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View Full Version : 13,000 years ago, one brother went to China and the other to Belarus



lgmayka
03-28-2015, 09:01 PM
Not exactly. :) I notice that YFull now has specific ages for N-L727 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L727/). Over 13,000 years ago, N-L727 split into two subclades. One is present among the Han Chinese, while the other has been found in Belarus and Poland. These latter two diverged over 8000 years ago, suggesting that the N-L732 subclade has been in Europe at least that long.

Another N-L731 (from the southeast Baltic coast (http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/30/Krzewiny.html)) is still waiting for his Big Y results.

alan
03-28-2015, 09:27 PM
Not exactly. :) I notice that YFull now has specific ages for N-L727 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L727/). Over 13,000 years ago, N-L727 split into two subclades. One is present among the Han Chinese, while the other has been found in Belarus and Poland. These latter two diverged over 8000 years ago, suggesting that the N-L732 subclade has been in Europe at least that long.

Another N-L731 (from the southeast Baltic coast (http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/30/Krzewiny.html)) is still waiting for his Big Y results.

I have been saying for a while that I suspected some N to be linked to the spread of pressure flaked microblades into north-east Europe/the Baltic/NWRussia c. 9500-8000BC, ultimately from a refugium around Altai in the LGM. So this would fit.

Hector
04-07-2015, 07:43 PM
... One is present among the Han Chinese, while the other has been found in Belarus and Poland. These latter two diverged over 8000 years ago, suggesting that the N-L732 subclade has been in Europe at least that long.

Another N-L731 (from the southeast Baltic coast (http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/30/Krzewiny.html)) is still waiting for his Big Y results.

Another thoroughly entertaining piece from the former moderator of DNA-forums who tried to regulate how many dots should be used in an ellipsis.
N-F2905 clade is multiply rooted in East Asia at 5 consecutive levels. Even L732 is found among Koreans at a quite significant frequency.
In fact it is even more East Asian than N1c clade.
All East Asian N samples at YFull are either from 1000genome or Geno 2.0 and the sampling is clearly very biased.

parastais
10-09-2015, 07:56 PM
Not exactly. :) I notice that YFull now has specific ages for N-L727 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L727/). Over 13,000 years ago, N-L727 split into two subclades. One is present among the Han Chinese, while the other has been found in Belarus and Poland. These latter two diverged over 8000 years ago, suggesting that the N-L732 subclade has been in Europe at least that long.

Another N-L731 (from the southeast Baltic coast (http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/30/Krzewiny.html)) is still waiting for his Big Y results.

So, 6 months later, is this still a thing?


I have been saying for a while that I suspected some N to be linked to the spread of pressure flaked microblades into north-east Europe/the Baltic/NWRussia c. 9500-8000BC, ultimately from a refugium around Altai in the LGM. So this would fit.
This one is now changed to R1a, right?

lgmayka
10-11-2015, 10:11 PM
So, 6 months later, is this still a thing?
About the same as before. The additional N-L731 is only 850 years apart from the first-found one. See YFull's haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L727/).

Shaikorth
10-15-2015, 08:29 PM
An alternative I've considered is that the oddball N-lineages N-L272 and N-P189.2 could be steppe arrivals from as late as Iron Age. P189.2 so far has been found in a pre-Scythian culture and (according to Genetiker) from one of the more recent steppe samples. The earliest N found in Europe as of now is N1c1 (which is presently totally absent from the ancient DNA of the steppe/South Siberia) from Smolensk region 4500 bp, not one of these rare branches.

lgmayka
10-15-2015, 11:17 PM
An alternative I've considered is that the oddball N-lineages N-L272 and N-P189.2 could be steppe arrivals from as late as Iron Age.
YFull estimates the TMRCA of N-P189.2 at 4100 ybp (http://yfull.com/tree/N-P189.2/). Since N-P189.2 has never been found outside of Europe, the TMRCA suggests that N-P189.2 arrived in Europe at least 4100 years ago.

Kit N14100 of Italy appears to be much more distant from the others (judging by Y-STRs), but is no longer interested in spending money on Y-DNA testing; so we can't get a better TMRCA of N-P189.2 unless a donor offers to pay for his Big Y test.