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DMXX
11-11-2012, 04:09 AM
Note the West Eurasian lineages appear to be fairly similar to the mtDNA profile of the Baraba forest steppe (http://vaedhya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/secrets-of-central-asia-chapter-ii.html) post-Andronovo (K, J, T1 with the presumed U5a1 substrata).

It appears the people who swept eastwards towards Mongolia through Kazakhstan in the Iron Age bore maternal lineages that were West Eurasian in origin but ultimately mixed. A shame only HVRI mutations were listed, but the evidence thus far is quite compelling regarding the movement of people who likely spoke early Indo-European dialects.

The Dimension 1x2 plot attached at the bottom may be misleading as it doesn't fully represent modern West Eurasian populations; notice the absence of European reference groups as well as select others (i.e. the Kalash).



A recent discovery of Iron Age burials (Pazyryk culture) in the Altai Mountains of Mongolia may shed light on the mode and tempo of the generation of the current genetic east-west population admixture in Central Asia. Studies on ancient mitochondrial DNA of this region suggest that the Altai Mountains played the role of a geographical barrier between West and East Eurasian lineages until the beginning of the Iron Age. After the 7th century BC, coinciding with Scythian expansion across the Eurasian steppes, a gradual influx of East Eurasian sequences in Western steppes is detected. However, the underlying events behind the genetic admixture in Altai during the Iron Age are still unresolved: 1) whether it was a result of migratory events (eastward firstly, westward secondly), or 2) whether it was a result of a local demographic expansion in a ‘contact zone’ between European and East Asian people. In the present work, we analyzed the mitochondrial DNA lineages in human remains from Bronze and Iron Age burials of Mongolian Altai. Here we present support to the hypothesis that the gene pool of Iron Age inhabitants of Mongolian Altai was similar to that of western Iron Age Altaians (Russia and Kazakhstan). Thus, this people not only shared the same culture (Pazyryk), but also shared the same genetic east-west population admixture. In turn, Pazyryks appear to have a similar gene pool that current Altaians. Our results further show that Iron Age Altaians displayed mitochondrial lineages already present around Altai region before the Iron Age. This would provide support for a demographic expansion of local people of Altai instead of westward or eastward migratory events, as the demographic event behind the high population genetic admixture and diversity in Central Asia.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V789NL__x90/UJ6S8wxiiQI/AAAAAAAAHVA/OnpUe6_KmYk/s1600/journal.pone.0048904.t002.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BJ4MVr_4Df0/UJ6S-PcE6bI/AAAAAAAAHVI/f0NW5BtNJTM/s1600/journal.pone.0048904.t003.png



Ancient populations (in red): AMGBR- Mongolia Altai Bronze Age, present study; PAZMG1- Mongolia Altai, Pazyryk, present study; PAZMG2- Mongolia Altai, Pazyryk; EGOL - Mongolia, Egyin Gol; PAZRA- Rep. Altai, Pazyryk; BRNRA- Rep. Altai, Neolithic and Bronze Age; SBBR- Siberia, Bronze Age; SBIR- Siberia, Iron Age; KZBR- Kazakhstan, Bronze Age; KZIR- Kazakhstan, Iron Age; LAJ- Lajia; YUAN- Xinjiang; INMG- Inner Mongolia. Current populations (in black): CRT- Crimean Tartars; TURK- Turks; KZAZ- Kurds Zazaki; KKUR- Kurds Kurmanji; IRAN- Iraqis; KGEO- Georgians Kurds; GEOR- Georgians; KYR- Kirgiz; UZB- Uzbeks; KAZ- Kazaks; TURKM- Turkmens; TAJ- Tajiks; MONG- Mongols; TUV- Tuvans; TUB- Tubalars; ALT- Altaians; BUR- Buriats; KAL- Kalmiks; SIB- Siberians.



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[Link (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048904)]

GailT
11-11-2012, 05:35 AM
The two U5a1 samples appear to be U5a1d2b, which also has two GenBank samples GU123032, a Tatar from the Volga-Ural region and FJ147317 from NE Altai. There are similar test results at FTDNA for HVR with ancestry in Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Russia and India.

The sister clad U5a1d2a is found in Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Belarus, Buryat and Russia. U5a1d1 has samples from Ireland, Poland and Russia. There is a single U5a1d* sample possible from France.

Behar et al have an age estimate of about 15,000 years for U5a1d. I don't think we can predict its place of origin with any confidence from the samples available. An ice age refuge in Ukraine seems plausible, although there is plenty of time for a European origin and subsequent migration east.

Rathna
11-11-2012, 02:11 PM
On SMGF there are 18 haplotype K with 16093C 16224C 16311C 16319A 16519C.
One is from Palestine, the other above all from the British Isles. It is a little bit believable that this K comes from East (Europe, Caucasus, etc.).

Rathna
11-11-2012, 02:29 PM
On SMGF there are 18 haplotype K with 16093C 16224C 16311C 16319A 16519C.
One is from Palestine, the other above all from the British Isles. It is a little bit believable that this K comes from East (Europe, Caucasus, etc.).

Sigrist from Switzerland has the mutations:
16093C 16224C 16311C 16319A 16519C 073G 152C 199C 263G 309.1C 315,1C 524.1A 524.1C
14 British out of 18 descend from the same line (Stopes) with 199T (not mutated).

The haplotype is without any doubt North–Western European in its origin seen the presence there of close haplotypes.

Rathna
11-11-2012, 02:46 PM
Sigrist from Switzerland has the mutations:
16093C 16224C 16311C 16319A 16519C 073G 152C 199C 263G 309.1C 315,1C 524.1A 524.1C
14 British out of 18 descend from the same line (Stopes) with 199T (not mutated).

The haplotype is without any doubt North–Western European in its origin seen the presence there of close haplotypes.

It seems to be hg. K1b1a without 16463G.

DMXX
11-11-2012, 03:48 PM
Unsurprising, given the predominance of mtDNA U5a1 in Europe.

We know from the Molodin et al. study that various U subclades (including U5a1) were found just a few hundred kilometres west in the Baraba forest-steppe in 6-5kyo remains (date back to the Ust-Tartas period). (http://vaedhya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/secrets-of-central-asia-chapter-ii.html)

From a subclade POV, mtDNA U5a1 represents a common North Eurasian connection from Europe through to Mongolia in prehistoric times. The question is whether we'll see phylogenetic continuity as well through the HVR1 scores; does the Pazyryk U5a1 show any commonality with the Baraba forest-steppe?

GailT
11-12-2012, 02:27 AM
It is difficult to interpret the Molodin et al. results because they appear not to have sequenced the full HVR1 region. We need 16399 to identify U5a1 and we need 16526 to identify U5a2, so at best, we can only say that the samples were U5a.

Two of the samples have 16304: Pkr9 from Late Krotovo, and TA18 from Andronovo (Fedorovo) both with results listed as 192–256–270–304. So these samples could be U5a1d2b, but 16304 has also been found in both U5a2b and U5a2c, so these samples could be either U5a1 or U5a2, or perhaps some U5a* that we have not yet identified. For the Molodin results do be useful to evaluate continuity, they really need to provide more comprehensive results, at least the full HVR region and ideally the coding region as well.

newtoboard
02-19-2013, 04:05 PM
Its kind of insane that the Kazakh samples are fully West Eurasian considering how close geographically they were to Eastern groups.

DMXX
02-19-2013, 05:36 PM
^ Also note the ancient Kazakhs from the recent Sarkissian et al. paper were closest to Kabardinians (a Caucasian ethnic group) and were on the same trajectory as other West Asian populations:


http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003296.g002&representation=PNG_M

newtoboard
02-19-2013, 05:46 PM
Are you suggesting gene flow from South-Central Asia to Kazakhstan? So Can we eliminate any idea of either the Karasuk/Botai/Keltiminar cultures having having anything to do with uralic or altaic speakers? I think so.

DMXX
02-20-2013, 09:14 AM
I am suggesting precisely what the data is showing; the people of ancient Kazakhstan bore West Asian-Caucasian-like mtDNA. I do not think these people belonged to the BMAC or had origins in South-Central Asia. As far as I am aware, the BMAC never extended that far north.

newtoboard
02-20-2013, 05:49 PM
I am suggesting precisely what the data is showing; the people of ancient Kazakhstan bore West Asian-Caucasian-like mtDNA. I do not think these people belonged to the BMAC or had origins in South-Central Asia. As far as I am aware, the BMAC never extended that far north.

Yes but they could have had ancestry from there. There were mixed Andronovo-BMAC variants near the Aral Sea where Keltiminar (an offshoot of Deitun people who had taken on a nomadic lifestyle who were themselves an offshoot of North Iranian farmers) also reached.