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BalkanKiwi
04-17-2015, 08:37 PM
This is probably more directed at those with ancestry from England, Ireland and Scotland but anyone can answer. Of those with English and Danish ancestry for example, how did you confirm the Danish? Did you manage to find a paper trail going quite a distance back? Or did you use a combination of Gedmatch, ancestor location in England and length of shared segments with others from that country to make an assumption to say yes, there is a good chance I have Danish/Scandinavian ancestry?

This question is relevant for anyone with ancestry from Norway and Sweden as well :)

GoldenHind
04-17-2015, 10:41 PM
I don't think this will be of much help to you, but I have been aware of my Scandinavian ancestry ever since I can remember. Two of my father's grandparents were born in Denmark, and my mother had a grandfather who was born in Denmark and a grandmother born in Sweden. I have done some genealogical research on all of them. I think that most of the Scandinavians who emigrated to America did so in the last half of the 19th century, as did mine, so it is not a distant memory. My mother cooked Danish and Swedish recipes handed down in the family quite often, and I am still very fond of them. I even had Frikadeller last week.

falconson1
04-18-2015, 03:46 AM
At Williamson (my mother's surname) family reunions the elder members always emphasized that we were Norwegian - that the surname Williamson was really "Valdhelmsen". Turns out that the latter was incorrect, but the Norwegian origin of the surname was correct.

The Williamsons were from the Shetland Islands, and were Mathewson, Larenson, Thomason etc. back to the 1500s where they were Norn speaking udallers (crofters, shepherds, and fishermen). The genealogy is from highly educated Williamsons and Mathewsons from the 19th Century residing in our home village of Gardie, MId Yell, Shetland. My uncle's Y chromosome is R1a1 - "New Scandinavian" and almost all his non Shetland matches are in Norway and Sweden.

My uncle and I match a 4th cousin in Shetland whose 4 grandparents were born there. All of us match a Norwegian on the very same segment, and at the predicted 4th cousin level. So autosomal evidence.

It would be more difficult to prove the Scandinavian heritage of my father's parents who were born in the Danelaw - in coastal East Anglia.

Gray Fox
04-18-2015, 04:19 AM
I've only traced with reasonable certainty, a couple of family lines that I believe are ultimately Scandinavian in origin. Both of them are also Scottish. As far as how I made these discoveries, it was sheer luck, plain and simple. I just happened to stumble upon someone elses hard work. That isn't always the case, so I am especially grateful for these gems.

The two lines both belong to Scandinavian associated clades, R1a-L488 and I1-M253. The I1 fellow ultimately traces back to northern Scotland and bears the surname Caudill. The R1a fellow has the surname Reid, but I cannot determine his location for certain.

BalkanKiwi
04-18-2015, 04:23 AM
At Williamson (my mother's surname) family reunions the elder members always emphasized that we were Norwegian - that the surname Williamson was really "Valdhelmsen". Turns out that the latter was incorrect, but the Norwegian origin of the surname was correct.

The Williamsons were from the Shetland Islands, and were Mathewson, Larenson, Thomason etc. back to the 1500s where they were Norn speaking udallers (crofters, shepherds, and fishermen). The genealogy is from highly educated Williamsons and Mathewsons from the 19th Century residing in our home village of Gardie, MId Yell, Shetland. My uncle's Y chromosome is R1a1 - "New Scandinavian" and almost all his non Shetland matches are in Norway and Sweden.

My uncle and I match a 4th cousin in Shetland whose 4 grandparents were born there. All of us match a Norwegian on the very same segment, and at the predicted 4th cousin level. So autosomal evidence.

It would be more difficult to prove the Scandinavian heritage of the three of my grandparents born in the Danelaw in England. Both of my father's parents were born in coastal East Anglia.

That surname spelling is interesting and probably shows the changes throughout the generations. I can only trace my Y DNA line back to the late 1700s in the Lincolnshire, which from what I read was part of Danelaw. My surname is Tomlinson which isn't Scandinavian. There is no way to prove with records my Y-DNA, or autosomal DNA, is Danish/Scandinavian, however I get 2% Scandinavian on 23andMe (a tiny amount) and 28% on FTDNA (no doubt mostly British), I get Danish on Eurogenes oracles, I have between 6-8.7cM Danish matches on 23andMe (a distant amount) and my ancestors were in a Danelaw region. Putting that all together I could guess I have a small amount of distant Danish ancestry with no hard evidence. I'm envious of those of you who have recent ancestry, making it easier to prove :)

Salkin
04-18-2015, 07:51 AM
Oh, it was pretty easy really... :heh:

PureEvil
04-18-2015, 10:00 AM
Not sure if I have any confirmed but I have people I share with that are heavily Scandinavian on 23andme and my Scandinavian percentage on my Ancestry Composition is 6%. Carlson is a surname I've seen(has a number of origins though) but I'm unsure on if I have any... Not as sure as Salkin on mine. :horn:

Helgenes50
04-18-2015, 10:47 AM
This is probably more directed at those with ancestry from England, Ireland and Scotland but anyone can answer. Of those with English and Danish ancestry for example, how did you confirm the Danish? Did you manage to find a paper trail going quite a distance back? Or did you use a combination of Gedmatch, ancestor location in England and length of shared segments with others from that country to make an assumption to say yes, there is a good chance I have Danish/Scandinavian ancestry?

This question is relevant for anyone with ancestry from Norway and Sweden as well :)

I am used to comparing my results with Eurogenes K36, IMO the Fennoscandian
brings good results.
Its level seems pretty high in Eastern England.

My mother who is Norman ( like me) has 12.85 % of it.
and 36 % of North Sea ( K15). This component peaks in Norway.

As Normand, most of my Nordic Ancestors came from Danelaw
This origin is confirmed in the place names and in the agricultural vocabulary.

BalkanKiwi
04-18-2015, 11:20 AM
I am used to comparing my results with Eurogenes K36, IMO the Fennoscandian
brings good results.
Its level seems pretty high in Eastern England.

My mother who is Norman ( like me) has 12.85 % of it.
and 36 % of North Sea ( K15). This component peaks in Norway.

As Normand, most of my Nordic Ancestors came from Danelaw
This origin is confirmed in the place names and in the agricultural vocabulary.

Interesting. I score 5.93% Fennoscandian and 30.49% North Sea on the K15. I should mention one of the surnames in my family tree is Hodgson, which apparently has Norse origin. The only surname in my tree that I know has Scandinavian origins.

alan
04-18-2015, 11:23 AM
If you dont love KAKAOBOLLS then some Scandinavian genes are clearly missing.

Mythtown
04-18-2015, 02:25 PM
I ran my maternal grandfather's STR results through the Sorenson database (http://www.smgf.org/) and all his few close matches were Swedish, despite his Durham/Northumberland genealogy back at least 275 years and archetypal English/Scot name, Bell. And 23andme claims I am "Norwegian" (plus French) despite no connection to Scandinavia in recent centuries.

Wulf Warrior
04-18-2015, 03:43 PM
My scandinavian connection is ancient.

My YDNA being R1a Z284, and my Grandfather ( mother's side ) being I1, and he and his lines are entirely Yorkshire as far back as the 1600's. There had to be some scandinavian in there somewhere, both lines go back to areas that were heavily Viking.

When I got my FTDNA YDNA results Big Y 67 - I had a 4 step match from a Norwegian bloke, whilst it doesn't mean anything in terms of relationship - It showed that I was looking to belong to a Scandinavian clade of R1a, as he was. The R1a Project confirmed this as Z284, and then the big Y has me matched to a lot of Norwegians and Swedes.

As for automosal DNA, K36 has me at 13% fennoscandian, and I do get a lot of Scandinavian in the oracle's for other calculators.

So it seemed clear that be it ancient or just distant, despite my direct paternal lines, there's some Norse blood in the veins.

falconson1
04-18-2015, 06:26 PM
I trust my genealogy with a great great grandfather being 3/4 Norn speaking Shetland Islands, his having a R1a1 - New Scandinavian signature found almost exclusively in a few western fjords of Norway, and having as a 3rd to 5th cousin on 23andMe someone with 4 grandparents born in Norway (same segment shared with uncle, and 4th cousin from Shetland).

What I am less inclined to believe is the "global" estimates of how much "Scandinavian" is in the genome. Ancestry.com says 13%, FTDNA says 37% - so which is it?

