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Baltimore1937
08-06-2012, 05:52 AM
Hi,

I'm still alive and kickin'. My mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b2 (Phylotree). But there aren't many matches. So I expanded this thread a bit to the somewhat larger U5b2b group. My earliest (supposedly) known female ancestress was Charity (last name unknown), born about 1760 in the Anson-Richmond County area of North Carolina. Settlers there came from both northeast and northwest directions around 1750. Hmm...
B)

Wayne Roberts
08-20-2012, 11:16 AM
I just got here. Wayne from Brisbane, Queensland, Australia and mtDNA U5b2a5.

scottraveler
08-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Which downstream division of U5b2.... has the 16398A ? Earliest known female line ancestor was born in a lighthouse on the west (North Sea) coast of Schleswig in early 18th century.
Light house is still there.

ilmari
08-20-2012, 08:54 PM
U5b2a2 is the current name of the branch that has G16398A according to the PhyloTree U chart.

Here is the GenBank link for the "defining" individual and there is also the title of the paper:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/GU296541

Baltimore1937
09-13-2012, 10:35 PM
My U5b2b2 haplotype may (or may not) trace back to the royal house of Leinster (Ireland, of course) around 1080 AD. But I'm not going to try to prove it myself. I casually traced a line on Ancestry.com that led that far back (it goes even farther back). Marriage with the Plantagenets of England was the route.

later:
HOLD IT! There looks to be an error near the beginning of my long path back to Ireland. I looked at someone's data that lumps children from apparently two different mothers. My line seems to have an unknown mother, while other offspring are on that path back to Ireland (but not with my U5b2b2 DNA).

still later:
I'm confusing myself. First off, I've returned to my original view, and think I'm more correct than many of the other entries on Ancestry. But most of those are old, and therefore obsolete. Another point is that only the female mtDNA is involved here; not Y-DNA. That's because marriage into the Plantagenets was only via females from that Irish royal house. I'm ignoring autosomal DNA in this case.

Baltimore1937
09-20-2012, 07:11 AM
My U5b2b2 haplotype may (or may not) trace back to the royal house of Leinster (Ireland, of course) around 1080 AD. But I'm not going to try to prove it myself. I casually traced a line on Ancestry.com that led that far back (it goes even farther back). Marriage with the Plantagenets of England was the route.

later:
HOLD IT! There looks to be an error near the beginning of my long path back to Ireland. I looked at someone's data that lumps children from apparently two different mothers. My line seems to have an unknown mother, while other offspring are on that path back to Ireland (but not with my U5b2b2 DNA).

still later:
I'm confusing myself. First off, I've returned to my original view, and think I'm more correct than many of the other entries on Ancestry. But most of those are old, and therefore obsolete. Another point is that only the female mtDNA is involved here; not Y-DNA. That's because marriage into the Plantagenets was only via females from that Irish royal house. I'm ignoring autosomal DNA in this case.

My maternal line (U5b2b2) may (or may not) go all the way back to Aoife (Eva) MacMurrough, daughter of deposed king of Leinster (Ireland). I think her dates were 1141-1177. She married a Norman from Pembroke, Wales.

Baltimore1937
10-14-2012, 01:08 AM
My maternal line (U5b2b2) may (or may not) go all the way back to Aoife (Eva) MacMurrough, daughter of deposed king of Leinster (Ireland). I think her dates were 1141-1177. She married a Norman from Pembroke, Wales.

Well, just forget it. I got off on a wrong pathway, due to other peoples' entries at Ancestry. The bad link was Maud Plantagenet. So I erased her, and started over from that point. Now it's back to a Norman or Danish origin.

Baltimore1937
10-21-2012, 08:51 AM
My latest maternal line construction goes back to King John Plantagenet of Magna Carta fame. He had a daughter Joan, born about 1190, who it is sometimes said (at Ancestry) was illegitimate. He had another daughter Joan who became the Queen consort up in Scotland. My poor Joan, if I chose the right mom, was the daughter of young Agatha De Ferrers, born in 1170. Agatha was the daughter of the Earl of Derby, who was off on a crusade and died in Palestine around 1190 when his granddaughter Joan was born. King John married Joan off to a rebellious Welsh prince, so she must have been considered high enough in rank for such a marriage. If Agatha De Ferrers was really Joan's mom, and not one of John's several other mistresses, then my maternal line would seem to be in tact. Otherwise who knows where my U5b2b2 haplotype came from, although it would probably be of Danish Viking/Norman origin (I would guess).

Baltimore1937
10-22-2012, 12:22 PM
My latest maternal line construction goes back to King John Plantagenet of Magna Carta fame. He had a daughter Joan, born about 1190, who it is sometimes said (at Ancestry) was illegitimate. He had another daughter Joan who became the Queen consort up in Scotland. My poor Joan, if I chose the right mom, was the daughter of young Agatha De Ferrers, born in 1170. Agatha was the daughter of the Earl of Derby, who was off on a crusade and died in Palestine around 1190 when his granddaughter Joan was born. King John married Joan off to a rebellious Welsh prince, so she must have been considered high enough in rank for such a marriage. If Agatha De Ferrers was really Joan's mom, and not one of John's several other mistresses, then my maternal line would seem to be in tact. Otherwise who knows where my U5b2b2 haplotype came from, although it would probably be of Danish Viking/Norman origin (I would guess).

I followed an alternate tree, but eventually ran into the same people (maternal line), that goes back to Normandy > Denmark > and Sweden (Cyrid of Sweden, born about 920 in Uppsala). The main difference was dropping Agatha De Ferrers, and replacing her with Clemence Le Boteler (1175-1231). But relatives soon turned into the same people.

Kyte
10-23-2012, 02:22 PM
U5b2a2 is the current name of the branch that has G16398A according to the PhyloTree U chart.

Here is the GenBank link for the "defining" individual and there is also the title of the paper:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/GU296541

Can anyone tell me about which region/s U5b2a2 is mostly found in? I am Turkish so it's near impossible to trace my lineage back further than a few generations due to lack of records.

Baltimore1937
10-23-2012, 11:45 PM
I followed an alternate tree, but eventually ran into the same people (maternal line), that goes back to Normandy > Denmark > and Sweden (Cyrid of Sweden, born about 920 in Uppsala). The main difference was dropping Agatha De Ferrers, and replacing her with Clemence Le Boteler (1175-1231). But relatives soon turned into the same people.

Just in case anybody is following my comments above, I have now dropped the Swedish connection. The various entries on Ancestry are conflicting, and seem to not be justified for my individual line. But a Danish origin still looks probable for my U5b2b2 haplotype.

GailT
10-24-2012, 02:09 AM
Can anyone tell me about which region/s U5b2a2 is mostly found in? I am Turkish so it's near impossible to trace my lineage back further than a few generations due to lack of records.

We have 39 full genome test results for U5b2a3, and it has mostly been found in Germany, Poland and the UK, with just a few results in other countries (Italy, Czech, Netherlands and Finland). You would be the first that I know of outside of central/western Europe. Have you tested the full genome, or did you test at 23andme? U5b2a2 is estimated to be about 11,000 years old, so it's possible you could be part of an older branch, or the full genome test might show that you are a close match to one of the European samples.

Gail

Baltimore1937
10-24-2012, 03:22 AM
We have 39 full genome test results for U5b2a3, and it has mostly been found in Germany, Poland and the UK, with just a few results in other countries (Italy, Czech, Netherlands and Finland). You would be the first that I know of outside of central/western Europe. Have you tested the full genome, or did you test at 23andme? U5b2a2 is estimated to be about 11,000 years old, so it's possible you could be part of an older branch, or the full genome test might show that you are a close match to one of the European samples.

Gail

It's well known that there was a Celtic migration into Anatolia in olden times. So let's see what DNA investigation about Turkey comes up with.
:)

Kyte
10-24-2012, 10:04 AM
We have 39 full genome test results for U5b2a3, and it has mostly been found in Germany, Poland and the UK, with just a few results in other countries (Italy, Czech, Netherlands and Finland). You would be the first that I know of outside of central/western Europe. Have you tested the full genome, or did you test at 23andme? U5b2a2 is estimated to be about 11,000 years old, so it's possible you could be part of an older branch, or the full genome test might show that you are a close match to one of the European samples.

Gail

Very interesting. I've only tested with 23andMe. Don't quite know if I can push for a full genome test at this point in my career :biggrin1: My grandmother whom I received the gene from however is strikingly un-Turkish in her appearance. Even for a Turk from the Balkans.

Kyte
10-24-2012, 10:06 AM
It's well known that there was a Celtic migration into Anatolia in olden times. So let's see what DNA investigation about Turkey comes up with.
:)

I think it may have come from elsewhere. My grandmother's family are known to have lived in Bulgaria for as long as anyone can recall. It would be interesting to see the processes of intermixing, integration and assimilation in the region.

Biloo
10-25-2012, 02:17 AM
Can anyone tell me about which region/s U5b2a2 is mostly found in? I am Turkish so it's near impossible to trace my lineage back further than a few generations due to lack of records.

Here's what I found about your haplogroup :

U5b2a2 has 38 samples and is more frequent in central Europe (5 Germany, 4 Poland, 3 UK, 2 Netherlands, and 1 each Italy, Czech, Finland, Belarus, and 20 unspecified), and the lack of U5b2a2 in Russia might suggest an ice age refuge for U5b2a in Italy. U5b2a2 has a much younger age estimate, about 12,000 ybp, so this does suggest some uncertainty in the age of U5b2a, but that age estimate is dominated by 2 large subclades, and 3 U5b2a2* FMS results suggest an age of 19,000 years, so an age estimate of about 16,000 years seems reasonable for both U5b2a1 andU5b2a2.

Source : Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup U5 -- FTDNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u5b/default.aspx?section=results)

Baltimore1937
03-20-2013, 02:30 AM
I see I now have another person with me in the two U5 projects. I've been all alone in my little section (U5b2b2*) for ages. It looks like an English surname, but no other information given. And there are the 4 others closely related in the next block (probably only a thousand years or so from me to a common ancestor, ha ha). Anyway, this new partner has one more mutation than me in HVR1, and I have one more mutation in HVR2.

I replied to a Huffungton Post article about the Plague in London and a newly discovered graveyard there from about 1348. So I said, hey!, my Isabel Cornwall was born in 1348. So one friendly answer said she was also descended from Isabel Cornwall, and that we were related to Princess Diana! I mean, I really do think I should be getting some kind of royal allowance, if that's the case.
:beerchug:

GailT
03-20-2013, 04:27 AM
I see I now have another person with me in the two U5 projects. I've been all alone in my little section (U5b2b2*) for ages. It looks like an English surname, but no other information given.

Yes, we just got a new U5b2b2* member, unfortunately she does not share any of your extra mutations, so you each represent new branches of U5b2b2, and your common ancestor could be about 10,000 years ago. The 4 others are in another branch that of U5b2b2, so you are still unique in your branch within the last 10,000 years.

Gail

Fam_Hound
04-26-2013, 03:55 PM
New to this thread.
yDNA is R1a1a or R-M198
mtDNA is U5b2b3a*

Only have my paternal line back to 1800 but the maternal line goes back to 1600's Germany and Denmark.

Baltimore1937
04-27-2013, 08:09 AM
New to this thread.
yDNA is R1a1a or R-M198
mtDNA is U5b2b3a*

Only have my paternal line back to 1800 but the maternal line goes back to 1600's Germany and Denmark.

Hi,
I remember reading somewhere, a long time ago, that Peter Stuyvesant, Governor of New Netherland, sent recruiters to Denmark, along with to the Netherlands and nearby areas, to invite new colonists to bolster his Dutch colony. That would've been in the 1600s.

Baltimore1937
04-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Hi,
I remember reading somewhere, a long time ago, that Peter Stuyvesant, Governor of New Netherland, sent recruiters to Denmark, along with to the Netherlands and nearby areas, to invite new colonists to bolster his Dutch colony. That would've been in the 1600s.

To narrow it down, it was to Protestant areas in NW Europe that those recruiters were sent; as I recall.

Baltimore1937
05-10-2013, 05:02 PM
Just in case anybody is following my comments above, I have now dropped the Swedish connection. The various entries on Ancestry are conflicting, and seem to not be justified for my individual line. But a Danish origin still looks probable for my U5b2b2 haplotype.

I am now leaning toward a Norwegian origin for my U5b2b2 haplotype, possibly/probably via the Orkneys. There was a Danish connection as Denmark claimed Norway, Orkneys, Normandy etc at that time. But there are unrecoverable gaps that look impossible to fill in, between a firm Normandy presence and arrival from Orkneys-More, Norway area.

Baltimore1937
06-11-2013, 08:58 AM
I am now leaning toward a Norwegian origin for my U5b2b2 haplotype, possibly/probably via the Orkneys. There was a Danish connection as Denmark claimed Norway, Orkneys, Normandy etc at that time. But there are unrecoverable gaps that look impossible to fill in, between a firm Normandy presence and arrival from Orkneys-More, Norway area.

I really don't know. On Ancestry.com, I come more or less to a dead end, if my tree is right (which it may well not be). I go back to a Beatrice Le Goz. Her father's line is definitely Viking/Norse. But just who did that guy marry. Most entries go back one or two generations to Denmark, but claim royalty (looks impossible). Other entries don't even try to figure it out. And a couple give her mother as Roberta, which is a dead end.

J Man
06-12-2013, 01:19 AM
For what it's worth a U5b2b1 sample has been found in Upper Paleolithic Italy. It comes form Continenza. :)

dartraighe
06-12-2013, 06:52 PM
I am now leaning toward a Norwegian origin for my U5b2b2 haplotype, possibly/probably via the Orkneys. There was a Danish connection as Denmark claimed Norway, Orkneys, Normandy etc at that time. But there are unrecoverable gaps that look impossible to fill in, between a firm Normandy presence and arrival from Orkneys-More, Norway area.

Most of my U5b2b matches are from Iberia.I think that it is the place of origin of my group and that the Basque language was the language of these people.The microliths found at Mount Sandal, Ireland were similar to those found in Denmark.

AJL
06-12-2013, 08:30 PM
The Ziggurat of Ur in Iraq is similar to the Palenque temple in southern Mexico. Which mitochondrial group do you suppose is responsible for that similarity and what language did they speak?

andersje
09-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Hi! I just got my 23andme testing back. I'm a u5b2a2, traced back to Amelia Ernestine Rebehn (married name Schendel), born 1837, somewhere in (we're pretty sure) Northern Germany, but it could be anywhere from Posen, Prussia (where her husband was born), to farther East. Anyone have any Rebehns in their family tree?

Baltimore1937
09-18-2013, 04:16 AM
Don't forget to look at the U5 project:


http://www.familytreedna.com/public/U5b/

Baltimore1937
09-29-2013, 10:50 AM
For what it's worth a U5b2b1 sample has been found in Upper Paleolithic Italy. It comes form Continenza. :)

I notice that Grotta Continenza is on the Adriatic side of the Italian peninsula. The Adriatic Sea was dry land back in the Paoleolithic. And seeing several HVR1 matches to me in Hungary, Slovakia, Czech and Poland, I suspect that part of that early U5b2b population migrated northeastward during the Mesolithic directly from the Adriatic > and around the eastern end of the Alps (after the LGM).

Baltimore1937
10-01-2013, 06:54 PM
My own U5b2b2 haplotype may trace back to Sweden. I've been at this point before. Now it is reinforced by a girl's name back in Normandy; sister to a girl on my direct maternal line (if I constructed my tree right). This could point to a descent from one of Danish King Harold Bluetooth's daughters (mother/wife from Sweden). Or it could be from a Swedish Viking's daughter. Who knows what all went on back there?

grannie6
12-15-2013, 08:53 PM
Hi, I am new here . I am mtdna U5b2a2 -- Haplogroup U5 --- Subgroup - R
I believe I am in the Ursula Clan

Baltimore1937
12-16-2013, 10:07 PM
Another origin for my seemingly rare U5b2b2 haplotype could conceivably be Jomsborg, Vindland (German coast of the Baltic Sea). King Harold "Bluetooth" was murdered there about 987 (I think it was) by followers of his rebellious son "Forkbeard". Harold had been actively interested in Jomsborg, and there could have been individuals going from there to Normandy in the 900s.

Baltimore1937
12-18-2013, 01:18 AM
Another origin for my seemingly rare U5b2b2 haplotype could conceivably be Jomsborg, Vindland (German coast of the Baltic Sea). King Harold "Bluetooth" was murdered there about 987 (I think it was) by followers of his rebellious son "Forkbeard". Harold had been actively interested in Jomsborg, and there could have been individuals going from there to Normandy in the 900s.

Well, maybe I don't really understand the nature of Jomsborg. Now I'm back thinking to where I was; a Swedish origin before Normandy. Anyway, U5b2/U5b2b2 probably had a pathway up through central Europe after the LGM. It broke off with 16519C (RCRS) first, and then later added my 228A to the ancestral stem. The 16519C is more commonly seen in Norse-derived individuals in Ireland, for example.

Baltimore1937
12-19-2013, 03:30 AM
Well, maybe I don't really understand the nature of Jomsborg. Now I'm back thinking to where I was; a Swedish origin before Normandy. Anyway, U5b2/U5b2b2 probably had a pathway up through central Europe after the LGM. It broke off with 16519C (RCRS) first, and then later added my 228A to the ancestral stem. The 16519C is more commonly seen in Norse-derived individuals in Ireland, for example.

My specific thinking is based on Clemence de Fougeres as Joan Plantagent's mom (which nobody else agrees with). I tentatively traced her direct maternal line in Normandy back to Viking-age Sweden. Even though Chateau Fougeres is technically in Brittany, her mother's line is Norman (her father's probably Carolingian).

My U5b2b2 haplotype may be rare due to it coming from a single female in Normandy. She would be Thyra(?) Bjornsdottir, born around 968 in Denmark. She was the/a daughter of Swedish Jarl/King of Denmark just before Harold Bluetooth. I don't know much about the history involved, but he must have died an early death. It looks like Harold Bluetooth adopted this girl (ex-Princess) and married her off for political purposes; or maybe for her protection against palace intrigue. He did the same with his own natural offspring; a couple of daughters and a son to Normandy. His natural daughters would not have had my U5b2b2. Well, that's my current assessment of the situation.

Baltimore1937
12-21-2013, 12:44 PM
My specific thinking is based on Clemence de Fougeres as Joan Plantagent's mom (which nobody else agrees with). I tentatively traced her direct maternal line in Normandy back to Viking-age Sweden. Even though Chateau Fougeres is technically in Brittany, her mother's line is Norman (her father's probably Carolingian).

My U5b2b2 haplotype may be rare due to it coming from a single female in Normandy. She would be Thyra(?) Bjornsdottir, born around 968 in Denmark. She was the/a daughter of Swedish Jarl/King of Denmark just before Harold Bluetooth. I don't know much about the history involved, but he must have died an early death. It looks like Harold Bluetooth adopted this girl (ex-Princess) and married her off for political purposes; or maybe for her protection against palace intrigue. He did the same with his own natural offspring; a couple of daughters and a son to Normandy. His natural daughters would not have had my U5b2b2. Well, that's my current assessment of the situation.

On the other hand (there is often that "other hand"), there is a critical juncture with Margaret verch Llewelyn. I am assuming that Joan was her mom. But was she really? If you Google Margaret/Margred, you see all kinds of supposed birth dates. Some have her born before Llewelyn married Joan. Llewelyn had a few mistresses before he officially married Joan. My U5b2b2 looks Scandinavian. Llewelyn has a Norse/Norwegian input a few generations earlier. So Norse DNA was in the area. Hmm...

later: After browsing some more, I think it is safe to bet on Joan Plantagenet (1189-1137) as being Margaret's mom. I also found info about another daughter of Joan: Susanna verch Llewelyn. It looks like she had a few daughters by 2 or 3 husbands, which of course means my U5b2b2 must be alive and well in England/Scotland.

A Girl Outdoors
01-21-2014, 05:33 AM
I'm very new to this. My son just had a DNA test. His maternal line (ME) = mtDNA: U5b2a2. We do not have a lot of information about our ancestry. My Mother & Grandmother were from the Bath /Belhaven areas of North Carolina. Last Name of PAUL. I saw that your haplogroup is close to that & you have family in North Carolina. thx for any information you may have.

Baltimore1937
02-01-2014, 12:13 AM
I'm very new to this. My son just had a DNA test. His maternal line (ME) = mtDNA: U5b2a2. We do not have a lot of information about our ancestry. My Mother & Grandmother were from the Bath /Belhaven areas of North Carolina. Last Name of PAUL. I saw that your haplogroup is close to that & you have family in North Carolina. thx for any information you may have.

Hi. I found Belhaven on the map. It is in the tidewater region of eastern NC. Colonial settlers there probably came from tidewater Virginia. My direct maternal line (if I reconstructed it right) came down from NJ, and Long Island before that in the 1700s/1600s. Then they probably came down the interior route, e.g. "The Great Wagon Road" as seen on an old National geographic map. Your U5b2a2 probably came from England/UK/Ire. As for my own direct maternal line, they moved to Kentucky after the Revolutionary War, and then to Indiana after the War of 1812, when Indiana was opened up for settlement. I don't have any contact with relatives in NC, if there are any. You might join the U5/U5b projects at FTDNA. Then you could browse down through the charts and find your U5b2a group. Then there is Ancestry.com for genealogy (family tree) tracing.
Good luck in your research!

Wulf Talented
02-02-2014, 10:59 PM
My Father just received his results and he's U5b2b - I've only gotten to the late 1800's, with the maternal line being in Hampshire, England. I'd love to know where this comes from, Norse or Basque.

Baltimore1937
02-05-2014, 04:50 AM
My Father just received his results and he's U5b2b - I've only gotten to the late 1800's, with the maternal line being in Hampshire, England. I'd love to know where this comes from, Norse or Basque.

It's best to have the complete FMS test done, in order to refine it even further. Out of curiosity, what exactly are your HVR1 & HVR2 results? Hampshire is an interesting location; ancient royalty buried there (Winchester). U5b2b could have come from Normandy. There were also some Jute (Danish) settlers there in Hampshire; Isle-of-Wight and Winchester areas (I saw on some map or other). As you can tell, I'm avoiding Saxon origins. I also don't think a direct Basque origin is probable. U5b2b seems more likely to have been somewhat further east during the LGM, e.g. Italy and the French Riviera. But I'm just guessing.

Wulf Talented
02-05-2014, 06:21 PM
It's best to have the complete FMS test done, in order to refine it even further. Out of curiosity, what exactly are your HVR1 & HVR2 results? Hampshire is an interesting location; ancient royalty buried there (Winchester). U5b2b could have come from Normandy. There were also some Jute (Danish) settlers there in Hampshire; Isle-of-Wight and Winchester areas (I saw on some map or other). As you can tell, I'm avoiding Saxon origins. I also don't think a direct Basque origin is probable. U5b2b seems more likely to have been somewhat further east during the LGM, e.g. Italy and the French Riviera. But I'm just guessing.


I tested him with 23andME - So I'm not sure about any matches. I'm going to save up a little money and have him test with FTDNA for their full sequence test, and hope for more information! Would love to know it's origin!

Baltimore1937
02-05-2014, 06:27 PM
Superficially, it looks to me that most of the U5b2b clade went north, after the LGM, up and around the east end of the Alps. Then onward up through the Moravian gap to the Oder River, and then followed it to the Baltic Sea. And of course fanning out along the way.

Baltimore1937
04-24-2014, 10:57 PM
Although my current construction of my family tree (direct maternal line) has all kinds of aristocrats along the way in Medieval times, there is always the possibility of an NPE or such like. One red flag is in Buckinghamshire, where the female in my line (Isabell Goodspeed) was apparently not born where all her alleged siblings were born. She has the proper surname though. I mean, maybe her dad had sex with a servant girl, and then she took his name. Is that possible? However, nobody else seems to question her mother being Isabel Allyn Goodspeed, so maybe I'm just suspicious over nothing.

grannie6
05-08-2014, 07:15 PM
Hi, I'm new here. not sure how to work this.
I am U5b2a2 Haplogroup U5 subgroup R
My paternal side is I2b2 A mutated into G ( My paternal was done by my brother ) He has since passed away.
Is there anyone that can explain some of the paternal side.
Thank You

grannie6
05-08-2014, 07:42 PM
I think I saw a page on here that someone had the first 5 listed from their 23andme relatives.
my maternal side:
V1
H1
H1oa Ribib2a1a1
HV
K1a1 Ribib2a1a

My paternal side:
J1c3 I2b2
H1
H1a1 Ribib2ala
U4a2
H1c1 E1b1b1a

hope I did this right if not feel free to correct me.

koritaylor
08-13-2014, 06:22 AM
Hi,

I'm still alive and kickin'. My mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b2 (Phylotree). But there aren't many matches. So I expanded this thread a bit to the somewhat larger U5b2b group. My earliest (supposedly) known female ancestress was Charity (last name unknown), born about 1760 in the Anson-Richmond County area of North Carolina. Settlers there came from both northeast and northwest directions around 1750. Hmm...
B)


Not sure if you still use this...but was googling and came across...

My haplogroup is U5b2a2 and most of my family I have traced back to Ireland/Scotland

Baltimore1937
08-20-2014, 02:22 AM
Not sure if you still use this...but was googling and came across...

My haplogroup is U5b2a2 and most of my family I have traced back to Ireland/Scotland

My maternal ancestress back there in North Carolina apparently was of Presbyterian folk, who came down from New Jersey. That means many of that group of her friends and neighbors were Scotch or Scotch-Irish. My "Ancestral Origins" at FTDNA gives me 13 from Ireland; the largest single number. Others from England, Scotland, UK, and other break-downs. But that chart is only for HVR1.

Dr_McNinja
09-15-2014, 11:32 AM
I have what is almost certain to be an as yet unidentified South Asian cousin (23cM on one segment) on my mom's 23andMe profile who is U5b2b.

GailT
09-15-2014, 02:54 PM
I have what is almost certain to be an as yet unidentified South Asian cousin (23cM on one segment) on my mom's 23andMe profile who is U5b2b.

If you can as this person to send me any extra mutations from James Lick's mthap, I'll compare with other U5b2b. There is also a single U5b2* sample from south Asia which represent a new branch of U5b2. I'm guessing that some U5b might have migrated to south Asia around the time of the LGM. It would be helpful to have many more U5 full sequences from south Asia.

Wulf Warrior
01-01-2015, 06:13 PM
I used James licks MtDNA website to further define my Father's U5B2B 23andMe assigned to him,

Result,

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) U5b2b1a1

Defining Markers for haplogroup U5b2b1a1:
HVR2: 73G 150T 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 1721T 2706G 3197C 3861G 4769G 7028T 7768G 8860G 9477A 11467G 11653G 11719A 12308G 12372A 12634G 13617C 13630G 13637G 14182C 14766T 15326G 15497A
HVR1: 16270T 16292T 16362C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup U5b2b1a1 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 16192T 16270T ⇨ U5 ⇨ 3197C 9477A 13617C ⇨ U5a'b ⇨ 150T 7768G 14182C ⇨ U5b ⇨ 1721T 13637G ⇨ U5b2 ⇨ 11653G 12634G 13630G 16192C ⇨ U5b2b ⇨ 15497A ⇨ U5b2b1 ⇨ 3861G 16362C ⇨ U5b2b1a ⇨ 16292T ⇨ U5b2b1a1 ⇨ 14374C

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(27): 73G 150T 263G 750G 1438G 1721T 2706G 3197C 3861G 4769G 7028T 7768G 8860G 9477A 11467G 11653G 11719A 12308G 12372A 12634G 13617C 13637G 14182C 14766T 15497A 16270T 16292T
Flips(1): 16362G
Extras(1): 14374C
Untested(3): 13630 15326 16192

Krefter
01-01-2015, 07:32 PM
For the last several weeks I have been analysising almost all published ancient European mtDNA, and in case you guys don't know U5b2a1a has been found in Neolithic Spain and Bronze age Yamna of Russia. Also, other typical central and north Euro U5 lineages such as U5b2a2, U5b2b1a, and U5b2b2, have been found at a high rate in Mesolithic Germany and Sweden.

Here's my reference spreadsheet for ancient European mtDNA. Make sure to look at the bottom where I have several sections, such as "Hunter gatherers" and "Neolithic SW Euro". I list the HV1, HV2, and CR RSRS haplotypes of every sample, their haplogroup, notable positives, and notable negatives.

By the end of today I'll have ever haplotype found in a ancient European mtDNA(there are alot of closly related haplotypes shared, not on phloytree), and I'll make a google map showing where HV1 haplotypes have been found, like FTDNA does. I will also show haplogroup frequencies, using only HV1 data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HcAhe7QvggT792VruuoZX6IsTg4LhWXV-Z_ZfTk2KGA/edit#gid=1405879894

I don't trust old studies from Spain, France, and Ukraine, and so I'll take their samples out of their sections and put them under a "Likely false positives" section.

I'm very excited to do what I did with ancient mtDNA with modern mtDNA, and directly compare the two.

There are alot of specific extra mutations shared by related ancient cultures(such as K 16398A), and I bet some people on this forum have them, so we should check out our raw data.

Krefter
01-01-2015, 07:44 PM
Looking at ancient Euro mtDNA It makes sense how Basque and North Euros have 15 to 20% Mesolithic mtDNA, but over 50% Mesolithic blood. Neolithic central Europeans had under 5% Mesolithic mtDNA, but close to 50% Mesolithic Y DNA, and probably over 15% Mesolithic blood, when admixture with HGs and Yamna type people occured in the late Neolithic Mesolithic mtDNA could have risen, while hg I decreased(R1a, R1b, J), which makes it appear Euros have little HG blood.

It seems pretty clear now Euros can be explained by EEF, Yamna, late HGs, and recent Near eastern admixture.

GailT
01-01-2015, 07:51 PM
I used James licks MtDNA website to further define my Father's U5B2B 23andMe assigned to him,

Result,

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches: 1) U5b2b1a1 Extras(1): 14374C


My age estimate for U5b2b1a1 is about 6500 years. There is one sample in GenBank who shares your extra mutation 14374C, EU594543 from England, and also a person from Ireland in the U5 project. They each have 1 or 2 extra mutations, so I'd guess that the 14374C group shares a common maternal ancestor a few thousand years ago.

GailT
01-01-2015, 07:57 PM
I'm very excited to do what I did with ancient mtDNA with modern mtDNA, and directly compare the two. There are alot of specific extra mutations shared by related ancient cultures(such as K 16398A), and I bet some people on this forum have them, so we should check out our raw data.

Many of the ancient samples seem to be extinct mtDNA lineages, or perhaps not extinct but not yet found in modern populations. As the database of both ancient and modern full sequences expands, it will be interesting to try to estimate how many of the ancient lineages actually are extinct.

GailT
01-01-2015, 08:04 PM
Looking at ancient Euro mtDNA It makes sense how Basque and North Euros have 15 to 20% Mesolithic mtDNA.

You also need to look for the possibility of bottlenecks and recent founder effects in relatively small isolated populations such as the Basque and Saami. While the Basque are about 18% U5, most of this is from a U5b1f1a founder who lived about 3000 years ago, so the percentage of U5 in the present day poplation is not a reliable indicator of their Mesolithic ancestry.

Krefter
01-02-2015, 12:10 AM
Many of the ancient samples seem to be extinct mtDNA lineages, or perhaps not extinct but not yet found in modern populations. As the database of both ancient and modern full sequences expands, it will be interesting to try to estimate how many of the ancient lineages actually are extinct.

That's true for Upper Palaeolithic U samples(except the U5*s), but it may not be true for more recent ancestors who lived in the last 10,000 years and have the same basic subclade structure as modern Europeans.

Krefter
01-02-2015, 12:20 AM
You also need to look for the possibility of bottlenecks and recent founder effects in relatively small isolated populations such as the Basque and Saami. While the Basque are about 18% U5, most of this is from a U5b1f1a founder who lived about 3000 years ago, so the percentage of U5 in the present day poplation is not a reliable indicator of their Mesolithic ancestry.

Founder effects, drift, and selection seem to be big obstacles to me. There are a few founder effects in ancient mtDNA, with samples from the same site, which we have to acknowledge when comparing with samples of mostly unrelated modern people.

I think it's ridiculous how people a few years ago and even now think mtDNA frequencies of old haplogroups such as U or H, mean anything. I like to look at the mutations and structure of lineages.

stranraer
01-10-2015, 09:04 PM
Hello, My haplogroup is U5 from FTDNA. I think it can be further refined to U5b2a1a, but I have not had the full maternal sequence yet. My closest HVR2 matches are of Welsh, Irish, or German origin (of the ones who know their European ancestry - the others have not found the immigrant ancestor.) Within the last year I have traced my earliest maternal ancestor to Jamestown, Virginia, of almost certain English origin. But my more general pattern is close to Swedish or Finnish population groups.
My Family Finder results show mainly British Isles and Scandinavian ancestry, with some Southern Europe and Mediterranean, but no Central Europe. My paper trail is nearly half German, though.

Krefter
01-11-2015, 12:19 AM
Post your HV1 and HV2 RSRS mutations, and I'll tell you what you have. You'll have to get a FMS test to know whether you have U5b2a1a for sure.

Baltimore1937
01-11-2015, 07:50 AM
Hello, My haplogroup is U5 from FTDNA. I think it can be further refined to U5b2a1a, but I have not had the full maternal sequence yet. My closest HVR2 matches are of Welsh, Irish, or German origin (of the ones who know their European ancestry - the others have not found the immigrant ancestor.) Within the last year I have traced my earliest maternal ancestor to Jamestown, Virginia, of almost certain English origin. But my more general pattern is close to Swedish or Finnish population groups.
My Family Finder results show mainly British Isles and Scandinavian ancestry, with some Southern Europe and Mediterranean, but no Central Europe. My paper trail is nearly half German, though.

I hope by now you have joined the U5 Project. You can see that U5b2a1a is quite large and has been broken down further into subgroups. There are also Germans in the mix. But there is no substitute for the FMS test.

stranraer
01-12-2015, 05:36 AM
Post your HV1 and HV2 RSRS mutations, and I'll tell you what you have. You'll have to get a FMS test to know whether you have U5b2a1a for sure.

16192 T
16311 C
73 G
150 T
263 G
315.1 C

Thank you

Krefter
01-12-2015, 06:01 AM
16192 T
16311 C
73 G
150 T
263 G
315.1 C

Thank you

There's pretty much no doubt you have pre-U5b2a1a1. You have no HV1 or HV2 mutations passed that, and it's the furthest a U5b2a1 person can down on the mtDNA tree when HV1 and HV2 were the only regions tested.

You're an exact HV1 match with MAJ4, who lived in Ukraine about 5,000 years ago and was a member of the Yamna culture. There's also a U5b2a1a(xpre-U5b2a1a1) from Neolithic Germany and Spain.

ilmari
01-12-2015, 10:14 AM
16192 T
16311 C
73 G
150 T
263 G
315.1 C

Thank you

These look more like rCRS values.

stranraer
01-19-2015, 06:33 AM
There's pretty much no doubt you have pre-U5b2a1a1. You have no HV1 or HV2 mutations passed that, and it's the furthest a U5b2a1 person can down on the mtDNA tree when HV1 and HV2 were the only regions tested.

You're an exact HV1 match with MAJ4, who lived in Ukraine about 5,000 years ago and was a member of the Yamna culture. There's also a U5b2a1a(xpre-U5b2a1a1) from Neolithic Germany and Spain.

Thank you, Krefter. This is very helpful.

stranraer
03-11-2015, 05:47 AM
My preliminary 23andMe results came in today. They have me as U5b2a1. So Krefter, you were right on the money. Looks like I need to migrate over to that group ...

Leeroy Jenkins
08-19-2015, 10:42 PM
My dad got his 23andMe results in today, and it seems his mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b. I now have a father that is U5b2b and a wife and daughter that are U5b2a. Nice. :)

J Man
08-20-2015, 12:22 AM
My dad got his 23andMe results in today, and it seems his mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b. I now have a father that is U5b2b and a wife and daughter that are U5b2a. Nice. :)

Mesolithic women stronk! :P

GailT
08-20-2015, 03:00 AM
My dad got his 23andMe results in today, and it seems his mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b. I now have a father that is U5b2b and a wife and daughter that are U5b2a. Nice. :)

You can upload 23andMe mtDNA results to James Lick's mthap web tool to see if you have any extra mutations that are useful for identifying a more specific subclade.

Xuipa
10-20-2015, 02:17 AM
The Ziggurat of Ur in Iraq is similar to the Palenque temple in southern Mexico. Which mitochondrial group do you suppose is responsible for that similarity and what language did they speak?

OH I just signed up to say your kind of smart aren't you? at least very observant .
yes by chance my clan was supposed to be Native American and it is supposed to match MTdna of Lady Yolik'nal yes the Queen of Palenque.
now someone has to ask why they won't tell us what Her and Lord Pakal's Mtdna are or were. They tested them but never told anyone what it is. I can't guess why they won't tell anyone :P . but sure wonder why they had to find a finger bone of a unmineralized child "24000 years old that was ancestors of the Native Americans" this is a so called ultimate "European" mtdna and they had to put it in Siberia somehow it seems . they did that when they can't get mtdna from most mummies as young as 2000 to 3000 years but they got Mtdna from a finger bone of a baby.. I sure kind of hope it is a middle finger bone .

Xuipa
10-22-2015, 05:21 PM
AJL you might appreciate this

http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/archeol/fuentema.htm

" determined that it was probably Proto-Sumerian, which is found on many artifacts from in Mesopotamia. An identical script was used by the Elamites called Proto-Elamite.

Dr. Winters believed that researchers had been unable to read the writing because they refused to compare Proto-Elamite and Proto-Sumerian writing with other writing systems used in 3000-2000 BC. He compared the writing to the Libyco-Berber writing used in the Sahara 5000 years ago. This writing was used by the Proto-Dravidians (of the Indus Valley), Proto-Mande , Proto-Elamites and Proto-Sumerians.""



http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_8.htm

dang makes you wonder what happened to change just about everything in the last 3500 years don't it.. ( yes about ' time , times and a half time ago' )

you will want to search around and read some more to see the full controversy, because of course there is one :P

Xuipa
12-12-2015, 02:53 AM
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=200370.0

reply #38

"
Poor skeletal pres*ervation is characteristic of the Maya area, as most contributors to this volume note, and Pakal's remains are no exception to the rule. Vera Ties*ler's recent examination of the skeleton indicates that it is only about 75 percent complete and poorly preserved. Taphonomic changes were noted at both the macroscopic and microscopic level, making both age determi*nation and other analyses problematic, and DNA extraction not possible. Despite these limitations, however, some observations were possible on degenerative changes in the vertebral column and joint surfaces of the appendicular skeleton. Also, Pakal's pubic symphyses and portions of his auricular surfaces were sufficiently preserved to allow for morphological observations. Preservation of a rib also was sufficient to attempt age as*sessment using histological methods. "

How convenient is that anyway? only that way no one has got to apologize to anyone and agree to stop tell and start asking!

Amazing how they can tell us how they can get dna for "Millions and millions of years old" or even 24000 years , but not a 1400 year old mummy .

there is sisters and a mom and other ladies from around there that have to be buried there too.. and they have to know by now. but why aren't they telling the truth? and why can't they figure out that haplogroup B comes from U5 and or maybe U6. I doubt they ever figure it out , I mean they got their whole tree upside down. dnag what a mess.

Ric
01-07-2016, 05:30 PM
New to this thread.
yDNA is R1a1a or R-M198
mtDNA is U5b2b3a*

Only have my paternal line back to 1800 but the maternal line goes back to 1600's Germany and Denmark.

Hi Fam Hound,

I am also U5b2b3a tested by Full Mitonchondrial Sequence at FTDNA. I have no exact matches and only a few HVR1 '-1' matches at Mitosearch. Those '-1' matches people don't give much information but they are probably from Central Europe...somewhere in the Slavic sphere of influence, perhaps also Germany.
May I ask you if your maternal lineage is also from a country that would include all Eastern Europe and Russia?
My mom is from France.

Baltimore1937
01-16-2016, 12:55 PM
It looks to me like U5b2b3a* is French and Spanish (incl. Puerto Rico). The U5 project has it in 2 groups. There are others in there who are not stated as French or Puerto Rican.

C J Wyatt III
01-16-2016, 03:56 PM
It looks to me like U5b2b3a* is French and Spanish (incl. Puerto Rico). The U5 project has it in 2 groups. There are others in there who are not stated as French or Puerto Rican.

I found eight U5b2b3a's on the U5b Project not including the finer subclades. The first two I found which had GEDmatch kits had X-DNA connections to my mother. A matching segment just about anywhere on my mother's X-chromosomes indicates a Thomas Edward Green b. 1700 near Culpeper VA and lived in Granville Co. North Carolina as a common ancestor. He fathered hundreds and hundreds of children with scores and scores of enslaved women. The female offspring when old enough usually were sold as brides. U5b2b3a is almost certainly the haplotype of at least one of those enslaved women.

Jack Wyatt

Xuipa
01-20-2016, 12:13 AM
I found eight U5b2b3a's on the U5b Project not including the finer subclades. The first two I found which had GEDmatch kits had X-DNA connections to my mother. A matching segment just about anywhere on my mother's X-chromosomes indicates a Thomas Edward Green b. 1700 near Culpeper VA and lived in Granville Co. North Carolina as a common ancestor. He fathered hundreds and hundreds of children with scores and scores of enslaved women. The female offspring when old enough usually were sold as brides. U5b2b3a is almost certainly the haplotype of at least one of those enslaved women.

Jack Wyatt
and really my guess has been that the Puerto Rican MTdna was there one of two ways .
that It got to that island around the time when the Mayan Palenque were settled and it being between here and there .
SO like setting up they as always have been setting up trader networks , and you do that networks of goods with family not with strangers.

or maybe and less likely they got to Puerto Rico as indians from North America when they were sold to the Caribbean or in that time when spanish might have stole some indians from here or there and left them for whatever reason.

one thing I am convinced of is scientist don't have a dang clue how fast dna changes under extreme conditions of that time .. yes they are calculating things from OUR time now .... but who is really under any kind of real environmental or cellular stresses when they move someplace now days ? I mean today where everyone eats the same pineapples from hawaii and the same sugar from mid west sugar beets ? all the food in the grocery stores is the same food raised in the exact same 3 or 4 places . now days most of the Meat is raised in the same two or three places around the world and everyone eats it . that clock is a stinkin joke.

GailT
01-20-2016, 06:42 PM
Hi Fam Hound,

I am also U5b2b3a tested by Full Mitonchondrial Sequence at FTDNA. I have no exact matches and only a few HVR1 '-1' matches at Mitosearch.

FTDNA has not been showing matches correctly for people who tested after October 2015, so if you tested recently, you should check your match list again after they correct this.

And there are also people in U5b2b3a or its subclades from Ireland, UK, Denmark and Germany.

