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sammyguns
03-07-2015, 10:18 PM
So happy to have found this place! I tested on ancestry.com, then found out about gedmatch, which is awesome. My results are posted below. My question is: is it possible to tell from all those results combined how much Italian I have? It seems to come up a lot. So does Greek, and Middle Eastern. If anyone could take a quick glance and give me some insight as to what they see it would be so helpful. Thank you!

From Ancestory.com:

93% European
5% West Asian
1% Native American
1% Asian

89% - Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Israel
3 % - Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey
2 % - Italy, Greece
2 % - Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Lebanon, Israel
1 % - Spain, Portugal
1 % - Finland, North Russia
1 % - East Asia: Russia, China, North Korea, South Korea, Mongolia, Myanmar (Burma), Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Singapore, Brunei, Palau
1 % - Native American (North, Central or South)

Gedmatch.Com:

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 37.31
2 West_Med 16.63
3 North_Atlantic 14.45
4 Baltic 9.40
5 West_Asian 8.43
6 Red_Sea 6.80
7 Siberian 1.63
8 Amerindian 1.42
9 East_Asian 1.32
10 South_Asian 1.31
11 Northeast_African 1.30


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 4.250240
2 Italian_Jewish @ 8.890208
3 Algerian_Jewish @ 9.567513
4 Sephardic_Jewish @ 9.986801
5 East_Sicilian @ 10.791368
6 Tunisian_Jewish @ 11.474417
7 South_Italian @ 11.718783
8 Libyan_Jewish @ 12.026415
9 Central_Greek @ 12.446823
10 West_Sicilian @ 13.231429
11 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.050773
12 Greek_Thessaly @ 15.928756
13 Cyprian @ 17.221598
14 Tuscan @ 19.749546
15 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.396519
16 Palestinian @ 21.053040
17 Syrian @ 21.080126
18 Jordanian @ 21.529709
19 Samaritan @ 21.630072
20 Tunisian @ 22.074066

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Ashkenazi @ 4.250240


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +25% Ashkenazi +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.107326


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.107326
2 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.177851
3 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi @ 4.250240
4 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish @ 4.276817
5 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi @ 4.538272
6 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.573577
7 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Palestinian @ 5.022287
8 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.144904
9 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Romanian + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.148735
10 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + North_Italian + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.241429
11 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Tuscan + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.254782
12 Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + West_Sicilian + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.293519
13 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Palestinian @ 5.319891
14 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.319974
15 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 5.338138
16 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.396978
17 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.410831
18 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Palestinian + Tuscan @ 5.412264
19 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze @ 5.421360
20 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + West_Sicilian + Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.429908

Done.

Elapsed time 21.5386 seconds.


Kit Num: A282755
Threshold of components set to 1.000
Threshold of method set to 0.25%
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Gedmatch.Com

MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.06
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.34
3 Near_East 13.58
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.86
5 North_African 6.62
6 South_Central_Asian 4.71
7 Austronesian 1.76
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.56
9 South_East_Asian 1.00


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 4.488248
2 Sicilian_West @ 5.871126
3 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 6.162303
4 Sicilian_East @ 6.193862
5 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 6.793041
6 Ashkenazi @ 7.134847
7 Romanian_Jew @ 7.170680
8 Maltese @ 7.184328
9 Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.347486
10 Cretan @ 7.498589
11 French_Jew @ 7.707139
12 Turk_Jew @ 8.068275
13 Italian_Jew @ 8.669188
14 Sephardic_Jew @ 8.713419
15 Sicilian_Center @ 8.946286
16 Greek_Phokaia @ 9.056873
17 Italian_South @ 9.493237
18 Greek @ 10.203648
19 Greek_Athens @ 10.330695
20 Moroccan_Jew @ 10.585737

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Peloponnesos +50% Moroccan_Jew @ 3.880119


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jew +25% Samaritian +25% South_German @ 2.608853


Using 4 populations approximation:

BalkanKiwi
03-07-2015, 10:31 PM
Welcome. First of all, what's your known ancestry on paper?

sammyguns
03-07-2015, 10:37 PM
Welcome. First of all, what's your known ancestry on paper?

Thanks!
All I heard from family was Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, and possibly German. I would say mostly Eastern European according to what I was told.

BalkanKiwi
03-07-2015, 11:13 PM
Thanks!
All I heard from family was Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, and possibly German. I would say mostly Eastern European according to what I was told.

That probably explains your 89% score on Ancestry. The calculators can be impossible to understand if someone has nothing to compare them to. A country might represent a region rather than the exact spot an ancestor was from. The Ashkenazi probably represents your Eastern European ancestry. There are others here way more knowledgable than me and can make sense of your results better but I hope that helps :)

sammyguns
03-07-2015, 11:17 PM
That probably explains your 89% score on Ancestry. The calculators can be impossible to understand if someone has nothing to compare them to. A country might represent a region rather than the exact spot an ancestor was from. The Ashkenazi probably represents your Eastern European ancestry. There are others here way more knowledgable than me and can make sense of your results better but I hope that helps :)

I appreciate the insight! If anyone else can chime in, that'd be great too! :)

Anglecynn
03-07-2015, 11:19 PM
Might be difficult to tell exactly, because southern Italians are fairly close to Ashkenazic Jews, and you have a pretty close fit to that population.

Makes sense with regard to your known ancestry as well. :)

BalkanKiwi
03-07-2015, 11:33 PM
I appreciate the insight! If anyone else can chime in, that'd be great too! :)

You could always run a Eurogenes Jtest on Gedmatch to have a better look at how much Ashkenazi you might potentially have and if it appears in the oracles.

sammyguns
03-08-2015, 04:03 AM
You could always run a Eurogenes Jtest on Gedmatch to have a better look at how much Ashkenazi you might potentially have and if it appears in the oracles.

Here is Eurogenes Jtest. Any help interpreting would be great!


Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 5.90%
EAST_EURO 0.92%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.36%
ATLANTIC 5.82%
WEST_MED 10.73%
ASHKENAZI 26.83%
EAST_MED 21.08%
WEST_ASIAN 5.53%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 9.99%
SOUTH_ASIAN 0.73%
EAST_AFRICAN 0.17%
EAST_ASIAN 0.61%
SIBERIAN 2.32%
WEST_AFRICAN -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.44
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 20.61
3 GR 22.35
4 Tuscan 23.94
5 North_Italian 26.58
6 RO 27.01
7 Serbian 28.79
8 TR 29.83
9 PT 29.96
10 IQ 31.8
11 ES 32
12 AT 32.27
13 HU 32.49
14 Samaritan 32.84
15 Assyrian 32.99
16 Mandean 33.11
17 FR 33.45
18 Moroccan 33.47
19 Algerian 33.75
20 Armenian 33.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98% AJ + 2% Nganassan @ 3.81
2 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Koryak @ 3.83
3 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Chukchi @ 3.85
4 92.8% AJ + 7.2% Tuscan @ 4.04
5 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Selkup @ 4.08
6 92% AJ + 8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.08
7 94.6% AJ + 5.4% PT @ 4.11
8 97.2% AJ + 2.8% KZ @ 4.12
9 96.8% AJ + 3.2% Bedouin @ 4.12
10 94.2% AJ + 5.8% North_Italian @ 4.13
11 93.5% AJ + 6.5% GR @ 4.17
12 95.6% AJ + 4.4% Samaritan @ 4.18
13 95.5% AJ + 4.5% ES @ 4.18
14 95.7% AJ + 4.3% Algerian @ 4.18
15 96.1% AJ + 3.9% Druze @ 4.22
16 96% AJ + 4% FR @ 4.22
17 96.7% AJ + 3.3% West_&_Central_German @ 4.26
18 96.8% AJ + 3.2% English @ 4.26
19 96.8% AJ + 3.2% NL @ 4.27
20 96.4% AJ + 3.6% Moroccan @ 4.27