No study to date has been able to differentiate Danish (Viking) from Anglo - Saxon DNA. My paternal ancestors are from East Anglia. The Angles were from what is today Denmark, and so were the majority of Vikings who were responsible for the predominance of place names in the regions where my paternal ancestors resided (Danelaw). Wish we could be more precise, but I fear that we will be reliant on history (e.g., Venerable Bede) and archaeology more than genetics to permit any sort of accurate assessment of the genetic composition of the Danelaw today - unless with viable full genome analysis (my guess one year away), we can "see" differences more clearly.

Gray Fox
04-18-2015, 09:37 PM
I've only traced with reasonable certainty, a couple of family lines that I believe are ultimately Scandinavian in origin. Both of them are also Scottish. As far as how I made these discoveries, it was sheer luck, plain and simple. I just happened to stumble upon someone elses hard work. That isn't always the case, so I am especially grateful for these gems.

The two lines both belong to Scandinavian associated clades, R1a-L488 and I1-M253. The I1 fellow ultimately traces back to northern Scotland and bears the surname Caudill. The R1a fellow has the surname Reid, but I cannot determine his location for certain.

A bit of correction for the info from the following post. I've researched so many family lines that they often become blurred. The surname I meant to mention in the above post was not Caudill, but Calder. Also the family weren't I1-M253, they were I1*.

Also, on K36 I score 8.11% for Fennoscandian.

Scarlet Ibis
04-18-2015, 10:49 PM
Personally, I never have. As Falconson said, there isn't yet a great way to pinpoint Danish or Norwegian ancestry in those with predominant ancestry from the UK & Ireland, so unless I see a paper trail, I remain agnostic about it. When I put the Denmark flag in my postbit, it's just there because of the Danelaw, and because I liked the way the scenery in Denmark looked.

BalkanKiwi
04-18-2015, 11:10 PM
Personally, I never have. As Falconson said, there isn't yet a great way to pinpoint Danish or Norwegian ancestry in those with predominant ancestry from the UK & Ireland, so unless I see a paper trail, I remain agnostic about it. When I put the Denmark flag in my postbit, it's just there because of the Danelaw, and because I liked the way the scenery in Denmark looked.

Those are my feelings towards it. Based on what I've put together I may have Danish, Swedish and Norwegian ancestry, none of which I can prove. This is simply using Gedmatch, ancestral locations, matches on 23andMe and surnames. There is also a book on one of the Polish sides on my family that states the surname Brzoska may have Swedish origins.

Unfortunately my Y haplogroup isn't a straight forward Scandinavian one, however from what I understand R-U106 does have a presence in Scandinavia so its possible my Y-line came from Denmark to Lincolnshire/Danelaw. That's just assumption making.

Roaring
04-18-2015, 11:25 PM
Recently doing genelealogical research i wound out that my g-g-grandmother had maiden name Johanson and patronym Karlovna, i however score only 1.4 Scandinavian in 23andme, though have 11.4% broadly northern.

And about Fennoscandian, guys thats rather a Finnish marker than a Scandinavian, i have 24% but that's due to Northern Russian-Finnish gentical linc.

BalkanKiwi
04-19-2015, 12:13 AM
I should mention I have 26.9% broadly North European which I assume includes my Scottish and Welsh, which is still quite large. It probably includes some English anyway.

rivergirl
04-19-2015, 01:51 AM
My great grandmother on my maternal line was born in Copenhagen Denmark. I can trace her ancestry back to the early- mid 1700s in Denmark, through census and parish records. One of her maternal grandfathers was from Skane in Sweden, but I have not been able to determine exactly where.
We believe my great grandmothers father was possibly a Norwegian living in Copenhagen, though he is not listed on her baptism record.
My mothers best matches at the moment in FF are with a man from Copenhagen with Norwegian ancestry and a lady from Skane, but we can't determine the connection through our paper trails as yet. We also have good matches with others of all Norwegian ancestry.

We have some FF matches with people with Polish/Baltic ancestry, which could be connected to the Swedish Empire in the Baltic c1600/1700.

My mothers paternal line come from Co Clare in Ireland, but have close yDNA matches with men from Sweden. He is R1b L21>Z253. I don't know if thIs is a remnant of Vikings in Limerick or not.

I also have East Anglian ancestry on my maternal and paternal lines, both with paper trails back to mid 1700s.
One line is R1b U106>L48>Z7
Another other is I1>L338

BalkanKiwi
04-19-2015, 04:28 AM
My great grandmother on my maternal line was born in Copenhagen Denmark. I can trace her ancestry back to the early- mid 1700s in Denmark, through census and parish records. One of her maternal grandfathers was from Skane in Sweden, but I have not been able to determine exactly where.
We believe my great grandmothers father was possibly a Norwegian living in Copenhagen, though he is not listed on her baptism record.
My mothers best matches at the moment in FF are with a man from Copenhagen with Norwegian ancestry and a lady from Skane, but we can't determine the connection through our paper trails as yet. We also have good matches with others of all Norwegian ancestry.

We have some FF matches with people with Polish/Baltic ancestry, which could be connected to the Swedish Empire in the Baltic c1600/1700.

My mothers paternal line come from Co Clare in Ireland, but have close yDNA matches with men from Sweden. He is R1b L21>Z253. I don't know if thIs is a remnant of Vikings in Limerick or not.

I also have East Anglian ancestry on my maternal and paternal lines, both with paper trails back to mid 1700s.
One line is R1b U106>L48>Z7
Another other is I1>L338

On CoA on 23andMe, my closest Scandinavian matches are from Denmark. My largest matches are two 7.4cM matches on chromosome 1 (the only chromosome where my Scandinavian is located) and a 8.7cM and 8.3cM match. Still very small and distant numbers which is probably representative of how far back my potential ancestry goes. My largest Finnish match is 8cM and my largest Swedish is 7.8cM. The only other Scandinavian match I have on chromosome 1 is a Norwegian guy.

My maternal haplogroup is V so I'd expect to have some Finnish matches. Denmark seems like a reasonable option based on what I know without a paper trail.

rivergirl
04-19-2015, 06:40 AM
My mums match from Skane, Sweden has 36.72cM, longest block 14.56, on chromosome 19
My Aunt matches the same person with 50.82cM and longest block 27.64

My mums match with the Norwegian ancestry is 50.37cM and 27.44 longest block, on chromosome 1
My Aunt does not even match this guy.

My mum has another Norwegian match with 54.37cM, longest block 17.70, on chromosome 12
Aunt has different Norwegian match with 60.29 and longest block 17.35, on chromosome 14

All up for 2 sisters, my Aunt has a lot more Scandy and Eastern European matches than my mum.

Our MtDNA V is from Holbaek, Denmark.

One of our family lines migrated from Denmark to Manawatu in 1872 under the Vogel Migration Scheme/Public Works Scheme. There were many Norwegian, Swedish and some Danes in this group.
My relative eventually settled in Australia.

GailT
04-19-2015, 04:02 PM
I also had an easy search. My gg-grandfather was a sailor and wrote a short memoir about his voyages on the high seas and his service on the ironclads in the civil war. When I first started researching his ancestry I posted a question on a Norwegian genealogy discussion forum and received a response 15 minutes later from a 6th cousin in Norway.

Based on paper records my Dad is 1/8 Norwegian, 1/2 German, about 1/4 English, and 1/8 a mix less certain north western European (including Dutch, German and French). FTDNA MyOrigins shows him as 42% Scandinavian, 38% British Isles, and 20% Western and Central Europe. That's obviously incorrect. His 50% German ancestry is being incorrectly attributed to Scandinavian and British ancestry. FTDNA does not have a German reference population so "Scandinavian" and "British" might actually be German in many cases.

ADW_1981
04-19-2015, 05:40 PM
When I got my FTDNA YDNA results Big Y 67 - I had a 4 step match from a Norwegian bloke, whilst it doesn't mean anything in terms of relationship - It showed that I was looking to belong to a Scandinavian clade of R1a, as he was. The R1a Project confirmed this as Z284, and then the big Y has me matched to a lot of Norwegians and Swedes.


I'm under the impression it does though. A 4-step match is a lot closer than many of us R1b guys who were from more southern regions getting slaughtered by the church. My closest is 16 gd at 67 markers.

BalkanKiwi
05-09-2015, 11:27 PM
I thought I'd revisit this thread because with the help of Davidski, its likely my Scandinavian ancestry is southern Swedish with nearby Danish. On 23andMe Sweden covers 1.5% of my genome at 4 grandparents @5cM and I match mostly south Swedes on 23andMe and on Davidski's data. It would support why I get Danish and Swedish appearing on some Gedmatch calculators. There is a small amount of evidence mentioned in a book that one of my Polish lines originated from around the small Swedish island of Birka (Polish surname of the family is Brzoska). This island is near Stockholm and therefore in the southern part of Sweden.

With all this evidence I'm quite certain south Sweden makes sense :) Well certain as one can be without paper records :beerchug:

anglesqueville
05-10-2015, 07:58 AM
For normans who have got tested, the problem of scandinavian ancestry is sort of obsession. A few years ago, one of my cousins ( son of my mother's brother, 100% norman, like me), began to develop a passion for genetics. Finally two years ago he bought a big and expensive test for his Y, and discovered he was I1a. End of the story, the matter was closed. In fact, his passion for genetics was nothing but an only question: " Do I have scandinavian ancestors?".
Last week, as we were speaking about admixture calculators, I showed him two results (K10-steppes):

One: (mine)
36.80% Near_Eastern
0.01% East_Asian
1.12% Siberian
0.02% Oceanian
37.61% WHG-UHG
0.11% Sub-Saharan
3.07% Hindu_Kush
20.21% Steppe
1.06% Amerindian
0.00% Southeast_Asian

Two: (the same, but with 0 for Siberian and Amerindian)
36.80% Near_Eastern
0.01% East_Asian
0.00% Siberian
0.02% Oceanian
37.61% WHG-UHG
0.11% Sub-Saharan
3.07% Hindu_Kush
20.21% Steppe
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Southeast_Asian

The first result gives, for the best 4-ancestors Oracle, with only modern populations: Norwegian+Scottish+Scottish+Spain_EN @ 1,615477
The second one: English+English+English+Spain_MN @ 2,919247. "Well, I said, the first guy has obviously scandinavian ancestry. For the second one, not so obvious. Really?"
In my opinion, only people with an asserted scandinavian background can tell about their scandinavian ancestors, and there is no need of genetics for that. The others ( english, normans and northern french, dutch, northern german, etc) can only claim they are people from north-western europe. When a company (no name, everybody on here knows perfectly which I'm speaking about) tells you are x% scandinavian, that's a joke (or that's business).

BalkanKiwi
05-10-2015, 09:28 AM
For normans who have got tested, the problem of scandinavian ancestry is sort of obsession. A few years ago, one of my cousins ( son of my mother's brother, 100% norman, like me), began to develop a passion for genetics. Finally two years ago he bought a big and expensive test for his Y, and discovered he was I1a. End of the story, the matter was closed. In fact, his passion for genetics was nothing but an only question: " Do I have scandinavian ancestors?".
Last week, as we were speaking about admixture calculators, I showed him two results (K10-steppes):

One: (mine)
36.80% Near_Eastern
0.01% East_Asian
1.12% Siberian
0.02% Oceanian
37.61% WHG-UHG
0.11% Sub-Saharan
3.07% Hindu_Kush
20.21% Steppe
1.06% Amerindian
0.00% Southeast_Asian

Two: (the same, but with 0 for Siberian and Amerindian)
36.80% Near_Eastern
0.01% East_Asian
0.00% Siberian
0.02% Oceanian
37.61% WHG-UHG
0.11% Sub-Saharan
3.07% Hindu_Kush
20.21% Steppe
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Southeast_Asian

The first result gives, for the best 4-ancestors Oracle, with only modern populations: Norwegian+Scottish+Scottish+Spain_EN @ 1,615477
The second one: English+English+English+Spain_MN @ 2,919247. "Well, I said, the first guy has obviously scandinavian ancestry. For the second one, not so obvious. Really?"
In my opinion, only people with an asserted scandinavian background can tell about their scandinavian ancestors, and there is no need of genetics for that. The others ( english, normans and northern french, dutch, northern german, etc) can only claim they are people from north-western europe. When a company (no name, everybody on here knows perfectly which I'm speaking about) tells you are x% scandinavian, that's a joke (or that's business).

That's part of the reason why I can't justify buying the Big Y. I'm more interest in ancestry. Yes, you can use matches to solve ancestry puzzles but I'm not too concerned with all the detailed data that comes with it. I probably find geography the most interesting part of genealogy.

I'll mention a company for the sake of it. I'm sure many people with mostly British Isles ancestry think they are mostly Scandinavian when they see they have 30-60% on MyOrigins. When I was a newbie to DNA testing and I saw I had a reasonable amount of it I was excited but then sceptical. I'm glad I did 23andMe which gives me 2% and is much more reasonable. Over the last year I've tried to use multiple sources to confirm its legitimate. Both companies results, matches, Gedmatch calculators, Davidski's analysis and thoughts and info from a family tree book. As mine goes back at earliest the 900s, paper records won't help however I'm quite content with all of this info suggesting southern Sweden is accurate as can be :)

RazorBlade
05-31-2015, 06:31 AM
This is probably more directed at those with ancestry from England, Ireland and Scotland but anyone can answer. Of those with English and Danish ancestry for example, how did you confirm the Danish? Did you manage to find a paper trail going quite a distance back? Or did you use a combination of Gedmatch, ancestor location in England and length of shared segments with others from that country to make an assumption to say yes, there is a good chance I have Danish/Scandinavian ancestry?

This question is relevant for anyone with ancestry from Norway and Sweden as well :)

Travel and look at the mirror..do you see common features with the local populations of those countries.. That' is.. I have seen many British Islanders and White Americans who claim being largely viking but once I see their pictures they look nothing like a native scandinavian I've seen before..

EastAnglian
05-31-2015, 11:17 AM
Have you looked on Family Finder?, I match 6 Swedish people on there, so my Scandinavian seems to partly hail from that region.

The issue with Danish Vikings is that ethnically they are very similar to Germans, so any Danish could be mixed in with 'Western and Central Europe' on My origins. FTDNA gives me 15% Scandinavian, but I presume any Danish is mixed with my 33% WCE.

On Gedmatch (Eurogenes) my top ten are:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 4.29
2 Danish 5.52
3 West_German 5.84
4 Norwegian 5.85
5 Southeast_English 6.26
6 West_Norwegian 6.31
7 Swedish 6.38
8 Orcadian 6.46
9 North_German 6.5
10 Irish 6.63

So there's probably some Danish Viking in there.

Jenny
05-31-2015, 04:31 PM
On youtube and the BBC, Neil Oliver presented a great series called the Face of Britain. The info might be a bit dated now but he also says "look" in the mirror. It's a fun watch

gravetti
05-31-2015, 04:49 PM
In this way: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1758-First-Mesolithic-ancient-Y-DNA-is-I*-I2-and-I2a1b*/page3

RazorBlade
06-01-2015, 01:54 AM
On youtube and the BBC, Neil Oliver presented a great series called the Face of Britain. The info might be a bit dated now but he also says "look" in the mirror. It's a fun watch

A lot of those people who has significant score with danish vikings or northern germans/dutch dont look very germanic. SO I dont know how accurate are those eurogenes tests. Autosomal DNA proves British ISlanders are sill largely Brythonic, and that Angles, Saxons, Vikings or Normans didnt affect greatly the genepool

EastAnglian
06-01-2015, 07:00 PM
A lot of those people who has significant score with danish vikings or northern germans/dutch dont look very germanic. SO I dont know how accurate are those eurogenes tests. Autosomal DNA proves British ISlanders are sill largely Brythonic, and that Angles, Saxons, Vikings or Normans didnt affect greatly the genepool

I wouldn't say 'largely' Brythonic, I think 50-60% Celt in places like East Anglia. Although in some isolated Fenland communities that could be higher.

I agree with this analysis:

The majority of eastern, central and southern England is made up of a single, relatively homogeneous, genetic group with a significant DNA contribution from Anglo-Saxon migrations (10-40% of total ancestry). This settles a historical controversy in showing that the Anglo-Saxons intermarried with, rather than replaced, the existing populations.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles