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Dr_McNinja
04-08-2015, 02:24 PM
New study:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0122968

Frequency map:

http://i.imgur.com/Q6mMdoP.jpg

Diversity map:


http://i.imgur.com/jMoXk8D.jpg

parasar
04-08-2015, 03:35 PM
I think the map they have (from Oransky) with Media shown is absurd. The early Medes, IMO, are to be identified with a portion of the Umman Manda, specifically the Mitanni in the Aleppo area.

As to the spread of G1 with from Iran to Central Asia with Persian expansion, that makes sense, but that is a secondary expansion completely unrelated to the PIE issue.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g001
Oransky I. Map 1. Southwest Asia, Iran and Central Asia in the VI. BC. Introduction to Iranian philology. Moscow: Publishing House of Oriental Literature; 1960. p. 62–3 (In Russian)

palamede
04-08-2015, 04:15 PM
The authors tried to estimate a mutation rate according to the supposed kept genealogy of the Argyns and they take the reference of 1385 AD for the birthes of the sons of Karakhoja supposed the ancestor of majority of Argyn clans and Karakhoja's brother the ancestor of the other Argyn clans. It seems strange to refer to this legendary genealogy for scientific calculations, this reminds Gengis Khan supposed ancestor of a big branch of C2 or an O'Neill king supposed ancestor of the M222 branch of R1b-L21 and other very rough approximation.

One century before 1385AD, the Argyns were refered by Marco Polo who "says that the prevailing tribe of that country are Argon Christians (i.e. Argyns), which means Basmul." and "Mahmut Kashgari (11th century) listed Basmyls as one of ten prominent Turkic tribes, enumerating location of the Türkic polities from the borders of Greece to the borders of China in the following sequence: Bechen (Badjinak), Kyfchak (Kipchak), Oguz, Yemek (Kimek), Bashgyrt (Bashkort), Basmyl, Kai, Yabaku, Tatars, Kyrgyz. He also noted that the tribes Kai, Yabaku, Tatar, and Basmyl are bilingual, speaking in Türkic alongside their own languages".

Bechen (Badjinag) are Pechenegs or Patzinaks.

We can suppose Argyns/Basmyl had spoken an iranian language (surviving in 11th century AD) before Turkic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmyl

palamede
04-08-2015, 04:20 PM
I think the map they have (from Oransky) with Media shown is absurd.

In fact the label of this map is
"A) Area populated by Iranic speakers in the middle of the first millennium BC. States whose languages belonged to the Iranic and Armenian linguistic groups are shown in red (modified from [39])."

Táltos
04-08-2015, 04:24 PM
The authors tried to estimate a mutation rate according to the supposed kept genealogy of the Argyns and they take the reference of 1385 AD for the birthes of the sons of Karakhoja supposed the ancestor of majority of Argyn clans and Karakhoja's brother the ancestor of the other Argyn clans. It seems strange to refer to this legendary genealogy for scientific calculations, this reminds Gengis Khan supposed ancestor of a big branch of C2 or an O'Neill king supposed ancestor of the M222 branch of R1b-L21 and other very rough approximation.

They at least put this statement in:

Though there is no historical evidence for the existence of Argyn

palamede
04-08-2015, 04:38 PM
Opinion of Ray Banks (Main responsible people of the G project).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/9995363812/

Elliot Greenspan (Affiliation: Gene by Gene, Ltd., Houston, Texas, United States of America) is stated of one of the authors of the paper

RCO
04-17-2015, 10:15 AM
Some Iranic G1 speakers could easily be Proto-Indo-European just like we have some basal types of J1 and J2 clearly associated with ancient and modern Iranic speakers. Let's remember the Proto-Turkic, the Proto-Afroasiatic and Proto-Semitic, the Proto-Uralic, they were all originally spoken in some original core areas and expanded to distant areas and new frontiers to give differentiated protolanguages. The modern frontiers incorporated and assimilated new populations and new derived haplogroups quite different from the original speakers and the basal founders. In the case of the J haplogroup and specially in the ancient Iranian J1 types we only need to investigate the basal Y full sequences of the first Northern Iranian basal J1 branches to understand the association with the same Iranian maps of the G1 frequences and concentrations.

Caspian
04-19-2015, 07:03 AM
This and L1b are very common in Northeast Anatolian and Western Georgian (or Southwestern Caucasian) populations (Armenian Hemshin, Laz, Mingrelian, Pontic Greek etc. ) as mysterious. I think G1 and L1b could be related in there.

Look at the FTDNA Hemshin project.
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Hemshin/default.aspx?section=yresults

Renfrew hypotesis about G1 seems more logical.

Megalophias
04-21-2015, 08:18 PM
This gives us a huge set of G1 SNPs. I compared them to the paltry 3 G1 samples in Hallast et al 2014 (quite a few of the "newly reported in this study" SNPs were scooped by Hallast).

The Nepalese G1 man (nep-0191) shares 2 SNPs with the Bashkir-Armenian G1-GG313 branch and 6 with the G1-GG265 Armenian branch, which suggests a split from the Armenian clade on the order of 5000 years ago, give or take a couple of millennia.

The other two Hallast samples, ire-0093 and bav-55, form a clade. This Irish-Bavarian branch shares 3 SNPs with the G1-L1324 Kazakh-Mongol branch of Balanovsky, but nothing downstream, so this must be quite an old divergence, maybe 7000 years ago or so.

The position of the West Indian G1-GG362 branch identified by Balanovsky as being basal to all the rest is curious. It shares 3 SNPs with the Irish-Bavarian clade of Hallast and 2 SNPs specifically with ire-0093. I'm not sure what this means - possibly the Indian branch should actually be grouped with the Kazakh-Mongol branch.

So maybe something like:

G1-M285
-----G1a-F1761
-----------G1a1-GG133
------------------G1a1a-L1324
-------------------------G1a1a1-L1323/GG118 (Kazakhs 1-9 from Balanovsky)
--------------------------------G1a1a1a-Y12252/GG095 (Kazakhs 7 and 9, YF02842, YF02990)
-------------------------G1a1a2-GG001 (Mongol 1)
------------------G1a1b-GG372
-------------------------G1a1b1* (bav-55 from Germany)
-------------------------G1a1b1a
--------------------------------G1a1b1a* (ire-0093 from Ireland)
--------------------------------G1a1b1a1-GG362 (GIH NA20858 and NA20870 from western India)
-----------G1a2-GG313
------------------G1a2a-GG281
-------------------------G1a2a* (nep-0093 from Nepal)
-------------------------G1a2a1-GG265 (Armenians 1-6)
------------------G1a2b-GG162 (Bashkirs 1-3)
-----G1b-L830 (YF02011, origin not given)

MattL
04-25-2016, 11:36 PM
Anyone know of any more recent G1 studies or anything new in general?

jingorex
05-26-2016, 11:09 PM
Why is there so little know about the G haplogroup?

Megalophias
05-27-2016, 12:56 AM
Why is there so little know about the G haplogroup?

We know lots about G, compared to most haplogroups. It only seems small compared to the insane level of detail we have about a few haplogroups, the ones which are common in the populations who do a lot of private testing.

Arthur
12-16-2016, 03:08 PM
I am G1 L1324 have traced a common ancestor back to 1600 england but it looks like G1 is pretty rare in europe for the most part.

Ive heard of a book called 'from scythia to camelot' that poses a theory of scyhthian cavalry recruited by marcus arelius to pacify the island early on but its a $40 book so not that interested in what could be just a wild theory.

Anyone know of more solid evidence?

evon
12-16-2016, 05:01 PM
We have a G1 match, he never replied to my message, but I assume he is part European and part something else due to his closeness and his likely European mtDNA linage...

Male
3rd to 4th Cousin
0.87% shared, 4 segments
U5b1b1 G1*