_Samples.xlsx

Yes, I am a member of your U152 group as kit # 365054. I will also take advantage of YFULL when I receive my Big Y results.

abds
06-10-2015, 12:11 PM
Yes, I am a member of your U152 group as kit # 365054. I will also take advantage of YFULL when I receive my Big Y results.

Great :D

abds
06-10-2015, 12:14 PM
I have to assume it's just ignorance of the FTDNA project, because there is no logical reason why a BigY or FGC test participant wouldn't want to take advantage of the free FTDNA project benefits and expertise.

I agree but when i start to learn about gen dna I remember that i have got some time before understand how to move and where join... there isn't a site/place that explain in a simple way all this sites and groups and what to aspect to find in them and why all are important a pieces of the puzzle :D

Táltos
06-10-2015, 01:47 PM
I agree but when i start to learn about gen dna I remember that i have got some time before understand how to move and where join... there isn't a site/place that explain in a simple way all this sites and groups and what to aspect to find in them and why all are important a pieces of the puzzle :D
This is a good place to learn when just starting out. http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Wiki_Welcome_Page I agree though not so obvious to find. I recently ordered a new kit, and I can say FTDNA actually had a link in the email for the ISOGG website.

abds
06-10-2015, 06:55 PM
ciao taltos the problem is that new peoples don't find with easy a summary of the dna gen, there are many information around the Internet but recontruct the situation well require times and people with strong interest. many times the documents are to basic, other times are to complex and in many case don't give pratic information for peoples that approach the different services and company.
thanks for the link i know it but is not what i think as a guide for a people that move his first steps on this topics and need to choice services and how to spend money :)
ciao ciao

gratian
07-10-2015, 01:18 AM
Steve Gilbert took a look at my BigY data and have temporarily assigned me to the following group on the R-U152 project:

U152> Z56,Z42,Z43> 22087296> S1523,FGC24646,21046292> 9029206> 8202713 et al.> 2885918 et al.

he said it may take some days or weeks to accurately verified if it is the case.

gratian
07-12-2015, 05:08 PM
Yes, I am a member of your U152 group as kit # 365054. I will also take advantage of YFULL when I receive my Big Y results.

Interesting discussion of yfull.com at this link.

http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=38145

Richard A. Rocca your R-U152 site really provides me all that I wish for my family research. You maintain a fantastic R-U152 tree and group classic spreadsheet. This has me wondering if providing you and Steve with my BAM file is all that I really require. I might just put the yfull.com option on the back burner, at least for now.

R.Rocca
07-13-2015, 12:02 AM
Interesting discussion of yfull.com at this link.

http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=38145

Richard A. Rocca your R-U152 site really provides me all that I wish for my family research. You maintain a fantastic R-U152 tree and group classic spreadsheet. This has me wondering if providing you and Steve with my BAM file is all that I really require. I might just put the yfull.com option on the back burner, at least for now.

Sure gratian, I will check your BAM file against others.

gratian
07-13-2015, 12:31 AM
Sure gratian, I will check your BAM file against others.

Do you have an opinion of Full Genomes working with BAM files, pro or con?

R.Rocca
07-13-2015, 11:03 AM
Do you have an opinion of Full Genomes working with BAM files, pro or con?

Pro. The guy that does the analysis really knows his stuff.