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View Full Version : L23 and L51 now below CTS7822 on FT-DNA's R-Haplotree?



Geolocke
03-01-2015, 09:29 PM
I just noticed that FT-DNA revised their Y R-Haplotree by removing L23 from the same level a L150 and placing it and L51 beneath CTS7822. This is a major restructuring of the Y R-Haplotree.

I must have been asleep at the wheel. When was this change made? This could change the SNP testing for the members of our Bristol Channel project (focus on CTS7822/CTS9219)

I received no announcement about this shift in the R-tree and I'm just a little confused.

-geo

Geolocke
03-01-2015, 10:00 PM
ISOOG and YFull show no change in their trees. This has got to be a mistake, probably an editing error.

Joe B
03-02-2015, 12:19 AM
I just noticed that FT-DNA revised their Y R-Haplotree by removing L23 from the same level a L150 and placing it and L51 beneath CTS7822. This is a major restructuring of the Y R-Haplotree.

I must have been asleep at the wheel. When was this change made? This could change the SNP testing for the members of our Bristol Channel project (focus on CTS7822/CTS9219)

I received no announcement about this shift in the R-tree and I'm just a little confused.

-geo
FTDNA has been told numerous times to just drop L150 from their haplotree. It's screws up their algorithm because of M269+, L150+, PF7562+,L23- and M269+, L23+, L150+, Z2103+ haplotypes. Not to mention the L150 back mutation seen with 108347, a R1b-CTS78722 haplotype found in the very excellent Bristol Channel DNA (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bristol-channel-dna/dna-results) project.

Geolocke
03-02-2015, 01:30 AM
Thanks Joe, but I guess I wasn't really concerned with L150 other than it being a point of reference on FT-DNA's existing Y R-Haplotree.

Let's look at the tree structure posted on the Ht35 project page for reference, and then take L23 and the left hand branches of L51 and sub branches, and move that entire branching structure and place it beneath CTS7822/Z2110, then you would see (apx.) what FT-DNA is now showing on their Y R-Haplotree.

I have got to believe that this is an editing mistake on FT-DNA's part because (I would think) that there would have been some kind of notification before making such a radical adjustment to the tree Y R-Haplotree.

I have not received any word back from FT-DNA about this yet, but it is the weekend.

Geolocke
03-03-2015, 02:35 AM
I have been in contact with FT DNA and they are looking into my question.

Geolocke
03-10-2015, 04:23 PM
Well, I heard back from Family Tree DNA this morning. This is their response to my question about the restructuring of the Y R-tree:


"L23 isn't beneath CTS7822, it's a brother clade. Both are downstream of L150, but they're separate branches."

I'm not really sure where this leaves me or the Bristol Channel project. Things used to look straight-cut, but now with this new alignment I don't know. I suppose for now that I will continue to rely on ISOGG's Y R-tree for guidance, but I have a feeling that I may be answering a lot of questions from less informed kit owners (an I am not terribly informed myself!) The best I can hope for is that this is just a different way of displaying the same data versus a change in the physical structure (descendancy) of the tree.

I would appreciate someone more knowledgeable than me to take a look at what FT DNA is publishing as the Y R-tree and compare it to ISSOG and see if it is just a different way of displaying the same data or if there really are physical differences between the two trees. Thanks.

Joe B
03-10-2015, 05:36 PM
Please rely on the R1b-M269 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ht-3-5new/about/background) research tree. A new subgroup was just added, _b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ > CTS7556+ > FGC29330+, that includes a Bristol Channel project member. The ISOGG tree is very important and we work closely with them. ISOGG depends on verification and the work that is done within our project so it will always be a little behind. These are very good times for the R1b-CTS7822 members of the Bristol Channel project.

Geolocke
03-11-2015, 01:20 AM
Thanks Joe! We'll refer to the R1b-M269 (P312-, U106-) project for SNPs. Any particular SNPs you need tested? We have some project funds set aside for testing.

nec3
03-12-2015, 07:19 PM
Hi,

This is my first post. I was not sure where to post. This thread seemed closest. Sorry if wrong.



I am L23+ L150+ Z2103+ .

My project admin told me to order L584. But i cant find L584 at haplogroup tree page on my FTDNA .

Humanist
03-12-2015, 08:00 PM
Hi,

This is my first post. I was not sure where to post. This thread seemed closest. Sorry if wrong.



I am L23+ L150+ Z2103+ .

My project admin told me to order L584. But i cant find L584 at haplogroup tree page on my FTDNA .

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I reckon you are referring to the ht35 project? If so, two of the admins of that project post here regularly (Joe B and smal). L584 can be found via the "Advanced Tests" order menu. On the "Test Type" drop down menu, select "SNP." In the "Marker" field, type "L584." Then "Add" it.

nec3
03-12-2015, 09:07 PM
Hello and welcome to the forum.

I reckon you are referring to the ht35 project? If so, two of the admins of that project post here regularly (Joe B and smal). L584 can be found via the "Advanced Tests" order menu. On the "Test Type" drop down menu, select "SNP." In the "Marker" field, type "L584." Then "Add" it.

Thank you...!

Joe B
03-12-2015, 09:12 PM
Hi,
This is my first post. I was not sure where to post. This thread seemed closest. Sorry if wrong.
I am L23+ L150+ Z2103+ .
My project admin told me to order L584. But i cant find L584 at haplogroup tree page on my FTDNA .

Hello and welcome to the forum.
I reckon you are referring to the ht35 project? If so, two of the admins of that project post here regularly (Joe B and smal). L584 can be found via the "Advanced Tests" order menu. On the "Test Type" drop down menu, select "SNP." In the "Marker" field, type "L584." Then "Add" it.
Hello nec3 and wellcome to the Anthrogenica forum. You got close to the R1b-L584 threads with your first post as both L584 and CTS7822 are clades of the R1b-Z2103 haplogroup.

Humanist is correct in pointing out that L584 is not on the FTDNA haplotree and the need to order through the advanced menu, that's not unusual. Go to the bottom of your FTDNA Haplotree and SNPs page and look for this line "Do you want to order a SNP that's not available on this page? Check out of our advanced SNP order form!" and click the lnk.

If you have not already, please join the R1b-M269 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ht-3-5new/about/background) as that is where the phylogenetic work is being done for all the clades of Z2103, including L584.

Check out all the threads in sub-forums R1b Early Subclades (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?51-R1b-Early-Subclades) and R1b-Z2103/Z2105 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?147-R1b-Z2103-Z2105). If you turn out to be L584+, From R-L23/L150 to R-PF7580 & L584 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1586-From-R-L23-L150-to-R-PF7580-amp-L584) [/URL] and L277 and L584 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?112-L277-and-L584)

@Humanist, We can't let byrgian off the hook. He is a very active administrator of the project and ISOGG too.