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View Full Version : N1a1 , indigeonous to Europe or not?



vettor
04-03-2015, 06:01 PM
from wiki

Critics of these studies claim that the LBK N1a specimens could have derived from local communities established in Europe before the introduction of farming. Ammerman's team voiced concern due to some of the LBK specimens coming from communities several hundred years after farming was first established in the region;[8] a rebuttal was given.[9] In 2010, researchers led by Palanichamy conducted a genetic and phylogeographic analysis of N1a. Based on the results, they conclude that some of the LBK samples were indigenous to Europe while others may have resulted from 'leapfrog' colonization.[1] Deguilloux's team agreed with Haak's conclusion on a genetic discontinuity between ancient and modern Europeans. However, they consider demic diffusion, cultural diffusion, and long-distance matrimonial exchanges all equally plausible explanations for the current genetic findings.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N1a_%28mtDNA%29

I saw that the Haak 2015 paper has many N1a1 mtdna in central germany..........I was wondering with their ages, was it a one trip journey into Germany from anatolia/caucasus/levant or was/is there a trail ..............It seems to me if it is a one step journey, it was a long hike for these women, then again, maybe they where all born in central germany and N1a1 ( mtdna ) was there ( central europe) much earlier than the date indicated below.

below is Haak samples from his recent paper

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/meissen_zpseejsi6bl.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/meissen_zpseejsi6bl.jpg.html)

what about the other odd Mtdna?
pre-X2d1
and
H1bz .......................with this marker was also found H46b

vettor
04-07-2015, 05:53 AM
As BritshDNA calls N1a1 .............the Pot Makers

below is more on N1a1

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/10/304

FredH
06-02-2016, 11:21 AM
from wiki

Critics of these studies claim that the LBK N1a specimens could have derived from local communities established in Europe before the introduction of farming. Ammerman's team voiced concern due to some of the LBK specimens coming from communities several hundred years after farming was first established in the region;[8] a rebuttal was given.[9] In 2010, researchers led by Palanichamy conducted a genetic and phylogeographic analysis of N1a. Based on the results, they conclude that some of the LBK samples were indigenous to Europe while others may have resulted from 'leapfrog' colonization.[1] Deguilloux's team agreed with Haak's conclusion on a genetic discontinuity between ancient and modern Europeans. However, they consider demic diffusion, cultural diffusion, and long-distance matrimonial exchanges all equally plausible explanations for the current genetic findings.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N1a_%28mtDNA%29

I saw that the Haak 2015 paper has many N1a1 mtdna in central germany..........I was wondering with their ages, was it a one trip journey into Germany from anatolia/caucasus/levant or was/is there a trail ..............It seems to me if it is a one step journey, it was a long hike for these women, then again, maybe they where all born in central germany and N1a1 ( mtdna ) was there ( central europe) much earlier than the date indicated below.

below is Haak samples from his recent paper

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/meissen_zpseejsi6bl.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/meissen_zpseejsi6bl.jpg.html)

what about the other odd Mtdna?
pre-X2d1
and
H1bz .......................with this marker was also found H46b

It 's interesting to note that I mt haplogroup (aka N1a1b2) is a subclade of N1a , and we found several I3a mt aDNA still in Germany (all Unetice Culture in Germany 2000 BC ) did they have a common origin from Western Asia with the LBK samples N1a1a 5000BC?
see Haak 2015 same Table2 p25