View Full Version : Pamjav, Fehér, Németh and Pádár 2012

Jean M
10-31-2012, 10:01 AM
Congratulations to the authors of Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1 (http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/ajpa.22167), American Journal of Physical Anthropology, online ahead of print: 31 OCT 2012

Haplogroup R1a1-M198 is a major clade of Y chromosomal haplogroups which is distributed all across Eurasia. To this date, many efforts have been made to identify large SNP-based subgroups and migration patterns of this haplogroup. The origin and spread of R1a1 chromosomes in Eurasia has, however, remained unknown due to the lack of downstream SNPs within the R1a1 haplogroup. Since the discovery of R1a1-M458, this is the first scientific attempt to divide haplogroup R1a1-M198 into multiple SNP-based sub-haplogroups. We have genotyped 217 R1a1-M198 samples from seven different population groups at M458, as well as the Z280 and Z93 SNPs recently identified from the “1000 Genomes Project”.

The two additional binary markers present an effective tool because now more than 98% of the samples analyzed assign to one of the three sub-haplogroups. R1a1-M458 and R1a1-Z280 were typical for the Hungarian population groups, whereas R1a1-Z93 was typical for Malaysian Indians and the Hungarian Roma. Inner and Central Asia is an overlap zone for the R1a1-Z280 and R1a1-Z93 lineages. This pattern implies that an early differentiation zone of R1a1-M198 conceivably occurred somewhere within the Eurasian Steppes or the Middle East and Caucasus region as they lie between South Asia and Eastern Europe. The detection of the Z93 paternal genetic imprint in the Hungarian Roma gene pool is consistent with South Asian ancestry and amends the view that H1a-M82 is their only discernible paternal lineage of Indian heritage.

10-31-2012, 05:05 PM
Congratulations to the authors of...

Probably you are kidding. Look at TMRCAs they published.

R1a1-M458 7,306 ± 2,321 years
R1a1-Z280 10,283 ± 2,574 years
R1a1-Z93 10,272 ± 2,187 years

And compare with TMRCA in Rozhanskii/Klyosov publication (http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=21698).

Jean M
10-31-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm just thrilled to have a publication out on the new SNPs in a refereed journal. :) As is so often the way, I don't necessarily agree with all the interpretation of the data. I don't go along with the "Evolutionary Effective" mutation rate that was used by Underhill et al 2010. This new paper is in line with Underhill, which is a long way from making sense to me.

The important point is that have we have an academic paper stating what everyone in the R1a1a and Subclades Y-DNA Project has known for some time: Ra1a1a divides into an Asian lineage and a European one.

Jean M
11-01-2012, 11:22 AM
One of the authors explains why they were forced to use the "evolutionary" mutation rate in the equivalent thread on English Molgen (http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=684).

11-02-2012, 12:28 AM
One of the authors explains why they were forced to use the "evolutionary" mutation rate in the equivalent thread on English Molgen (http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=684).
For me personally the whole situation with the publication sounds like "back to the USSR". Unfortunately, this still occurs today and in "academic circles". I do feel bad for the authors and I express my sympathy to all of us avid amateurs who want to move forward. Hopefully, time will "tear down this wall" (Zh rates).