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ÁNLEIFR
03-25-2015, 04:18 PM
Hi, I have a question about Ashkenazi Jews. Since they are R1a that means they have the same common ancestor as the rest of R1a, so does anyone know if that ancestor was Abraham? If not, how do the Ashkenazi Jews fit as Jews but are R1a, any thoughts?

ÁNLEIFR
03-25-2015, 04:29 PM
Here is a link that is interesting concerning this:

https://sites.google.com/site/levitedna/origins-of-r1a1a-ashkenazi-levites/2014-klyosov-article-on-jewish-dna-genealogy

seferhabahir
03-25-2015, 06:04 PM
The analysis in the article you posted proposes that the biblical Abraham looks like an amalgam of many different haplogroups such as J1, J2, and R1a where there is an identifiable split between Jewish and Arab populations all around the same time (4000 years ago). It might even be true for R1b and R2a as well since there are Jewish and Arab populations there as well. I'm not sure I really understand your question. Is it about R1a or about Ashkenazi Jews or about biblical lineage?

lgmayka
03-25-2015, 06:59 PM
Hi, I have a question about Ashkenazi Jews. Since they are R1a
That is phrased incorrectly. Roughly half of Ashkenazi Levite men belong to the R1a haplogroup.

ADW_1981
03-25-2015, 07:27 PM
Better question, is there really any link between the Ashkenazi Levite R1a-Z93 and Arab Z93? The latter looks awfully Iranian/Indian. It appears countries like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and UAE have had substantial input from South Asia/Iran region.

ÁNLEIFR
03-25-2015, 07:52 PM
Sorry for the vagueness of the question and the incorrect stating. Yes, not all Ashkenazi Levite are R1a and yes, there is the question of how could three different haplogroups come from one person and which haplogroup was he and where did his haplogroup come from. I have the same question pertaining to Noah and sons as well although they were a few generations before Abraham so there is more time for mutation. The article seems to dicipher that the "Aryans" of the time period swept down across the Mesopotamian area around the time and spread their R1a, thus generalizing that Abraham "could have" had R1a. I guess my question is more along the lines, where did the Ashkenazi get their R1a from? Isn't Abraham descended from Shem and R1a from Japheth?

Tomasso29
03-25-2015, 08:21 PM
Better question, is there really any link between the Ashkenazi Levite R1a-Z93 and Arab Z93? The latter looks awfully Iranian/Indian. It appears countries like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and UAE have had substantial input from South Asia/Iran region.

Not sure so much about Iranian but I'm assuming the Indian R1a in Arabs would most likely be positive to L657. How common is L657- in South Asia?

newtoboard
03-25-2015, 11:03 PM
Not sure so much about Iranian but I'm assuming the Indian R1a in Arabs would most likely be positive to L657. How common is L657- in South Asia?

Fairly common enough. Z2124/Z2123+ lineages as well as smaller branches of Z93+ are present.

Not sure why L657+ is often considered South Asian or Indo-Aryan like in character. It is present in decent numbers in Iran and imo L567+ represents the southern migrations out of Andronovo ie West Iranian speakers, Indo-Aryan, Dardic and Nuristani speakers while Z2123+ is the lineage that represented East Iranian speakers.

newtoboard
03-25-2015, 11:08 PM
Better question, is there really any link between the Ashkenazi Levite R1a-Z93 and Arab Z93? The latter looks awfully Iranian/Indian. It appears countries like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and UAE have had substantial input from South Asia/Iran region.

While Z2122+ appears to be most "European" like Z93+ lineage (it is absent in large parts of South Asia, Central Asia and Iran and present in large parts of Anatolia and Europe) it is still present in Iran and there was already a paper (that had a good amount of discussion on here) that showed Levite Z2122+ probably made its way into the Levite gene pool from an Iranian, Azeri, or Kurdish source. A Scythian/Cimmerian-> Iran-> Levite path makes the most sense.

Not sure why almost any R1a would look non Iranian or Indian like when just about every branch of Z93+ is present in Iran and India (besides what I mentioned above).

parasar
03-26-2015, 02:55 AM
Fairly common enough. Z2124/Z2123+ lineages as well as smaller branches of Z93+ are present.