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 AJ @ 4.787768
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 22.757313
3 GR @ 24.912769
4 Tuscan @ 26.456413
5 North_Italian @ 29.514755
6 RO @ 30.147343
7 Serbian @ 32.183689
8 PT @ 33.579460
9 TR @ 33.692226
10 Algerian @ 35.127869
11 Moroccan @ 35.572823
12 IQ @ 35.742626
13 ES @ 35.968899
14 AT @ 36.422997
15 HU @ 36.566742
16 Samaritan @ 37.585171
17 Assyrian @ 37.692295
18 Mandean @ 37.757935
19 FR @ 37.833641
20 Armenian @ 38.639317

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +50% AJ @ 4.787768


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% AJ +25% AJ +25% AJ @ 4.787768


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 AJ + AJ + AJ + AJ @ 4.787768
2 AJ + AJ + AJ + South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 5.991060
3 AJ + AJ + AJ + Tuscan @ 6.594939
4 AJ + AJ + AJ + GR @ 6.614944
5 AJ + AJ + AJ + North_Italian @ 7.434742
6 AJ + AJ + AJ + RO @ 8.137342
7 AJ + AJ + AJ + PT @ 8.223308
8 AJ + AJ + AJ + Serbian @ 8.465165
9 AJ + AJ + AJ + Algerian @ 8.532087
10 AJ + AJ + AJ + ES @ 8.918880
11 AJ + AJ + AJ + Moroccan @ 8.932288
12 AJ + AJ + AJ + IQ @ 9.190161
13 AJ + AJ + AJ + Samaritan @ 9.221086
14 AJ + AJ + AJ + TR @ 9.257181
15 AJ + AJ + AJ + AT @ 9.339265
16 AJ + AJ + AJ + FR @ 9.452768
17 AJ + AJ + AJ + HU @ 9.471747
18 AJ + AJ + AJ + Druze @ 10.080699
19 AJ + AJ + AJ + Mandean @ 10.088879
20 AJ + AJ + AJ + Assyrian @ 10.121754

BalkanKiwi
03-08-2015, 05:33 AM
You have a small Eastern European value for someone with apparent known Eastern European ancestry. Probably represented in the Ashkenazi.

Roaring
03-08-2015, 11:55 AM
Thanks!
All I heard from family was Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, and possibly German. I would say mostly Eastern European according to what I was told.

You mean Russian, Ukrainian etc as in Ashkenazi from thoose places or as natives? Because your result look very different from natives and very similar to Ashkenazi.

sammyguns
03-08-2015, 01:44 PM
You mean Russian, Ukrainian etc as in Ashkenazi from thoose places or as natives? Because your result look very different from natives and very similar to Ashkenazi.

See that's where it gets murky for me. I didn't come from a very close knit family and didn't have grandparents to ask anything. My parents weren't very open about who we were, but I remember specifically hearing our family was from those places.

So what this means is that my ancestry is Ashkenazi (which I never knew was it's own ethnic group) that settled in those places?

As far as the Italian stuff... is that showing up by accident because Ashkenazi are similar, or did I have some Italian ancestors way back when? I'm interested in knowing if the 11% that's not Ashkenazi (according to Ancestry.com) is shown in the other tests more accurately?

Anglecynn
03-08-2015, 01:57 PM
See that's where it gets murky for me. I didn't come from a very close knit family and didn't have grandparents to ask anything. My parents weren't very open about who we were, but I remember specifically hearing our family was from those places.

So what this means is that my ancestry is Ashkenazi (which I never knew was it's own ethnic group) that settled in those places?

As far as the Italian stuff... is that showing up by accident because Ashkenazi are similar, or did I have some Italian ancestors way back when? I'm interested in knowing if the 11% that's not Ashkenazi (according to Ancestry.com) is shown in the other tests more accurately?

Looking at your results you seem basically 100% Ashkenazi i think. :)

So unless you have a recent paper trail to Italy or something similar, then probably not.

sammyguns
03-08-2015, 02:06 PM
Looking at your results you seem basically 100% Ashkenazi i think. :)

So unless you have a recent paper trail to Italy or something similar, then probably not.

Interesting. So why did the other stuff come up then? Just chance?

Anglecynn
03-08-2015, 02:18 PM
Interesting. So why did the other stuff come up then? Just chance?

Probably the best way to tell is to find some people who are of similar ancestry and see what results they get, as the ancestry predictions generally aren't 100% accurate due to overlapping of populations and various things.

Although i don't yet have ancestry.com genetic results, i'd probably come up as some combination of Irish, English, Scottish etc and maybe other nearby populations that wouldn't necessarily match my known genealogical ancestry - because if multiple populations are pretty similar it would be more difficult to say if someone was 50% of each or 75% of one or 100% of one because there's no absolute genetic border really for similar populations. So if you only get the Italian on ancestry.com and you have no genealogical ties or solid genetic matches it would be best to compare to others who know they are 7/8 Ashkenazic 1/8 Italian, or entirely one or the other, to see how their results compare to yours.

sammyguns
03-08-2015, 02:34 PM
Probably the best way to tell is to find some people who are of similar ancestry and see what results they get, as the ancestry predictions generally aren't 100% accurate due to overlapping of populations and various things.

Although i don't yet have ancestry.com genetic results, i'd probably come up as some combination of Irish, English, Scottish etc and maybe other nearby populations that wouldn't necessarily match my known genealogical ancestry - because if multiple populations are pretty similar it would be more difficult to say if someone was 50% of each or 75% of one or 100% of one because there's no absolute genetic border really for similar populations. So if you only get the Italian on ancestry.com and you have no genealogical ties or solid genetic matches it would be best to compare to others who know they are 7/8 Ashkenazic 1/8 Italian, or entirely one or the other, to see how their results compare to yours.

But I think I was getting Italian on all the other ones too --- unless I am reading them wrong? (They are all posted in this thread).

Roaring
03-08-2015, 09:20 PM
But I think I was getting Italian on all the other ones too --- unless I am reading them wrong? (They are all posted in this thread).

Sicilians and S. Italians are kinda similar to Jews in some tests, but as you can see on Jtest, which were made specifically for people with jewish ancestry you're much closer to Jews than to Italians, you can also do 23andme test, they are very good at separating Italians and Jews.

John Doe
03-08-2015, 09:21 PM
Sicilians and S. Italians are kinda similar to Jews in some tests, but as you can see on Jtest, which were made specifically for people with jewish ancestry you're much closer to Jews than to Italians, you can also do 23andme test, they are very good at separating Italians and Jews.

On Davidski's newest Eurogenes K8 I plot in the south Italian cluster, and just outside the Ashkenazi Jewish cluster, I'm a full Ashkenazi Jew. Thing is, I'm not entirely certain this seeming similarity is due to common ancestry, perhaps it might be that Ashkenazi Jews share genetic similarity due to ancient admixture with similar populations such as Greeks, which then cause AJs to plot close to Sicilians and south Italians, as well as Cretans and Aegean islanders.

3981398239833984

sammyguns
03-08-2015, 09:35 PM
Sicilians and S. Italians are kinda similar to Jews in some tests, but as you can see on Jtest, which were made specifically for people with jewish ancestry you're much closer to Jews than to Italians, you can also do 23andme test, they are very good at separating Italians and Jews.

Thanks! Where can I find that test?

Roaring
03-08-2015, 11:39 PM
Thanks! Where can I find that test?

https://www.23andme.com

Agamemnon
03-09-2015, 03:56 AM
Judging from your K13 results, I'd say it's pretty clear you're Jewish:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 4.250240
2 Italian_Jewish @ 8.890208
3 Algerian_Jewish @ 9.567513
4 Sephardic_Jewish @ 9.986801
5 East_Sicilian @ 10.791368
6 Tunisian_Jewish @ 11.474417
7 South_Italian @ 11.718783
8 Libyan_Jewish @ 12.026415


All of these Jewish groups form one cluster, they're a single population in a sense and they're all closely related to one another (this is clear going off uniparental lineages, diseases, IBD sharing, etc). The sole fact that all these Jewish groups show up is a strong hint towards Jewish ancestry.
Do you know your Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups?

