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View Full Version : Interesting FTDNA results of an Adopted person



Hassan
05-18-2015, 02:36 PM
Hi everyone. The following is the FTDNA results of a dear friend of mine who was adopted from a Foster care. Sadly he knows very little about his biological parents and their actual place of origin. His adopted parents have informed him though that they were likely from the Near-East but as you may all be aware that's a fairly large and diverse region. His FTDNA results are interesting and don't properly "best fit" into any modern population using ADMIXTURE via Gedmatch. However he does show up to be fairly Middle-Eastern, consistent with the very little information he has of his biological parents and their origins. Here are his results:

4614

4615


World 9

4612

Eurogenes_ANE K7

4613

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 02:43 PM
He's likley a mixture between a Somali and a Middle Eastern. What's his appearance like?

Hassan
05-18-2015, 02:55 PM
He's likley a mixture between a Somali and a Middle Eastern. What's his appearance like?

He looks fairly Middle Eastern. I myself am Somali (funnily & randomly enough :lol:) and being fairly knowledgeable about my ethnic group I can say his results aren't very consistent with anything even remotely Somali tbh. Apart from the +7% West African his SSA isn't anything out of the norm for Southern Middle Easterners (~8-10%) in my opinion. From my own assessment, its his heightened Asia Minor/Gedrosia that differences him from Southern Middle Easterners.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 02:59 PM
He looks fairly Middle Eastern. I myself am Somali (funnily & randomly enough :lol:) and being fairly knowledgeable about my ethnic group I can say his results aren't very consistent with anything even remotely Somali tbh. Apart from the +7% West African his SSA isn't anything out of the norm for Southern Middle Easterners (~8-10%) in my opinion. From my own assessment, its his heightened Asia Minor/Gedrosia that differences him from Southern Middle Easterners.

Pm me his pic then. I cant tell if I don't know what he looks like. He could be a North african from Egypt.

Ashina
05-18-2015, 03:00 PM
Very interesting. I don't think he is of one MENA ethnicity. He looks clearly mixed.

Arbogan
05-18-2015, 03:02 PM
He looks north-african. What's his gedmatch ID number. I can pattern check him. Egyptian-palestinian whereabouts from first look.

Hassan
05-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Pm me his pic then. I cant tell if I don't know what he looks like. He could be a North african from Egypt.

I'm afraid I currently cannot do that. I will have to ask his permission.





He looks north-african. What's his gedmatch ID number. I can pattern check him. Egyptian-palestinian whereabouts from first look.

Okay, thanks for that bro. I'll PM it to you.

Ashina
05-18-2015, 03:28 PM
Is it normal for Northern Africans to score Central/South Asian?

Arbogan
05-18-2015, 03:36 PM
Is it normal for Northern Africans to score Central/South Asian?

No, but his overall genetic structure looks like someone who'd be from the sinai-arabian-pennisula-southern levant area, with something exotic like SSA and south-asian thrown in.

Edit:

I've looked at the subject now in some admixture runs. I'm thinking of all the possibilities regarding contextual backgrounds. Based on his admixture scores and possible this guy was adopted from basrah or southern Iraq. Basrah and coastal Iraqi areas were very much important hubs for trade during the medieval period. As a result it's an area that has experienced waves of genetically distant groups refliecting its modern diversity. Besides the local arabized indigenous elements, it has also experienced importation of SSA slaves(it's the only city with a significant afro-iraqi population) , south-asian servants, sailors and merchants, aswell as arab immigration from the pennisula, and iranian immigration from khuzestan and adjacent provinces over the border. This would explain the SSA and south-asians/south-central asian admixture found in your friend. Although I have no useful background information (Age, time of adoption, name given by biological parents, etc) that would allow me to make a more useful inference. It's possible your friend was adopted via one human aid organizations operating in the country. Iraq has been in constant turmoil since the 1980s. I'd guess he was adopted during that timeframe and onwards, if i'm not far off.

On admixture runs, he comes out as half-iranian/half-yemeni. MDLP K23b(admixture test with the largest reference samples, and hence most accurate so far) shows him to be closest to the southern iraqi arab sample(predominantly of arab pennisulan heritage).

The other more remote possibilities I can think of is kuwaiti. Kuwaitis are related to basrawahis(kuwait was a part of iraqi ottoman vilayets in one point in time), or a arab pennisula urban population. They like their iraqi neighbours have the the same diversity as a result of their location. The admixture patterns reminds me very much of what they found in admixtured urbanized kuwaitis from a study on recall.