Baltimore1937
03-05-2016, 12:45 AM
I just noticed a new PhyloTree: Build #17 - 18 Feb 2016. I'm sure it has already been reported elsewhere in this forum.

http://www.phylotree.org

Okiegirl43
03-30-2016, 01:05 AM
Where can I find quality information on U5b2b2? I am new to this information and was adopted at birth. Thank you.

Xuipa
03-30-2016, 05:34 AM
Where can I find quality information on U5b2b2? I am new to this information and was adopted at birth. Thank you. just don't ask because it isn't there !!! ... please do your own research. other wise you get too many opinions and no facts. mitosearch a good place to start.
what are your mutations and were you were adopted from OK. ? my family originally from OK left dust bowl years , we had a native direct lineage. I am a u5b2 also. but science has been calling me a wannabee for more than 10 years now, because they got their theories and only their theories count. but do you want to guess what I say about dna testing? it is all about them and their theories and not our or anyone's real histories. Because they got all kinds of things about all kinds of dna issues just every kind of wrong. if they had a clue how it really works they would be stinkin dangerous.

do your own research dear!

Baltimore1937
03-31-2016, 06:54 AM
Where can I find quality information on U5b2b2? I am new to this information and was adopted at birth. Thank you.

I assume you tested at FTDNA. It would be nice if you would join the U5 Project (like me). From there you'd branch out with the guidance of the project administrators. Anyway, it looks like most with U5b2b2 stem from UK/Ire and likely Scandinavia.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/U5b?iframe=mtresults

GailT
04-01-2016, 04:44 AM
Where can I find quality information on U5b2b2? I am new to this information and was adopted at birth. Thank you.

The best approach is to join the FTDNA U5 project (if you tested at FTDNA). I'm the volunteer project admin and I'll compare your results to others in the project and in GenBank. If you tested at 23andMe you can try James Lick's mthap tool to see if any extra mutations were found.

We are developing a pretty good understanding of the origins and history of U5 based on over 2000 full sequence samples and also based on testing of ancient remains.

Baltimore1937
05-27-2016, 09:34 AM
I see by my FTDNA matches, which were recently scrambled somewhat by FTDNA, that I have a new female match with U5b2b2. She has a Norway email address. Since U5b2b2 is so rare, that looks to be significant.

Baltimore1937
05-27-2016, 04:21 PM
I see by my FTDNA matches, which were recently scrambled somewhat by FTDNA, that I have a new female match with U5b2b2. She has a Norway email address. Since U5b2b2 is so rare, that looks to be significant.

A bit more clarification: She is not on my maternal side, since she is given 2nd to 4th cousin (Family Finder/autosomal). I'd guess it to be 3rd to 5th cousin. I suspect she is from the Sogne Fjord area, as her name bespeaks the coast. Anyway, I doubt that I'll see her in my mtDNA U5b2b2 matching list at FTDNA.

Baltimore1937
08-16-2016, 11:12 PM
I just got a new HVR1 U5 match at FTDNA. That's the first one in three years. Am I rare or what!

Baltimore1937
03-14-2017, 05:05 AM
I have a new and rare U5b2b2 FMS match with a genetic distance of 1. Her last name looks rather Scotch-Irish (based on that surname in Genforum), but no voluntary information is given.

Baltimore1937
04-10-2017, 10:27 PM
I have a new HVR1 match. Since they are uncommon, even at the HVR1 level, it's worth mentioning. This person tested FMS, but is only given U5. I don't even know if it is in the U5b2b clade; apparently not. It must be a new sub-group within U5. This person lives in the Czech Republic. Good to see a wider participation is evolving.

Baltimore1937
06-02-2017, 08:53 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if my U5b2b2 had an early the Scotch-Irish origin. That's just my general impression from various sources.

castle3
06-03-2017, 08:31 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if my U5b2b2 had an early the Scotch-Irish origin. That's just my general impression from various sources.

My closest matches are all Scottish or Irish.

Oliver.s
12-17-2017, 01:44 PM
My Father just received his results and he's U5b2b - I've only gotten to the late 1800's, with the maternal line being in Hampshire, England. I'd love to know where this comes from, Norse or Basque.

Hi there wulf talented.

I have the same haplogroup and my family are from Hampshire in South England. We also have Irish and Scandinavian DNA plus a significant amount of French and Spanish basque dna.

Would be interested to see what you have found and whether there is any relation.

Oliver

Baltimore1937
12-18-2017, 06:43 AM
From what little I know about Hampshire, that includes the Isle-of-Wight, and Winchester Cathedral and other historical attractions. There was some Jute (Danes from Kent) colonization there, wasn't there?

Baltimore1937
02-28-2018, 05:54 PM
I just received notice of a new U5b2b2 match at FTDNA. She matches my HVR1 & HVR2, a rather rare phenomenon. However, she has not done the FMS test for the coding region. Her earliest shown maternal ancestor's maiden name looks like a NE USA origin. As for her Family Finder test results, I haven't done a thorough check to see if there is a match.

Baltimore1937
08-11-2018, 07:10 AM
All of a sudden I found it easy to push my direct maternal line back a few generations. But I'm not sure of that whole branch yet. Anyway, rather than being an offshoot of Scotch-Irish or similar, I found myself in Norfolk, England. Since that is East Anglia of old, that population would seem to be derived from Danes mostly. Hmm...

Baltimore1937
08-12-2018, 09:07 AM
All of a sudden I found it easy to push my direct maternal line back a few generations. But I'm not sure of that whole branch yet. Anyway, rather than being an offshoot of Scotch-Irish or similar, I found myself in Norfolk, England. Since that is East Anglia of old, that population would seem to be derived from Danes mostly. Hmm...

Fake news isn't only limited to the media. It also lurks in family trees. To narrow it down, regarding my above (plausible) direct maternal line, I came to a Martha Pendleton, born 1640 in steamy malarial tidewater Virginia. The problem is that all her brothers and sisters, both older and younger, were born in Norwich, Norfolk, England. Her parents were born and died there. I see no evidence that that family (other than Martha) were ever in Virginia at that early date spread. Now the Pendleton family appears to have originated in Lancashire, although I haven't looked very hard. Lancashire would be a better fit for my U5b2b2, it seems to me. Now this Martha Pendleton, who I think really existed, married somebody Sherwood, supposedly in Virginia in 1658. But he died in Maryland. Anyway, I'm wondering if whether or not she belongs to the Lancashire branch of the Pendletons. I sure can't find out by looking in Ancestry and Family Search sites.

later: Forget the Pendletons! I pruned that branch and did some more research. And now I end up for my earliest known (plausible) direct maternal ancestor is Hannah Brown, born in Warwick, England. Or rather I assume she was born there since there is a marriage record of her being married there. But it is the west of England where I would look for my U5b2b2.

still later: looking closer, I have to retreat another generation to Sarah Hawksford, 1688 Staffordshire, England - 1761 Orange County, Virginia. Although her mother is still Hannah, I can't find anything else at present.

still later yet: a confusing back tracking to Lydia Atkinson Hollingsworth, born anywhere from 1630 to 1650. She and her husband Hollingsworth are recorded as arriving at New Castle, Delaware from Ireland as Irish Quakers. But I don't see that given in any tree. Maybe this is new information. Well, if she really is my most distant direct maternal ancestor, it explains all of my Irish matches, etc.

rms2
08-12-2018, 11:08 PM
I don't know how the weather was in the 17th and 18th centuries, but the Tidewater never struck me as all that steamy. I lived there for a number of years. Admittedly, we had air conditioning, but I worked outside accoutered in a dark blue uniform and heavy kevlar bulletproof vest and often had to stand out in intersections and direct traffic in mid-July with the sun beating down.

I would describe the climate there as temperate. Sure, it's a lot hotter in the summer in the Tidewater than it is in Britain, but it's not steamy like, say, South Carolina. There are four distinct seasons. The two hot months are July and August. It begins to cool off in September.

Baltimore1937
08-13-2018, 09:51 AM
To continue, there may be a problem with the daughter of two different wives. While most favor the Irish Quaker wife, there was an underage wife before her. And she was born in Italy, not far from Rome. So rather than having an Irish earliest known maternal ancestor, I may have an Italian one instead. But who can believe hose trees when there are few records available? For some reason, William Augustus Jay was born 1630 in Italy. Maybe his family was on self exile for some reason. The poor Italian girl must have died very young, maybe from childbirth complications. That was in New York. How all that moved down to Virginia over a generation or two is not explained. Anyway, I do have a mysterious 1% Italian at Ancestry DNA. Might that be the reason? Hmm...

Baltimore1937
08-16-2018, 09:25 AM
To continue, there may be a problem with the daughter of two different wives. While most favor the Irish Quaker wife, there was an underage wife before her. And she was born in Italy, not far from Rome. So rather than having an Irish earliest known maternal ancestor, I may have an Italian one instead. But who can believe hose trees when there are few records available? For some reason, William Augustus Jay was born 1630 in Italy. Maybe his family was on self exile for some reason. The poor Italian girl must have died very young, maybe from childbirth complications. That was in New York. How all that moved down to Virginia over a generation or two is not explained. Anyway, I do have a mysterious 1% Italian at Ancestry DNA. Might that be the reason? Hmm...

Forget the above. I got sidetracked into a false line. Now I am back to where I was. My connection to a colonial era female Pendleton is reinstated, although connected to a different branch of that family. and so on...

Baltimore1937
08-18-2018, 02:25 AM
Forget the above. I got sidetracked into a false line. Now I am back to where I was. My connection to a colonial era female Pendleton is reinstated, although connected to a different branch of that family. and so on...

Then again, it looks like I cannot transfer Martha Pendleton to the New England branch of Pendleton after all. She was born too early to fit in. Maybe that Norfolk, England family went to Virginia, and then decided to return to Norfolk later? Hmm...

Here's an interesting site:

http://www.jamestowne.org

Baltimore1937
09-02-2018, 08:06 AM
Getting a match to my U5b2b2/G228A at FTDNA is rare. But I recently got two of them, one a genetic distance of 3, and the other a genetic distance of one! They seem to be loosely associated with each other by a surname that I don't recognize from my researches. I guess I shouldn't reveal the names in question in public, so I can't speculate more about them here. But the HVR1 and HVR2 are the same as mine. So that G228A mutation must be quite old to have both a genetic distance of one and three in the coding region. Or it could have popped up on separate occasions. Hmm... I'll leave that to the experts.

mmhselig
12-31-2019, 06:26 AM
hi - I know this is WAAY old.

I recently started researching my maternal haplogroup - and came across your posts. According to 23 and me I am U5b2b. My mothers brother was tested years ago with National Geographic (or something similar?) and he said he was U5b2b2.

Anyways, I am messaging to say that I definitely DO have Orkney roots - from my maternal branch.

Im not sure if thats helpful - but I thought Id share.

M

Baltimore1937
01-01-2020, 02:22 AM
hi - I know this is WAAY old.

I recently started researching my maternal haplogroup - and came across your posts. According to 23 and me I am U5b2b. My mothers brother was tested years ago with National Geographic (or something similar?) and he said he was U5b2b2.

Anyways, I am messaging to say that I definitely DO have Orkney roots - from my maternal branch.

Im not sure if thats helpful - but I thought Id share.

M

Thanks for your interest. I haven't seen much interest in U5b2 lately. Orkneys looks suspiciously like Norse. I wouldn't be surprised that yours and mine came from Norway/Scandinavia.

Baltimore1937
01-31-2020, 09:31 AM
I got a rare new HVR2 with G228A match recently. It looks like she is midwest connected, so likely somehow related to my direct maternal line. Or rather her last name pops up in Ancestry matches, some of which are midwestern. This one is one genetic distance off. I have never seen one that matched me exactly, and think that it was a lab call. Way back when I got tested there was some problem with interpretation, like two peaks or something. So I may never ever see an exact match. And I have no intention of paying for another test.

cjok
02-04-2020, 08:12 PM
Hi,

I'm still alive and kickin'. My mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b2 (Phylotree). But there aren't many matches. So I expanded this thread a bit to the somewhat larger U5b2b group. My earliest (supposedly) known female ancestress was Charity (last name unknown), born about 1760 in the Anson-Richmond County area of North Carolina. Settlers there came from both northeast and northwest directions around 1750. Hmm...
B)

I'm new to the dna thing. I did my dna test at LivingDNA, but this is one of the few references I found to u5b2b2 so posting here for more info.

Baltimore1937
02-10-2020, 05:29 PM
Hi,

I'm still alive and kickin'. My mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b2 (Phylotree). But there aren't many matches. So I expanded this thread a bit to the somewhat larger U5b2b group. My earliest (supposedly) known female ancestress was Charity (last name unknown), born about 1760 in the Anson-Richmond County area of North Carolina. Settlers there came from both northeast and northwest directions around 1750. Hmm...
B)

This is now obsolete, in that my direct maternal line was found to go elsewhere. Back then I erroneously thought a brother to my actual line was my line, i.e. a different wife. So now my direct maternal line (different wife) goes back to Cynthia A. Lee for sure (1816-1856), and beyond that back to early Virginia and back to Norfolk, England.

Baltimore1937
03-24-2020, 07:21 AM
I keep getting the idea that my earliest speculated direct female ancestor may trace further back to Normandy. She was the unknown first wife, possibly first name Hannah, born about 1617 likely in Norwich, Norfolk, England. She married a Mister Pendleton whose first name escapes me. The point is that they were upper class, and therefore likely to stem from Anglo-Normans.

Baltimore1937
03-29-2020, 10:47 AM
I keep getting the idea that my earliest speculated direct female ancestor may trace further back to Normandy. She was the unknown first wife, possibly first name Hannah, born about 1617 likely in Norwich, Norfolk, England. She married a Mister Pendleton whose first name escapes me. The point is that they were upper class, and therefore likely to stem from Anglo-Normans.

A little more data or rather other peoples' trees popped up since then. But I don't the how accurate they are. What looks valid is that her daughter, Martha Pendleton, went to Virginia with an elder brother and apparently an unknown adult included them as his responsibility. That means there is no apparent record of their arrival in Virginia since they were just a number, so to speak. A Philip Pendleton, different mother, is recorded as arriving there years later. But Martha is my direct ancestor and would have had my U5b2b2, if my tree is accurate. She married a Mr. Sherwood.

Baltimore1937
04-06-2020, 03:03 AM
If you look up mtDNA haplogroup U and U5, U5b2 etc. at Eupedia, and go to the medical aspects of it, you will see that we are fortunate to be resistant to various maladies. Something to do, at least in part, to better survivability during the LGM (Ice Age). So I am wondering if some mtDNA haplogroups can withstand this new C-virus better than others.