Not sure why L657+ is often considered South Asian or Indo-Aryan like in character. It is present in decent numbers in Iran and imo L567+ represents the southern migrations out of Andronovo ie West Iranian speakers, Indo-Aryan, Dardic and Nuristani speakers while Z2123+ is the lineage that represented East Iranian speakers.

Of course depends on what we mean by decent.
Iran South(#) 15/408 3.7 %
Iran North(#) 3/403 0.7%
So about 2% overall in Iran.
Numerically I suspect the ratio of non-South Asian to South Asian L657 is something like 1:100.

The gradient in Iran is north to south (increasing), same as on the Indus. To me it looks likely to have a southern Indus origin.

Underhill et al. speculated that L657 was related to the "early urbanization within the Indus Valley."

Tomasso29
03-26-2015, 03:06 AM
Fairly common enough. Z2124/Z2123+ lineages as well as smaller branches of Z93+ are present.

What is enough?


Not sure why L657+ is often considered South Asian or Indo-Aryan like in character. It is present in decent numbers in Iran and imo L567+ represents the southern migrations out of Andronovo ie West Iranian speakers, Indo-Aryan, Dardic and Nuristani speakers while Z2123+ is the lineage that represented East Iranian speakers.

The judge is still out on Andronovo so I would not go that far. As far as L657 goes, it's mostly observed among South Asians and a smaller number among West and Central Asians (Among West Asians it's mostly observed in Gulf Arabs). We've actually seen a similar pattern of this in R2a-L295 but obviously on a smaller scale since R2a in general is much less than R1a.

lgmayka
03-26-2015, 03:29 AM
While Z2122+ appears to be most "European" like Z93+ lineage (it is absent in large parts of South Asia, Central Asia and Iran and present in large parts of Anatolia and Europe) it is still present in Iran and there was already a paper (that had a good amount of discussion on here) that showed Levite Z2122+ probably made its way into the Levite gene pool from an Iranian, Azeri, or Kurdish source.
You mean this paper (http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131217/ncomms3928/full/ncomms3928.html). It studied M582 (phylogenetically equivalent to CTS6) (http://yfull.com/tree/R-CTS6/) and found:
---
Among 3,739 Near Eastern samples (303 R1a-M198), R1a-M582 was identified in various populations, with the highest frequency occurring within Iranians collected from the southeastern Kerman population who self-identified as Persians, northwestern Iranian Azeri and in Cilician Anatolian Kurds, at 2.86%, 2.50% and 2.83%, respectively (Table 1).
---

parasar
03-26-2015, 04:11 AM
You mean this paper (http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/131217/ncomms3928/full/ncomms3928.html). It studied M582 (phylogenetically equivalent to CTS6) (http://yfull.com/tree/R-CTS6/) and found:
---
Among 3,739 Near Eastern samples (303 R1a-M198), R1a-M582 was identified in various populations, with the highest frequency occurring within Iranians collected from the southeastern Kerman population who self-identified as Persians, northwestern Iranian Azeri and in Cilician Anatolian Kurds, at 2.86%, 2.50% and 2.83%, respectively (Table 1).
---

Yes that's the one. I have had problems with paper from day one, as they found M582 where there is historical evidence of Turkic (Seljuk Khazar) influence to posit a non-Turkic origin for M582.

Roserover
03-26-2015, 01:59 PM
R1a of Askenazi need not to trace back to middle east. Askenazi origintes from the central asia of 12nd century
Harzar, accepted Judaism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 02:27 PM
R1a of Askenazi need not to trace back to middle east. Askenazi origintes from the central asia of 12nd century
A branch of Mongol Harzar accepted Judaism.

Here we go with the Khazar theory again... Am I the only one here who noticed that the more we try to uncover the Khazars' genetic legacy in Ashkenazi Jews, the scarcer the results tend to be?

Roserover
03-26-2015, 03:11 PM
Sorry for the vagueness of the question and the incorrect stating. Yes, not all Ashkenazi Levite are R1a and yes, there is the question of how could three different haplogroups come from one person and which haplogroup was he and where did his haplogroup come from. I have the same question pertaining to Noah and sons as well although they were a few generations before Abraham so there is more time for mutation. The article seems to dicipher that the "Aryans" of the time period swept down across the Mesopotamian area around the time and spread their R1a, thus generalizing that Abraham "could have" had R1a. I guess my question is more along the lines, where did the Ashkenazi get their R1a from? Isn't Abraham descended from Shem and R1a from Japheth?

More science is helpful for you

Jean M
03-26-2015, 03:52 PM
I have the same question pertaining to Noah and sons as well although they were a few generations before Abraham ... Isn't Abraham descended from Shem and R1a from Japheth?

The story of Noah and his sons is not history. It is myth. It does tell us things, but these things are not exactly genealogical. It gives us an idea of the peoples the Hebrews knew at the time that they borrowed the story of the flood from the Babylonians, and the relationships (linguistic perhaps) that they perceived between them. See http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/originstories.shtml

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 03:54 PM
The story of Noah and his sons is not history. It is myth. It does tell us things, but these things are not exactly genealogical. It gives us an idea of the peoples the Hebrews knew at the time, and the relationships (linguistic perhaps) that they perceived between them. See http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/originstories.shtml#Noah

Perceived is a key word here of course, but I'd go as far as to say that the perception wasn't that of the Hebrews but rather that of the historical Israelites, if not the Judeans themselves.

Jean M
03-26-2015, 04:09 PM
Perceived is a key word here of course, but I'd go as far as to say that the perception wasn't that of the Hebrews but rather that of the historical Israelites, if not the Judeans themselves.

My apologies for the incorrect terminology.

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 04:12 PM
My apologies for the incorrect terminology.

No apology needed, I agree entirely with what you wrote ;)

parasar
03-26-2015, 04:38 PM
Here we go with the Khazar theory again... Am I the only one here who noticed that the more we try to uncover the Khazars' genetic legacy in Ashkenazi Jews, the scarcer the results tend to be?

I have yet to see any Khazar descended Jew tested, let alone any ancient Khazar Jewish remains. That would be one way to resolve this issue.
The issue to me is not where M582 originated, but whether the M582 in modern Levites came via the Khazars.

1. We know for certain that many Khazars were Jews.
2. We also know that Seljuk of the court of Khazar was likely a Jew from the names of his four sons.
3. We know that last reports put some Khazars in Spain and some in Kiev.
4. It appears that no non-Ashkenazi non-Levite Jew is M582+.

Of the 10 non-Ashkenazi R1a-M582 individuals, two were from the North African Algerian Jewish community, six belonged to Spanish expulsion descendent communities of Slovenia, Turkey and Bulgaria, and two were from individuals reporting their last known parental origin as Israel. Significantly, all eight individuals for whom caste information was available self-identified as Levites. Caste information was unavailable for the two Bulgarian individuals...
Moreover, out of nine R1a-M198 non-Ashkenazi Levites, eight were R1a-M582...
all Ashkenazi Levite R1a samples belonged to haplogroup R1a-M582...
While R1a-M582 occurs at 64.9% (63/97) among Ashkenazi Levites, it comprises just 15.7% (8/51) of the non-Ashkenazi Levite paternal gene pool (Table 2). Among non-Ashkenazi Jews, R1a-M582 was observed only in Levites, and the observed sub-haplogroup shares the same STR signature as that seen in Ashkenazi Levites....
Ashkenazi Levites must have repeatedly and episodically introgressed into non-Ashkenazi communities, maintaining their Levite status while abandoning their Ashkenazi affiliation.


Since it may be difficult to locate any ancient Khazar Jew remains, which modern populations could provide us a clue?
Kiev cf 1106AD Khazar Johanan ben Zekhareya
Toledo about the same time Khazar refugees are mentioned by Abraham ibn Daud.
Other Khazars, under Rus and later Mongol onslaught, are reported to have escaped to the Crimea, Khwarzim, Darbend, etc.

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 04:46 PM
I have yet to see any Khazar descended Jew tested, let alone any ancient Khazar Jewish remains. That would be one way to resolve this issue.
The issue to me is not where M582 originated, but whether the M582 in modern Levites came via the Khazars.

1. We know for certain that many Khazars were Jews.
2. We also know that Seljuk of the court of Khazar was likely a Jew from the names of his four sons.
3. We know that last reports put some Khazars in Spain and some in Kiev.
4. It appears that no non-Ashkenazi non-Levite Jew is M582+.


Since it may be difficult to locate any ancient Khazar Jew remains, which modern populations could provide us a clue?
Kiev cf 1106AD Khazar Johanan ben Zekhareya
Toledo about the same time Khazar refugees are mentioned by Abraham ibn Daud.
Other Khazars, under Rus and later Mongol onslaught, are reported to have escaped to the Crimea, Khwarzim, Darbend, etc.

It relates to the common problem we have nowadays, namely that some are all too eager to use contemporary populations to simulate past demographic events. As far as R1a-CTS6/M582 goes, a Khazar origin is still possible though it isn't exactly likely to say the least, especially considering the paucity of R1a-M582 in North Caucasian and Turkic-speaking groups, though once more stumble we on the automatic assumption that such populations are valuable Khazar proxies. My personal hunch is that we won't be able to confirm or infirm a Khazar origin for R1a-M582 as long as it doesn't show up in ancient remains.

If I had to guess, I'd say the odds for the non-Levite Ashkenazi R1a-Z2123 cluster being Khazar in origin are slightly higher, but again it's not that likely to begin with.

ÁNLEIFR
03-26-2015, 05:19 PM
The story of Noah and his sons is not history. It is myth. It does tell us things, but these things are not exactly genealogical. It gives us an idea of the peoples the Hebrews knew at the time that they borrowed the story of the flood from the Babylonians, and the relationships (linguistic perhaps) that they perceived between them. See http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/originstories.shtml

I am pretty sure that Genesis was wrote well before the Israelites captivity in Babylon. I see people all the time say that Judaism and Christianity came from the Babylonians but the Babylonian captivity was many generations later. Abraham came from Babylon but he did not take with him their religion, instead he was the start of a new religion which differed dramatically from the Babylonians.

parasar
03-26-2015, 06:20 PM
It relates to the common problem we have nowadays, namely that some are all too eager to use contemporary populations to simulate past demographic events...

Agreed, that is what Rootsi el al. is doing.



As far as R1a-CTS6/M582 goes, a Khazar origin is still possible though it isn't exactly likely to say the least, especially considering the paucity of R1a-M582 in North Caucasian and Turkic-speaking groups, though once more stumble we on the automatic assumption that such populations are valuable Khazar proxies. My personal hunch is that we won't be able to confirm or infirm a Khazar origin for R1a-M582 as long as it doesn't show up in ancient remains...


Khazarian Jews must have been buried, so it is possible we may find some.

There is a Kosarin-Kazarinsky family in Kiev - note 97 http://books.google.com/books?id=hEuIveNl9kcC&pg=PA193
What is the origin of the titles Kagan, Bek, Kosar, etc. seen among the Ashkenazis?

Táltos
03-26-2015, 06:42 PM
Agreed, that is what Rootsi el al. is doing.



Khazarian Jews must have been buried, so it is possible we may find some.

There is a Kosarin-Kazarinsky family in Kiev - note 97 http://books.google.com/books?id=hEuIveNl9kcC&pg=PA193
What is the origin of the titles Kagan, Bek, Kosar, etc. seen among the Ashkenazis?

That last name Kazarinsky gave me a laugh! It seems made up. Anyway good question where are the Khazars? When my brother's results first came in I was told:
We do not and never will have DNA from the graves of the Khazars for comparison. No other explanation was given as to why. This was from a project administrator. Did they have have certain rituals such as cremation that would make bodies impossible to find?

Jean M
03-26-2015, 07:40 PM
I am pretty sure that Genesis was wrote well before the Israelites captivity in Babylon. I see people all the time say that Judaism and Christianity came from the Babylonians but the Babylonian captivity was many generations later. Abraham came from Babylon but he did not take with him their religion, instead he was the start of a new religion which differed dramatically from the Babylonians.

I can't imagine who would think that monotheistic Judaism, let alone the much later Christianity, came from the polytheistic Babylonians. What modern scholars are saying is something much more subtle.


The central question the exilic and postexilic Jews asked themselves was, “Are we still the people of God? After all that has happened, are we still connected to the Israelites of old, with whom God spoke and showed his faithfulness?” Their answer to these questions was to tell their story from the beginning and from their postexilic point of view — which meant editing older works and creating some new ones. The creation of the Hebrew Bible, in other words, is Israel’s self-definition as a nation and the people of God in response to the Babylonian exile.

http://biologos.org/uploads/resources/enns_scholarly_essay3.pdf

We really need to separate matters of faith from matters of fact.

seferhabahir
03-27-2015, 12:09 AM
What is the origin of the titles Kagan, Bek, Kosar, etc. seen among the Ashkenazis?

Kagan is a Russian version of Cohen or Aramaic Kahana (there is no "H" in Russian, so "G" is usually substituted in surnames and place names).

Bek is Yiddish for baker, sometimes found in Russia, similar to surname Beck in German.

Kosar or Koshar means mower or hay-maker in Russian, and probably also Ukranian.

These definitions are from A. Beider's Dictionary of Jewish Surnames from the Russian Empire. The last two are examples of occupational surnames.

seferhabahir
03-27-2015, 12:26 AM
That last name Kazarinsky gave me a laugh! It seems made up.

Not really... Kazarinsky and Kozarinsky are both variations of a toponym that likely means from the village of Kozarna. For example, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Kazurinsky

I don't really think too many Jews took the name of Khazir or Khazer unless they were forced to, perhaps as a punishment from a local official (you can look this one up).

Táltos
03-27-2015, 02:58 AM
Not really... Kazarinsky and Kozarinsky are both variations of a toponym that likely means from the village of Kozarna. For example, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Kazurinsky

I don't really think too many Jews took the name of Khazir or Khazer unless they were forced to, perhaps as a punishment from a local official (you can look this one up).

Now that makes more sense. In the link that parasar gave, it sounded like it was meant to be a version of Khazar not for a village. I didn't think too many Jews had a name associated with being Khazar, so that's partly why it amused me. The other reason it made me laugh is because my last name ends in -ski that is preceded by a place name. So it's like pick any name and add a -ski on the end!

Thanks I forgot about Tim Kazurinsky from SNL. He's a pretty funny guy. :)

parasar
03-27-2015, 03:23 AM
Kagan is a Russian version of Cohen or Aramaic Kahana (there is no "H" in Russian, so "G" is usually substituted in surnames and place names).

...



Ah thanks, makes sense - so if I understand correctly Jews with the Kagan title cannot be Levites.

Humanist
03-27-2015, 03:38 AM
Kagan is a Russian version of Cohen or Aramaic Kahana

From the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon:


khn, khnˀ (kāhen, kāhnā) n.m. priest

Source: Official Aramaic (Achaemenid?) documents from ancient Egypt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

seferhabahir, do you know if there is any link between this word, and the title of "Khan?"

The etymology, according to Wikipedia, is as follows:


According to the book Persian Inscriptions on Indian Monuments Khan has its roots in Sanskrit and persian and Sogdian language word "khana or khanva meaning chief and khan in persian means landlord and chief of town.in old persian Dehkhan (Deh = village) and khan means head or chief also owner of the palace(house).

seferhabahir
03-27-2015, 03:13 PM
seferhabahir, do you know if there is any link between this word, and the title of "Khan?"


I don't have any information about this. There might be a link, but I don't really know.

parasar
03-29-2015, 05:09 PM
From the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon:



Source: Official Aramaic (Achaemenid?) documents from ancient Egypt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

seferhabahir, do you know if there is any link between this word, and the title of "Khan?"

The etymology, according to Wikipedia, is as follows:

Not sure about khan which can mean mine - source.
Deh dih is the common term for village in eastern India. A villager is called dehati.

Humanist
03-29-2015, 05:21 PM
Not sure about khan which can mean mine - source.
Deh dih is the common term for village in eastern India. A villager is called dehati.