There are even remoter possibilities, anything from arab pennisulan heritage with persian ancestry. Or Multiple ancestries.

The only thing that you can establish with certainity, based on the Y-dna and MTDNA is that parents are broadly of middle-eastern ancestry.

My advice is to get more information from the adoption agency. It would be much easier to piece together, now that your friend has his genetic data. These genetic tests are very much complimentary, and not very discerning towards admixed individuals without proper background contextual information. It's much harder to deduce based simply on admixture scores.


Relevant questions that would give a better answer is:

Age of said individual.
Time of adoption.
Nationality/Origin of adoptive parents.
Which adoption agency was responsible for arranging the adoption and where they operated orphanages.
And of course, things like name given by biological parents and if there is any background information.

Hassan
05-18-2015, 03:38 PM
Is it normal for Northern Africans to score Central/South Asian?

As far as I'm aware, No it isn't normal. North Africans tend to be mostly Ancient Middle Eastern with Mediterranean European and Native African I think.

Kurd
05-18-2015, 04:16 PM
As far as I'm aware, No it isn't normal. North Africans tend to be mostly Ancient Middle Eastern with Mediterranean European and Native African I think.

I can get you his likely recent ancestry, or if he is mixed, his parents' recent ancestry, but I would need the following:

MDLP k23 with his oracles (from gedmatch)
Dodecad k12b with oracles
MDLP k22 with oracles

I will run him through a couple of PCAs which should be helpful if he has mixed ancestry. Give me about 2 days to get back to you.

Hassan
05-18-2015, 04:31 PM
I've looked at the subject now in some admixture runs. I'm thinking of all the possibilities and contextual background. It's possible this guy was adopted from basrah or southern Iraq. Basrah and coastal Iraqi areas were very much important hubs for trade during the medieval period. As a result it's an area that has experienced waves of genetically distant groups refliecting its modern diversity. Besides the local arabized indigenous elements, it has also experienced importation of SSA slaves(it's the only city with a significant afro-iraqi presence, and one that is admixed) , south-asian servants, sailors and merchants, aswell as arab immigration from the pennisula, and iranian immigration from over the border. This would explain the SSA and south-asian admixture found in your friend. Although I have no useful background information (Age, time of adoption, name given by biological parents, etc). It's possible your friend was adopted via one human aid organizations operating there. Iraq has been in constant turmoil since the 1980s. I'd guess he was adopted during that timeframe and onwards, if i'm not far off.

On admixture runs, he comes out as half-iranian/half-yemeni. MDLP K23b(admixture test with the largest reference sample, and hence most accurate so far) shows him closest to the southern iraqi arab sample(predominantly of arab pennisulan heritage).

The other more remote possibilities I can think of is kuwaiti. Kuwaitis are related to basrawahis(kuwait was part of iraqi ottoman vilayets in one point in time), or a arab pennisula urban population. They like their iraqi neighbours have the the same diversity as a result of their location. The admixture patterns reminds me very much of what you found in admixtured urbanized kuwaitis from a study I recall.


There are even remoter possibilities, anything from arab pennisulan with persian ancestry. Or Multiple ancestry.

The only thing that you can establish with certainity, based on the Y-dna and MTDNA is that their parents are broadly of middle-eastern ancestry.

My advice is to get more information from the adoption agency. It would be much eaiser to piece together, now that your friend has an admixture test. These genetic tests are very much complimentary, and not very discerning towards admixed individuals without proper background contextual information. It's much harder to deduce.




Thanks so much for that. Sounds very plausible as he is often mistaken for an Iraqi and Gulf Arabian so that would certainly make sense, much more than anything remotely North African.




Relevant questions that would give a better answer is:
Age of said individual.
Time of adoption.
Nationality/Origin of adoptive parents.
Which adoption agency was responsible for arranging the adoption and where they operated orphanages.
And of course, things like name given by biological parents and if there is any background information.

He is 22 years old, lives in the Greater London area of England with both of his parents being ethnically English. I'll have to ask him about the other details you listed.

Hassan
05-18-2015, 04:33 PM
I can get you his likely recent ancestry, or if he is mixed, his parents' recent ancestry, but I would need the following:

MDLP k23 with his oracles (from gedmatch)
Dodecad k12b with oracles
MDLP k22 with oracles

I will run him through a couple of PCAs which should be helpful if he has mixed ancestry. Give me about 2 days to get back to you.

I'll PM you his ID :)

Arbogan
05-18-2015, 05:36 PM
He is 22 years old, lives in the Greater London area of England with both of his parents being ethnically English. I'll have to ask him about the other details you listed.

