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Passa
04-14-2015, 03:49 PM
Here it is.

Passa
04-14-2015, 04:43 PM
Artmar made me notice that the Gulf area is not well defined. I fixed the map.

Passa
04-14-2015, 04:50 PM
I'm also disappointed because the uploaded image's quality is much worse than on my (and on yours I guess) PC.

parasar
04-14-2015, 05:07 PM
Here it is.

For the SE corner of India - specifically the state of Tamil Nadu - for a sample set of 1680 covering 31 populations the overall %age of R1a was found to be 12.74%.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0050269.t002

Megalophias
04-14-2015, 06:03 PM
When people make these kind of maps do they weight by population of the subgroups sampled?

In that study of Tamil Nadu 570/1680 (34%) of samples were hill tribes. According to the 2011 census 1.1% of the population was Scheduled Tribes. Likewise 154/1680 (9.2%) were Scheduled Castes in the study, but in 2011 were 20% of the population. Another source says that 13% of the population were upper caste, 7% Brahmins, so the last is about right (135/1680 = 8%). I have no idea how to weight the other categories.

If we weight the results by these figures and put the rest of the population at the average rate of the middle/upper caste groups, then the result is 16% R1a. In this case it is not far off. If you were looking at some rarer haplogroup, like F*, the study average would be 16%, but the weighted amount only 5%.

If you take the figures for East India (drawn from Jharkand, Orissa, and West Bengal) from Trivedi, 50% are Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribal people, but Scheduled Tribes make up only 26% of the population of Jharkand, 22% of Orissa, and 6% of West Bengal. So if you took the raw average from Trivedi you would colour East India 33% O2, when the true figure should be considerably less than half of that.

parasar
04-14-2015, 06:38 PM
When people make these kind of maps do they weight by population of the subgroups sampled?

In that study of Tamil Nadu 570/1680 (34%) of samples were hill tribes. According to the 2011 census 1.1% of the population was Scheduled Tribes. Likewise 154/1680 (9.2%) were Scheduled Castes in the study, but in 2011 were 20% of the population. Another source says that 13% of the population were upper caste, 7% Brahmins, so the last is about right (135/1680 = 8%). I have no idea how to weight the other categories.

If we weight the results by these figures and put the rest of the population at the average rate of the middle/upper caste groups, then the result is 16% R1a. In this case it is not far off. If you were looking at some rarer haplogroup, like F*, the study average would be 16%, but the weighted amount only 5%.

If you take the figures for East India (drawn from Jharkand, Orissa, and West Bengal) from Trivedi, 50% are Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribal people, but Scheduled Tribes make up only 26% of the population of Jharkand, 22% of Orissa, and 6% of West Bengal. So if you took the raw average from Trivedi you would colour East India 33% O2, when the true figure should be considerably less than half of that.

Unfortunately weighting is not done.
Thankfully for a relatively balanced large data-set like Arunkumar's TN one it comes up about right.

For eastern India if you add in Bihar, it gets even more skewed. Bihar populations are almost all R (R1a, R2) and H, with some C, J, G, and L, but almost no O.

newtoboard
04-15-2015, 12:06 AM
I think including the Tarim would be helpful too.

Humanist
04-15-2015, 12:28 AM
Here it is.

What are the sources for your frequencies?

parasar
04-15-2015, 03:38 AM
Artmar made me notice that the Gulf area is not well defined. I fixed the map.

I would also add that the Sindh region has consistently come up with ~50% R1a1.
Sengupta et al., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/table/TB3/
Qamar et al., HG3 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC447589/table/TB2/
Firasat: "The highest frequency of R1a1* was observed in the Mohanna (71.4%) [of Sindh] and lowest in the Parsi (7.8%). Other populations with appreciable (>50%) frequency of R1a1* included the Kashmiri (58.3%), Punjabi caste (56.7%), and Sindhi (51.4%)." http://prr.hec.gov.pk/Thesis/1026S.pdf

In fact up and down the Indo-Gangetic plains the levels are in the neighborhood of 50%.

MonkeyDLuffy
04-16-2015, 09:43 AM
What is the likely origin of R1a1a in South asia? I am R1a1a and I know lots of Punjabis on 23&me with same Ydna, looks like it is really common among us.

Artmar
04-16-2015, 05:46 PM
What is the likely origin of R1a1a in South asia? I am R1a1a and I know lots of Punjabis on 23&me with same Ydna, looks like it is really common among us.
For the most - introduction through Indo-Iranic speaking people. For the rest, probably Turko-Mongol migrations and some prehistoric movements of groups of hunters-gatherers.

MonkeyDLuffy
04-16-2015, 06:14 PM
For the most - introduction through Indo-Iranic speaking people. For the rest, probably Turko-Mongol migrations and some prehistoric movements of groups of hunters-gatherers.

But isn't there a theory about R1a1a originating in South Central Asia?

Artmar
04-17-2015, 08:42 AM
But isn't there a theory about R1a1a originating in South Central Asia?
Are you asking about genesis of R1a* itself? Most likely Asia but it's hard to say where exactly. Judging by the genetic makeup of remains of Mal'ta R* boy, that was rather northern part, Siberia.

Passa
05-04-2015, 12:58 PM
I fixed Tamil Nadu and the Sindh region4472

ADW_1981
05-04-2015, 01:20 PM
Since when does Turkey have 10%+ levels of R1a1? I'm sure it's well under 10%. There might be some minority tribe of Kurd that has 15% or more, but it's certainly not the norm.

Passa
05-04-2015, 02:37 PM
The Turkish average is ca. 7%. The higher frequencies are found in Kurdish territory and around it. http://isnblog.ethz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/kurdish_86.gif
http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Cinnioglu2004.pdf

Mamluk
05-04-2015, 04:23 PM
Here it is.

Nice map, and I realize it is a work-in-progress, but if you would permit me to be so nitpicky--

In regards to south and central Asia you display gradations in specific areas but in the Arabian peninsula you do not.

In regards to the Arabian peninsula, I would have left it completely blank, especially the Rub' al-Khali ("the Empty Quarter"), except for the city of Mecca and some coastal areas along the Persian Gulf displaying the 1-5% shade.

For the east Mediterranean coast I would have shaded 1-5% around Lebanon and western Syria, leaving the Negev and Syrian deserts blank (where Syria, Jordan and Iraq's borders intersect).

This is just a suggestion, and I have not reviewed the data tables within the past few months.

:ranger: