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Passa
05-04-2015, 01:05 PM
My maternal ancestors are all from the Campania region and have been here for centuries. I'm T2b16*, which is not typical for Italy at all. I saw that it is found mainly in Estonia, Kazakhstan and especially among Volga Tatars. I have seen some cases in Germany, Poland and France, but I don't know how common it is in these regions. Does anyone know where can I find papers regarding this particular sub-clade? Thanks.

Shar
05-07-2015, 01:52 AM
Finally, I meet another T2b16. I did my mtDNA testing on 23andme and on Familytreedna. T2b on 23andme, and T2b16 on FTDNA. I tried looking up the Udmurts and the Volga Tatar region. I found some pictures of beautiful red-headed Udmurts. I am very curious about these migrations. I am blue eyed, had caramel colored hair as a child, and am fair complected, burn easily. My mother's mother was from Russia, and was Ashkenazi Jewish. She died before I was born, and my grandmother lost her speech due to stroke when I was three, so I wasn't able to get much in the way of family history. What I do know is that the mother/daughter relationships were strong, warm, and loving, and that my great grandmother was known for taking in people who were hungry, and serving in all sorts of service capacities at the beginning of 20th century. I also heard that her husband was difficult, but she looks strong and happy in all the photos. It is just so fascinating to think that we end up in our lives, in my case in Northern California, having traversed the millennia. I am the last of my mitochondrial line, so I am very interesting in learning anything -- even speculative. Thanks!

Passa
05-07-2015, 05:01 AM
Nice to meet you, Shar. Data on our haplogroup is very scarce, we don't even know how frequent T2b16 is in any part of the world. Eupedia linked T2b16 to the expansion of Abashevo towards the Urals, but who knows really.

By the way, I am also blue-eyed, fair-skinned and relatively fair-haired and sensitive to sun, but I don't think this has anything to do with me being T2b16.

Where was your mother's mother specifically from in Russia?

Passa
05-07-2015, 06:11 PM
These are my matches:

Bohatova from Moravia
Maria Elisabeth Nenn from Neustuednitz, Kr. Arnswalde, Pomerania/Pommern, Germany
Nicholas Romanov from St. Petersburg, Russia
Ingrid Monsdotter from Bjorrud, Värmland/Varmland, Sweden
Maria Mead from an unknown region, probably the British Isles
Madeleine Avrard from Montagne, Perche, France
Unknown surname, from Ireland

Shar
10-12-2015, 04:10 AM
1.1%
Eastern European

Northwestern European
0.2%
Scandinavian
0.9%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
3.6%
Broadly European
0.1%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.1%
Yakut
< 0.1%
Native American
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
0.1%
North African
0.1%
Unassigned
100%

I have found dna matches in Ireland, Poland, Lithuania, Switzerland, and more. Sorry I don't know this, but what is the source ofyour matches information names you list above? I stumbled onto the site last May, and only now rediscovered it. Is it a genome testing site? I remain very interested in anything about our haplogroup. Since many of my ancestors were Jewish, I was expecting a different Haplogroup, but to my surprise it was T2b on 23andme, and T2b16 on Family Tree DNA.

I do know that before coming to Germany where my father's side lived for hundreds of years, they had lived in France and Italy, -- we think. But on my mother's side, and her mother's mother I thought it was Russia. Maybe that's where the Volga Urals were connected. I looked at pictures of the region and it is beautiful. With cold winters and hot summers. I would love to know how long my ancestors lived there, if they in fact did live there. Given the high percentage of our haplogroup in the region, it's quite likely they did! - Shar in California:)

Shar
10-12-2015, 04:12 AM
99.7%
European
93.5%
Ashkenazi
1.1%
Eastern European

Northern European
0.2%
Scandinavian
0.9%
Broadly Northern European

Southern European
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
3.6%
Broadly European
0.1%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.1%
Yakut
< 0.1%
Native American
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
0.1%
North African
0.1%
Unassigned
1.1%
Eastern European

Northwestern European
0.2%
Scandinavian
0.9%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
3.6%
Broadly European
0.1%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.1%
Yakut
< 0.1%
Native American
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
0.1%
North African
0.1%
Unassigned
100%

I have found dna matches in Ireland, Poland, Lithuania, Switzerland, and more. Sorry I don't know this, but what is the source ofyour matches information names you list above? I stumbled onto the site last May, and only now rediscovered it. Is it a genome testing site? I remain very interested in anything about our haplogroup. Since many of my ancestors were Jewish, I was expecting a different Haplogroup, but to my surprise it was T2b on 23andme, and T2b16 on Family Tree DNA.

I do know that before coming to Germany where my father's side lived for hundreds of years, they had lived in France and Italy, -- we think. But on my mother's side, and her mother's mother I thought it was Russia. Maybe that's where the Volga Urals were connected. I looked at pictures of the region and it is beautiful. With cold winters and hot summers. I would love to know how long my ancestors lived there, if they in fact did live there. Given the high percentage of our haplogroup in the region, it's quite likely they did! - Shar in California:)

C J Wyatt III
10-12-2015, 06:39 AM
The only kit for a T2b16 that I can find on projects is 97050. Does that belong to either of you?

Thanks,

Jack Wyatt

Passa
12-29-2015, 12:45 AM
I just found out that I have the sub-clade T2b-T16362C. We need a sub-clade re-naming because the current T2b16 is a sub-clade of T2b-T16362C. Below are all T2b-T16362C(xT2b16) I was able to find. The Baden region of Germany and the Örebro region of Sweden look like they are major hubs for this lineage.
7104

Shar
07-17-2017, 11:42 PM
Passa, I have the same: T2b-T16362C

yisela
05-02-2018, 08:21 PM
I just received my results and I'm T2b-T16362C.
I can trace my maternal line to c. 1830, in Vicenza, Italy (or possibly Trentino, as the surname "Delai" is more widespread there).
Most of my 16 matches from FTDNA are German (3 of them are American).

vettor
05-02-2018, 08:36 PM
I just received my results and I'm T2b-T16362C.k
I can trace my maternal line to c. 1830, in Vicenza, Italy (or possibly Trentino, as the surname "Delai" is more widespread there).
Most of my 16 matches from FTDNA are German (3 of them are American).
There are 101 households in italy with surname Delai....79 lombardy. 8 trentno. 4 veneto. 4 romagna. 3 sardinia....
67 of the 79 come from near Brescia.
Polpenazze del Garda seems the only plce which fits the year mentioned

T2b mtdna in north east italy is 10% more than any other area in italy

yisela
05-03-2018, 09:09 AM
There are 101 households in italy with surname Delai....79 lombardy. 8 trentno. 4 veneto. 4 romagna. 3 sardinia.... 67 of the 79 come from near Brescia. Polpenazze del Garda seems the only plce which fits the year mentioned. T2b mtdna in north east italy is 10% more than any other area in italy

Thank you for the clarification! I know Maria Delai's husband was from Vicenza, and their second and third children were born in Arsiero, but I haven't found any Italian records for them yet (Maria's children migrated to Argentina, and all the records I have are from there). I don't want to hijack the thread, but why do you say Polpenazze del Garda seems the only place which fits the year? I can see quite a few Delai in Trentino in 1840-50 through Family Search. Thanks again!

vettor
05-03-2018, 06:28 PM
Thank you for the clarification! I know Maria Delai's husband was from Vicenza, and their second and third children were born in Arsiero, but I haven't found any Italian records for them yet (Maria's children migrated to Argentina, and all the records I have are from there). I don't want to hijack the thread, but why do you say Polpenazze del Garda seems the only place which fits the year? I can see quite a few Delai in Trentino in 1840-50 through Family Search. Thanks again!

I meant in the Brescia area ............I did not check Trentino, besides trentino is big area..............there are some in Trentino around Pergine Valsugana, like Francesco Delai who married Domenica Magnani and had their first child in 1809 ( duaghter )

Passa
08-14-2019, 12:36 PM
These are all the T2b-T16362C(xT2b16) samples I could locate:
32418

T2b16:
32419

Based on distribution and frequency, the Germanic connection is obvious, more so if one acknowledges that the blue cross in the T2b16 map represents individual PCA0026 (https://amtdb.org/records/1076)from Kowalewko, Poland belonging to the Wielbark culture, which is probably Proto-Gothic.
I'm purchasing FTDNA's mtDNA Full Sequence test to see if I match this individual.

Passa
08-18-2019, 01:08 PM
Roman Iron Age sample Si9 from Simonsborg, Denmark (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912848/) might also belong to T2b-T16362C. He shows the 16362C mutation which might qualify him either as T2b-T16362C or T2b3a1, T2b4, T2b13b, T2b23a, T2b35.

Passa
08-26-2019, 05:38 PM
The Bajuvarian individual BIM_37 had T2b16: source (http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/10045365/8/Veeramah_Population_genomic_analysis_Suppl.pdf).
Arnau de Torroja, a knight of Crown of Aragon and the ninth Grand Master of the Knights Templar from 1181 until his death in 1184, had T2b16: source (https://www.ibe.upf-csic.es/news/-/asset_publisher/PXTgqZXxlocA/content/id/206506799/maximized#.XWQYiuMzbIU).

The modern individual Mg1_A10 from Mongolia has T2b16: source (http://amsdottorato.unibo.it/8011/1/Tesi%20DIBINEM%20Francesco%20Carano.pdf). He is the easternmost T2b16 sample found to date. Its maternal ancestors might have been Polish or German captives (see the battle of Liegnitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liegnitz)).

Passa
01-11-2020, 12:52 PM
The EBA individual hgb002 from Gotland (Sweden) had T2b16: source (http://jakobssonlab.iob.uu.se/pdfs_Jakobssonlab/Fraser_etal_JASR_2018.pdf).
This is the oldest known case of T2b16 so far.