So 1993. I'm looking up information about adoption. It looks like the right of adoption wasn't ratified in any of the adoption compilation reports in iraq, and were not recognized in the majoirty arab countries. Is it possible your friend was adopted by a military family or a family who worked with human aid?


http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/adoption2010/child_adoption.pdf

the only countries left are lebanon, syria and palestinian territories. Which is not to say that adoption doesn't happen from those countries, but it gives different and more complex possibilities.

Hassan
05-18-2015, 05:55 PM
So 1993. I'm looking up information about adoption. It looks like adoption wasn't ratified in any of the adoption compilation reports, and were not recognized in arab countries. Is it possible your friend was adopted by a military family or a family who worked with human aid?


I don't know much about his adopted parents other than what he told me tbh. And no he was born in 1992, not 1993. I'm pretty sure they weren't in the Military, The latter sounds more plausible though it could be something entirely different . I did a 23andMe test myself (I'm Somali) a long time ago and I was the one who convinced him to do the test.


He always used to tell me that he speculates his bio family were likely an Iraqi or Iranian family that were affected by the Iraqi-Iran war a few years before that but I don't know how much was pure speculation vs some few facts that make him think so bro. I'm awaiting for his feedback on a couple of things.

Arbogan
05-18-2015, 06:23 PM
I don't know much about his adopted parents other than what he told me tbh. And no he was born in 1992, not 1993. I'm pretty sure they weren't in the Military, The latter sounds more plausible though it could be something entirely different . I did a 23andMe test myself (I'm Somali) a long time ago and I was the one who convinced him to do the test.


He always used to tell me that he speculates his bio family were likely an Iraqi or Iranian family that were affected by the Iraqi-Iran war a few years before that but I don't know how much was pure speculation vs some few facts that make him think so bro. I'm awaiting for his feedback on a couple of things.

I think more than anything the answer lies with the adoptive agency. But atleast i'm glad to have helped your friend narrow down the area of ancestry. Although there are no IBD runs going on. I think an IBD run would give more conclusive results with regardto genetics.

Ignis90
05-18-2015, 07:14 PM
Congrats to him! :D It must be a such a relief to finally know his ancestry.


The most likely is Gulf Arab (from Iraq to Oman, although his Asia Minor may be a sign of a more northernly Near Eastern origin). Some modern Gulf Arabs are mixed and have diverse ancestry from Sub Saharan Africa (mostly Bantu) and from Central-South Asia. Sot not really native MENA but mixed MENA.


I'm curious to see what he looks like, if the recent West African is counter-balanced by the Central Asian.

Dr_McNinja
05-18-2015, 07:41 PM
I would guess fertile crescent/levant region based purely on the admixture reseults. Some bit of African is common in Arabs. The lack of enough Mediterranean doesn't fit with North Africans. The slightly higher than expected African makes me think Yemen. The Central/South Asian could indicate north of Arabia proper (Jordan/Syria/Iraq). So I'd go with the north, perhaps mixed with Arabs from Yemen.

The Barnacle
05-18-2015, 07:43 PM
I would guess fertile crescent/levant region based purely on the admixture reseults. Some bit of African is common in Arabs. The lack of enough Mediterranean doesn't fit with North Africans. The slightly higher than expected African makes me think Yemen. The Central/South Asian could indicate north of Arabia proper (Jordan/Syria/Iraq). So I'd go with the north, perhaps mixed with Arabs from Yemen.

Levantines like Syrians and Lebanese don't score that much African, it's impossible. They also score higher Central Asian. He's a gulf most likely.

Dr_McNinja
05-18-2015, 07:47 PM
Thanks so much for that. Sounds very plausible as he is often mistaken for an Iraqi and Gulf Arabian so that would certainly make sense, much more than anything remotely North African.





He is 22 years old, lives in the Greater London area of England with both of his parents being ethnically English. I'll have to ask him about the other details you listed.A Y-DNA test like Big Y from FTDNA or FGC would be worth it, there are a lot of Arabs in the FTDNA projects getting these tests. It's a pretty good shot he could actually find matches for his paternal line.

Dr_McNinja
05-18-2015, 08:05 PM
Levantines like Syrians and Lebanese don't score that much African, it's impossible. They also score higher Central Asian. He's a gulf most likely.
The closest to this mix of ANE/East African is Palestinian/Bedouin, but they don't come close since their ANE is too low (going by the K7 spreadsheet). While his admixture may average out to something like Gulf, it doesn't look to resemble any particular population so my guess is a mix of disparate Arab groups, one more ANE heavy and one more African heavy.