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Christina
05-06-2015, 03:12 AM
In numerous other threads, folks are discussing the theory about widespread dispersal from the east of Europe, or, at least, significant gene through from the east, the bearers of which then outbred their western counterparts. This appears to be becoming the majoritarian view.

I do not want to weigh the pros and cons of this theory again here. (Elsewhere I made the point that the majoritarian thinking seems to change every 5 years or so in this field, and the point of knowing the limitations of what we currently know). But that is not the point today.

I was hoping we could have a discussion about the ramifications of this theory, assuming it is true. The time frame for the out-of-eastern-Europe dispersal is getting mighty close toward historical times. In other words, while it is Ancient DNA, it is not necessarily prehistoric anymore, since there was some written records already in this epoch.

The thought occurred to me thus, that these dispersals, if true, could be the proximate cause for certain historical events, everything from the incastellamento that occurred in Nuragic Sardinia, to Bronze Age Collapse in the Eastern Mediterranean. Both of these events happened close in time to the theorized great eastern dispersal.

As we know from much more well-documented periods in history, a group of marauders need not displace or reach a faraway culture to affect it greatly. For example, during the 4th Century AD, the Huns invaded the lands occupied by the Goths, who then in turn needed someplace to go, and invaded the Roman Empire. The Huns were not at that point directly invading Rome (that came later). Instead, they had simply turned the Goths out of their homeland, who then became a PITA to the Romans.

The thought occurred to me that if there was mass migration stemming from just north of the Black Sea in the period right before Bronze Age collapse, it could have been from cultures affected by such movements of peoples, who then in turn affected others.

tamilgangster
05-06-2015, 07:59 AM
In numerous other threads, folks are discussing the theory about widespread dispersal from the east of Europe, or, at least, significant gene through from the east, the bearers of which then outbred their western counterparts. This appears to be becoming the majoritarian view.

I do not want to weigh the pros and cons of this theory again here. (Elsewhere I made the point that the majoritarian thinking seems to change every 5 years or so in this field, and the point of knowing the limitations of what we currently know). But that is not the point today.

I was hoping we could have a discussion about the ramifications of this theory, assuming it is true. The time frame for the out-of-eastern-Europe dispersal is getting mighty close toward historical times. In other words, while it is Ancient DNA, it is not necessarily prehistoric anymore, since there was some written records already in this epoch.

The thought occurred to me thus, that these dispersals, if true, could be the proximate cause for certain historical events, everything from the incastellamento that occurred in Nuragic Sardinia, to Bronze Age Collapse in the Eastern Mediterranean. Both of these events happened close in time to the theorized great eastern dispersal.

As we know from much more well-documented periods in history, a group of marauders need not displace or reach a faraway culture to affect it greatly. For example, during the 4th Century AD, the Huns invaded the lands occupied by the Goths, who then in turn needed someplace to go, and invaded the Roman Empire. The Huns were not at that point directly invading Rome (that came later). Instead, they had simply turned the Goths out of their homeland, who then became a PITA to the Romans.

The thought occurred to me that if there was mass migration stemming from just north of the Black Sea in the period right before Bronze Age collapse, it could have been from cultures affected by such movements of peoples, who then in turn affected others.

That makes perfect sense, in south asia it is possible that the gedrosian geneflow, was a result of them fleeing the aryan invaders, but this is just speculation