John Doe
03-09-2015, 05:44 AM
Judging from your K13 results, I'd say it's pretty clear you're Jewish:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi @ 4.250240
2 Italian_Jewish @ 8.890208
3 Algerian_Jewish @ 9.567513
4 Sephardic_Jewish @ 9.986801
5 East_Sicilian @ 10.791368
6 Tunisian_Jewish @ 11.474417
7 South_Italian @ 11.718783
8 Libyan_Jewish @ 12.026415


All of these Jewish groups form one cluster, they're a single population in a sense and they're all closely related to one another (this is clear going off uniparental lineages, diseases, IBD sharing, etc). The sole fact that all these Jewish groups show up is a strong hint towards Jewish ancestry.
Do you know your Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups?

One can assume that his paternal and maternal lineages would befit those of Ashkenazi ancestry, which means, usually those common to the Mediterranean such as J2, J1 or E-M35 paternally or those exclusive AJ lineages maternally (such as K1a9).

seferhabahir
03-09-2015, 07:56 AM
Here is Eurogenes Jtest. Any help interpreting would be great!


Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 5.90%
EAST_EURO 0.92%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 9.36%
ATLANTIC 5.82%
WEST_MED 10.73%
ASHKENAZI 26.83%
EAST_MED 21.08%
WEST_ASIAN 5.53%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 9.99%
SOUTH_ASIAN 0.73%
EAST_AFRICAN 0.17%
EAST_ASIAN 0.61%
SIBERIAN 2.32%
WEST_AFRICAN -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.44
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 20.61
3 GR 22.35
4 Tuscan 23.94
5 North_Italian 26.58
6 RO 27.01
7 Serbian 28.79
8 TR 29.83
9 PT 29.96
10 IQ 31.8
11 ES 32
12 AT 32.27
13 HU 32.49
14 Samaritan 32.84
15 Assyrian 32.99
16 Mandean 33.11
17 FR 33.45
18 Moroccan 33.47
19 Algerian 33.75
20 Armenian 33.84


Here are my Eurogenes jtest results

SOUTH_BALTIC 4.28%
EAST_EURO 4.43%
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 5.63%
ATLANTIC 6.90%
WEST_MED 8.44%
ASHKENAZI 28.99%
EAST_MED 24.14%
WEST_ASIAN 5.90%
MIDDLE_EASTERN 9.45%
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 0.06%
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 1.79%
WEST_AFRICAN -

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 5.05
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 22.63
3 GR 23.64
4 Tuscan 27
5 RO 28.84
6 North_Italian 29.64
7 TR 30.14
8 Serbian 30.79
9 IQ 31.52
10 Mandean 32.26
11 Assyrian 32.37
12 Samaritan 32.42
13 PT 33.31
14 Armenian 33.58
15 Kurdish 33.91
16 Druze 34.22
17 IR 34.28
18 AT 34.84
19 HU 34.91
20 ES 35.1

I'm 100% Ashkenazi, with ancestors that lived in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Latvia, and Germany). Presumably none of those ancestors are ethnic Russians, Ukranians, Belarussians, Poles, Latvians, or Germans. They are all Ashkenazi Jews. It is pretty evident that your case is almost exactly the same (with some very slight variation in autosomal makeup), and that you would almost have to be 100% Ashkenazi, which sometimes is going to have an autosomal resemblance to Sicilians, Greeks, and Southern Italians. It would be my guess that all 32 of your great-great-great-grandparents were Eastern European Ashkenazi (if you even really had that many, as there might be several cousin and double cousin marriages in there somewhere).

sammyguns
03-11-2015, 05:04 PM
Thanks everyone for the helpful posts! Very interesting stuff. I thought the ancestry.com DNA test was going to be all I need, and I wonder how many walk away thinking that explains everything. I still am curious why they said 89% AJ. 11% other is a big number to me. That's the part that confuses me still, but I guess if you guys are reading the other results and thinking they are more accurate, I will listen to you!