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Webb
03-17-2015, 01:00 AM
I noticed that Alex Williamson still has ZZ11 above U152 and DF27 on his Big Tree. I seem to recall Razyn posting about this somewhere, but I can't find the thread. So my question for anyone who knows, is this placement holding up? Are the results coming in for BigY kits for DF27 and U152, confirming this placement?

Petr
03-17-2015, 08:05 AM
ZZ11_1 = ChrY:22286799 C->G. BigY and FGC results in YFull P312 group shows positive results for all U152, DF27 and some P312* results and negative for L21 and DF99. There is one exception - this is one DF27 with ZZ11_1 negative: http://www.yfull.com/share/yreport/731a902cb1e47b1f00602a8e2a6b21c3/

MitchellSince1893
03-30-2015, 06:37 PM
I may have posted this before but here is my stats for Z11_1


ChrY position: 22286799 (+strand)
Reads: 323
Position data: 257C 66G
Weight for C: 0.793926959376
Weight for G: 0.206073040624
Probability of error: 0.29143128889 (0<->1)
Sample allele: C
Reference (hg19) allele: C

If I recall, Z11_1 is odd in that you are looking for is some G percentage as opposed to the typical 90% or higher. In my case I have 79.4% for the reference allele C, and 20.6% reads for the derived G allelle.

lgmayka
03-30-2015, 11:07 PM
My cousin is R1b-Z49* (Z49 < L2 < U152) , and YFull says he has:
---
Sample: #YF02497 (R-L2)
ChrY position: 22286799 (+strand)
Reads: 396
Position data: 396C
Weight for C: 1.0
Probability of error: 0.0 (0<->1)
Sample allele: C
Reference (hg19) allele: C
---

Note that Z49 was a no-call for him, so YFull lists him merely as R-L2. FTDNA's Sanger sequencing found him Z49+ .

breckenheimer
04-04-2015, 09:19 PM
ZZ11, being upstream from U152 and DF27, but not L21, mirrors a geographical and possibly linguistic divide between continental and insular P312. Many scholars are of the opinion that Celtic languages are divided between Continental Celtic and Insular Celtic. Although on the continent, the Breton language is Insular, having been brought to Brittany by Britons fleeing the Saxon invasions. So this also fits the scenario as Brittany is largely L21, one of the few such places in continental Europe.

razyn
04-16-2015, 03:00 AM
Since Billy Webb started a thread about ZZ11, and I've posted about it two other places but not here, I think I'll cite one that cites the other (if you care enough to look) and then go do something more concrete, like restore an old mandola I keep putting off.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4064-YFull-s-New-Rate-Constant-for-Y-Chromosome-SNPs-based-on-Full-Sequence-Data&p=79456&viewfull=1#post79456

razyn
02-02-2021, 03:38 PM
Since Billy Webb started a thread about ZZ11, and I've posted about it two other places but not here, I think I'll cite one that cites the other (if you care enough to look) and then go do something more concrete, like restore an old mandola I keep putting off.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4064-YFull-s-New-Rate-Constant-for-Y-Chromosome-SNPs-based-on-Full-Sequence-Data&p=79456&viewfull=1#post79456

This may be a silly remark, but Akhenaten and Tut were a long time ago, so maybe looking at their STRs (finally released, after all these years) one might surmise that they were ZZ11. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22861-Maternal-and-Paternal-Lineages-in-King-Tutankhamun-s-Family-(Gad-et-al-2020)&p=742955&viewfull=1#post742955

Webb
02-02-2021, 04:38 PM
This may be a silly remark, but Akhenaton and Tut were a long time ago, so maybe looking at their STRs (finally released, after all these years) one might surmise that they were ZZ11. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22861-Maternal-and-Paternal-Lineages-in-King-Tutankhamun-s-Family-(Gad-et-al-2020)&p=742955&viewfull=1#post742955

A very wild turn of events!!!

MitchellSince1893
06-17-2021, 06:25 AM
Maybe this is old news but it’s new to me (or I lost those brain cells)

Apparently DF27 and U152 have a brother under ZZ11

BY140446. 6 samples total of which 3 are from Scotland, 1 from France, 1 from N. Ireland, 1 unknown origin.

Webb
06-17-2021, 01:25 PM
Maybe this is old news but it’s new to me (or I lost those brain cells)

Apparently DF27 and U152 have a brother under ZZ11

BY140446. 6 samples total of which 3 are from Scotland, 1 from France, 1 from N. Ireland, 1 unknown origin.

Here is a link to the P312** thread where Goldenhind posted in post#211 about the discovery of BY140446, however, I don't think at that time it was recognized as being below ZZ11.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1152-P312**-(the-real-deal)-(P312-U152-L21-DF27-DF19-L238-DF99-)/page22

When I ran a Google search on it, the website Genetic Homeland shows it being a child of ZZ11.

MitchellSince1893
06-17-2021, 03:19 PM
I guess I did “loose those brain cells” as I commented about it here
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1152-P312**-(the-real-deal)-(P312-U152-L21-DF27-DF19-L238-DF99-)&p=667924&viewfull=1#post667924

Webb
06-17-2021, 03:36 PM
I guess I did “loose the brain cells” as I commented about it here
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1152-P312**-(the-real-deal)-(P312-U152-L21-DF27-DF19-L238-DF99-)&p=667924&viewfull=1#post667924

Apparently I have lost a few also, because I posted in this thread but have no recollection.

razyn
06-17-2021, 05:14 PM
I think I'll... go do something more concrete, like restore an old mandola I keep putting off.

In case y'all are wondering what happened about THAT, six years ago: I did go ahead and restore it, and have been playing the thing during the recent, not-quite-over-with pandemic. It's a 1918 model, so it has had its 100th birthday in the meanwhile. In this photo, the wine bottle (from Mandola's Italian Restaurant, in Austin TX) is a sight gag.
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razyn
06-18-2021, 01:06 PM
Here is a link to the P312** thread where Goldenhind posted in post#211 about the discovery of BY140446, however, I don't think at that time it was recognized as being below ZZ11.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1152-P312**-(the-real-deal)-(P312-U152-L21-DF27-DF19-L238-DF99-)/page22

When I ran a Google search on it, the website Genetic Homeland shows it being a child of ZZ11.

I just looked at a couple of the "refresh my brain cells" sources. The FTDNA Haplotree is less complete in this area than the P312 part of the R1b (M343) Big Picture as drawn (and fairly frequently revised) by Tiger MikeWww. I normally see the latter on a Facebook group for M343; but it's such a big picture, it's hard to blow it up enough to see the details, and have them not go too pixellated to read. Nevertheless, I did that (blew it up) today; and to the extent that I can still read it, it seems to me there's another SNP (older, ergo more important -- to the Big Picture) missing from the FTDNA Haplotree. Below P312, but above ZZ11 and its "brother" clades DF99 and ZZ37, there is Z40481. Is anybody talking about that one? Is any aDNA research facility (Reich, Mainz, Willerslev, whoever) looking for it, yet? Would the 1240K chip test be likely to notice it? Adding grandpa Z40481 would change some of our brother clades to first cousins, and so on.

I'm sure these questions could be resolved with a little simple searching; but I didn't get enough sleep, so I'm not going to try, right now. I will paste in a little detail clipped from Tiger Mike's artwork, to show what I mean. (Note that BY140446 is displayed, all by itself, directly below ZZ11.)

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