Is the word "dehati" related to the word in Farsi? As far as my understanding of the word is concerned, I would define it as meaning "low-life." My parents were both born in Iran, so there are quite the number of Farsi words in my vocabulary. :)

EDIT: I was curious about the word, so I called my father up. He defined it as "country person," "uneducated." Guess my understanding of the term was not quite correct.

parasar
03-29-2015, 06:27 PM
Is the word "dehati" related to the word in Farsi? As far as my understanding of the word is concerned, I would define it as meaning "low-life." My parents were both born in Iran, so there are quite the number of Farsi words in my vocabulary. :)

EDIT: I was curious about the word, so I called my father up. He defined it as "country person," "uneducated." Guess my understanding of the term was not quite correct.

Yes I would think so. The derogatory meaning would also apply to dahyu, dasyu, daku (the kentum form, from which we have the Anglo-Indian dacoit).

Viktor Reznov
11-13-2015, 12:22 AM
I can't imagine who would think that monotheistic Judaism, let alone the much later Christianity, came from the polytheistic Babylonians. What modern scholars are saying is something much more subtle.


The name Mordechai is Babylonian in origin, after the god Marduk. Same for Esther. But as far as Judaism goes, Zoroastrian influence is much bigger than Babylonian. Why do you think it's not likely though? Islam for example, has its origins in the myths of Arabian mythology(pagan).

Anath
03-17-2016, 11:45 PM
My dad's paternal line goes back to Catalonia, Spain hundreds of years ago and apparently they are R1a1a1b2a2b (R-Z2122 / M582).
But it is ironic as a wiki claims a paternal line ancestor was 'a Levite with ancestry to the prophet Samuel', clearly this can't be the case at least paternal line as M582 is indo-iranian and does not fit the Israelite Y-DNA, which Samuel is 'apparently a paternal line descent member of'.. so i believe if converts assimilated into Judaism, they may of taken their wives tribal names (for instance an Iranian convert marrying a Levite woman, easily done during the exodus years for instance, then calling themselves that).
Then down the generations, these stories which are now being skewed by DNA.

My DNA results actually showed a fair rate of Northwest Caucasus/Iranic mix in me but lower Semitic, same for my other paternal cousins,
so in my case maybe many of my recent ancestors were converts (or genetically so) closer to places like Iran, Georgia and the Baltic (my grandma has Litvak/Prussian...) but my dad and paternal grandparents are now deceased so i can't know anymore than i do now.

Agamemnon
03-18-2016, 12:55 AM
My dad's paternal line goes back to Catalonia, Spain hundreds of years ago and apparently they are R1a1a1b2a2b (R-Z2122 / M582).
But it is ironic as a wiki claims a paternal line ancestor was 'a Levite with ancestry to the prophet Samuel', clearly this can't be the case at least paternal line as M582 is indo-iranian and does not fit the Israelite Y-DNA, which Samuel is 'apparently a paternal line descent member of'.. so i believe if converts assimilated into Judaism, they may of taken their wives tribal names (for instance an Iranian convert marrying a Levite woman, easily done during the exodus years for instance, then calling themselves that).
Then down the generations, these stories which are now being skewed by DNA.

My DNA results actually showed a fair rate of Northwest Caucasus/Iranic mix in me but lower Semitic, same for my other paternal cousins,
so in my case maybe many of my recent ancestors were converts (or genetically so) closer to places like Iran, Georgia and the Baltic (my grandma has Litvak/Prussian...) but my dad and paternal grandparents are now deceased so i can't know anymore than i do now.

Well, not necessarily. It's equally possible M582/CTS6's forebears (presumably F1345, its TMRCA fits reasonably well with this time span) arrived in the Levant with the Mitannians, which means this marker could've been present when Proto-Israelite identity emerged in the aftermath of the LBA collapse. In effect, M582 might've been Israelite through and through, but again that's just a theory and I might as well be wrong. It just makes more sense to me than a convert taking on his wife's paternal status, which not only seems outrageous by the era's standards but also quite anomalous because you'd expect Levites to maintain a certain level of endogamy, much like the Kohanim (alright, perhaps a little less fanatic but still, quite unlikely).

Anath
03-18-2016, 04:08 PM
Well i know Levite and Cohen are both important titles but during the exodus, there obviously wouldn't have made as detailed records and family history could of been confused and more embellished then, as when i look at Y-DNA information regarding these 2 genetic line groups, you get a majority Y-DNA for each but then smaller amounts of other Y-DNA types such as e1b1a, J1, J2.. etc, not to say that these Y-DNA isn't also Jewish, as R1a is.. but not all these peoples can claim to descend from the same paternal lineage from biblical people if they belong to different groups..
I was lead to believe that the 12 tribes of Israel (one of which was Levi) all descended from Israel/Jacob, so they logically would have to be the same if the practise is going by the Y-DNA, these differing results means not everyone is the same.
It's not to say that they won't on other ancestral lines, as we only inherit from our direct paternal and maternal lines only, sorry if that was confusing :P

My paternal grandmas side has Cohens but i haven't done that much research to be honest.

Anath
03-23-2016, 01:57 PM
Ok these some information on r1a levites i have obtained:

Considered in isolation (and without reference to the 2013 paper by Rootsi & Behar et al.), the fact that all R1a1a Ashkenazi Levites are descended from a man who lived about 1,000 to 1,500 years ago may seem to be strong support for the hypothesis that the R1a1a Ashkenazi Levite progenitor was a non-Jew who entered the Jewish population at about that time.
Interestingly, however, researchers into two other significant Jewish Y-DNA clusters have found a bottleneck/founder effect at about the same time, which approximately coincides with the time when Jews moved to Ashkenaz (the Rhineland), the cradle of the Ashkenazi population. (A bottleneck refers to a contraction in the population of a Y-DNA cluster, while a founder effect refers to the entrance into a population of a man with a previously unrepresented Y-DNA haplotype; either a bottleneck or a founder effect will be evidenced by a cluster of men sharing a Most Recent Common Ancestor ("MRCA"), with a clear delineation in a time to MRCA from other Y-DNA clusters.)

First, Vitaly Goldberg has calculated the time to an MRCA as 1,050 years plus or minus 80 years for J-L816, another major Ashkenazi haplogroup. J-L816, like R1a1a, is rarely found among Sephardic Jews. Haplogroup J is commonly found in the Middle East, so there is no obvious reason to assume a non-Jewish origin for the J-L816 progenitor.

Second, Daniel Ventura has calculated the time to an MRCA for G2c (G-M377) in Europe, another major Ashkenazi cluster, as 955 years plus or minus 107 years. G2 is very rare among Sephardim, but it has been found in a handful of Lebanese Christians and a few other Middle Easterners. Ventura hypothesizes, based in part on a G2c sample from Sicily with an MRCA with G2c Ashkenazi Jews going back 2,000 years, that G2c Jews may have been among the Jews taken by Titus to Rome after the destruction of the Second Temple.

The R1a1 haplogroup is found among R1a1a Ashkenazi Levites but is not commonly found in other Jewish populations and because the R1a1a Ashkenazi Levite progenitor was believed to have lived about 1,000 years ago, researchers have theorized that the progenitor may have been a Jewish convert from Khazaria or Adiabene.

Other researchers, believing it unlikely that a convert to Judaism could have assumed Levite status, have suggested that R1a1a Ashkenazi Levites could be descended from (1) Nethinim of Iranian origin who returned to Jerusalem after the Babylonian Exile or (2) a member of a Levite tribe in Arabia who came to Spain with the Moors. This theory assumes that the all R1a members derive from a single lineage of Nethinims of Iranian (Persian, Median, etc) origin, who could have arrived to Jerusalem with Ezra (the last wave of Jews returning from the Babylonian exile). During the subsequent period, the Nethinims were gradually incorporated into the Levites community.
When the Jewish community suddenly shrank at the beginning of the first millennium AD (the population of Jews living in the Roman empire dropped from about 8 million to 1-1.5 million), this hypothetical R1a patrilineage was likely to become limited to one or two families living in one specific location (most likely in the Mediterranean region, Italy or Spain). "Mamzerim and Nethinim are prohibited (to marry Israelites), and this prohibition is perpetual and applies both to males and females.

A large majority of the names of the parents mentioned seem to be feminine in form or meaning, and suggest that the Nethinim could not trace back to any definite paternity; and this is confirmed by the fact that the lists are followed by the enumeration of those who could not "show their father's house".