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amerinese
10-16-2012, 02:45 AM
I stumbled across these TMRCA charts on a genealogy page for the Marres family. The page is in Dutch. Seeing as how it has the new nomenclature G2a1b, rather than G2a2, I expect these are fairly recent. It appears to include all people from the FTDNA G project who are categorized as L223+ and have at least 37 markers tested.

I didn't see anything prohibiting reposting the information on the site, and hopefully the Marres family genealogy administrator won't mind, seeing as how he used our Haplogroup G public domain data to create them and publish them on the internet.

Source: http://www.marres.nl/G2a1b.htm

Google translation to English:

These are all persons with at least 37 markers in the FTDNA page of haplogroup G stand.
Of the members of haplogroup G2a1b with Y-DNA Comparison Utility two tables.
times are calculated on the basis of the genetic distances, placing the agreement of haplotypes.
A - G2a1b - and tested negative for, or assumed not to belong to the subgroups

http://www.marres.nl/afb/TMRCA-G2a1b.jpg

Google translation to English:


Some members of the primary group to the clade added to which they seem to belong, they were given the extension 'pm'. Two members of G2a1b2 G2a1b2b have been moved to the appropriate on the basis of their genetic distance, Heubach of G2a1b2 negative for all the subgroups of Creamer G2a1b2 predicted, even though both the aberrant marker DYF395S1 = 15, 16, instead of have 15, 17.
Taken from the People page on the FTDNA haplogroup G contained in the subgroups of haplogroup G2a1b. These are the clades 1, 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3, and 4,
B - G2a1b and belonging to one of the subgroups
The family 'The British' comes from the Brabant project.

http://www.marres.nl/afb/TMRCA-G2a1b%20claden.jpg

Interesting charts. Those estimates relevant to my paternal line and those closely related, do appear reasonable based on my genealogical knowledge and familiarity with other family origins. I'd be interested in hearing feedback, especially from anyone else who is L223+, appearing on this chart, and familiar with your paternal line genealogy.

Otzi
10-24-2012, 02:09 PM
They correctly conclude that the TMRCA calculations are complete rubbish (at least for long genetic distances) – as the calculated TMRCA with some L91 people is less than Otzi’s age (5300 years).
L223 moved to or formed in Europe more than 7000 years ago – I bet that the G2a’s in the Avellaner cave (Spain) are L223.

amerinese
10-24-2012, 08:56 PM
They correctly conclude that the TMRCA calculations are complete rubbish (at least for long genetic distances) – as the calculated TMRCA with some L91 people is less than Otzi’s age (5300 years).
L223 moved to or formed in Europe more than 7000 years ago – I bet that the G2a’s in the Avellaner cave (Spain) are L223.

Yes, excellent point. The TMRCA between ex. M286 and L91 is proven by Otzi remains to be greater than 5 KYA.

Can you explain the reasoning behind your statements on the estimated age of L223? With long-range TMRCA based on STR values being largely useless, I'm trying to understand how anyone can make estimates, other than SNP testing of carbon dated ancient remains.

Otzi
10-25-2012, 03:49 PM
I’m just guessing… I used the same Y-DNA Comparison Utility of Dean McGee for all L223 people and I lowered the mutation rate until all L91 had more than 5300 years as TMRCA with L223. The highest number on the chart was then: 14490 years (Probability 99%).
The age of G2a is assumed to be about 16000 years…
From Wiki (Late Glacial Maximum page): “Sites of human occupation reappear in northern France, Belgium, northwest Germany, and southern Britain between 15,500 to 14,000 years ago”.
I tend to believe that G2a2 split very early from G2a and were among the first to (re)colonize Europe after LGM.

Boed
10-18-2013, 08:34 AM
The youngest about G2a1b clade (L223 +) now called: G2a2 - PF3146 can be followed on our website:
http://www.marres.nl/G2a2.htm

Mobango420
11-27-2013, 07:47 AM
It would be interesting if it were the ancestor of C-V20, but at the moment we are in the dark, unless anyone recognises his haplotype. S07's STR results are in table 3: