PDA

View Full Version : Yseq now offers R1a-Z93 SNP panel for $88



lgmayka
06-08-2015, 08:39 PM
Yseq now offers an R1a-Z93 SNP panel for $88 (http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=11867). It tests all the levels on YFull's current haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/) that have customer examples (YF0nnnn) except:
Y1 < Y928 < Y920 < Y5 (< Y6)
Y2392 < Y2353 < Y2351 (< Y9)
Y879 < Y945 (< Y7)
Y25 (< Y7)
YP1269 (< Y52)
V164 (< YP639)
FGC18215 < FGC18218 (< FGC18226)
YP1366 (< Y2630)
YP268 (< YP265)
M12280 (< YP413)
YP1541 (< YP1457)
YP1360 (< YP1347)
YP1352 (< YP1347)
Y15121 (< Y934)
Y5977 (< Y5992)
YP451 (< Y934)
YP449 < YP451 (< Y934)
YP450 < YP449 < YP451 (< Y934)

Coldmountains
08-04-2015, 07:59 PM
Yseq now offers an R1a-Z93 SNP panel for $88 (http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=11867). It tests all the levels on YFull's current haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/) that have customer examples (YF0nnnn) except:
Y1 < Y928 < Y920 < Y5 (< Y6)
Y2392 < Y2353 < Y2351 (< Y9)
Y879 < Y945 (< Y7)
Y25 (< Y7)
YP1269 (< Y52)
V164 (< YP639)
FGC18215 < FGC18218 (< FGC18226)
YP1366 (< Y2630)
YP268 (< YP265)
M12280 (< YP413)
YP1541 (< YP1457)
YP1360 (< YP1347)
YP1352 (< YP1347)
Y15121 (< Y934)
Y5977 (< Y5992)
YP451 (< Y934)
YP449 < YP451 (< Y934)
YP450 < YP449 < YP451 (< Y934)

My paternal line is Afghan and i have R1a. But i have not tested myself for Z93 yet but it is almost certain that i have it. Can i order it or should i at first make another test for Z93 or Z2124?

lgmayka
08-04-2015, 11:06 PM
My paternal line is Afghan and i have R1a. But i have not tested myself for Z93 yet but it is almost certain that i have it. Can i order it or should i at first make another test for Z93 or Z2124?
If you know you are R1a1a1, I would say that your probability of Z93+ is so high that you may as well immediately order the Z93 SNP panel.

Coldmountains
08-04-2015, 11:31 PM
If you know you are R1a1a1, I would say that your probability of Z93+ is so high that you may as well immediately order the Z93 SNP panel.

I already ordered it :) Everything is possible i guess but the probability for R1a-Z93- is close to zero in this case. I am certainly R1a1a1 after I looked on my SNPs. Hope the results arrive soon.

parasar
08-05-2015, 05:35 PM
I already ordered it :) Everything is possible i guess but the probability for R1a-Z93- is close to zero in this case. I am certainly R1a1a1 after I looked on my SNPs. Hope the results arrive soon.

You could be on this line:
R-M459-M198-M417-Z645-Z93-Z94-Z2124-Z2125-YP413-M12280

Seen in sample: N49878, YF03623

Please also see: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2551-Experimentation-with-TreeMix-Software&p=43330&viewfull=1#post43330

Coldmountains
08-05-2015, 06:08 PM
You could be on this line:
R-M459-M198-M417-Z645-Z93-Z94-Z2124-Z2125-YP413-M12280

Seen in sample: N49878, YF03623

Please also see: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2551-Experimentation-with-TreeMix-Software&p=43330&viewfull=1#post43330

Maybe I am L657. It is not rare among Pashtuns but I guess that I am most likely Z2124 and maybe the line of this samples is also my line :) . But I got the impression that L657 is rarer among Ghilzai Pashtuns than among other Pashtuns. Quite interesting if it is true that L657 is the Indo-Aryan line and Z2124 the Iranian line than doing this test will tell me if I am a descendant of East Iranian or Indo-Aryan/Dardic tribesmen on my paternal side. But I guess it is much more complicated in the end.

parasar
08-07-2015, 07:49 PM
Maybe I am L657. It is not rare among Pashtuns but I guess that I am most likely Z2124 and maybe the line of this samples is also my line :) . But I got the impression that L657 is rarer among Ghilzai Pashtuns than among other Pashtuns. Quite interesting if it is true that L657 is the Indo-Aryan line and Z2124 the Iranian line than doing this test will tell me if I am a descendant of East Iranian or Indo-Aryan/Dardic tribesmen on my paternal side. But I guess it is much more complicated in the end.

Sure L657 is possible. Also Y40 is possible too, we just had a confirmed Y40 case from eastern UP.

All three lines have pan-subcontinental distributions, with varying proportions. Plus we also know that all three lines originated at approximately the same time (and place).

Therefore I do not think that Z2124 or Y40 are Iranian or Turkic, or that L657 is not Iranian. After all, Z93 from NE Iran is L657 and Z2124 was found to be absent there, while in N. and S. Iran both are present, though in low proportions. Among Afghan Tajiks and Afghan Uzbeks, Z2124 and L657 are present in about equal proportions. The Pakhtoon and the Kirgiz, especially the latter, are predominantly Z2124.

Interestingly, while Z93 Ashkenazi Jews are Z2124 (Z2122, M582), Underhill found four non-Indian, non-Ashkenazi Jewish samples (Behar and Rootsi) to be L657.

Coldmountains
08-07-2015, 08:05 PM
Sure L657 is possible. Also Y40 is possible too, we just had a confirmed Y40 case from eastern UP.

All three lines have pan-subcontinental distributions, with varying proportions. Plus we also know that all three lines originated at approximately the same time (and place).

Therefore I do not think that Z2124 or Y40 are Iranian or Turkic, or that L657 is not Iranian. After all, Z93 from NE Iran is L657 and Z2124 was found to be absent there, while in N. and S. Iran both are present, though in low proportions. Among Afghan Tajiks and Afghan Uzbeks, Z2124 and L657 are present in about equal proportions. The Pakhtoon and the Kirgiz, especially the latter, are predominantly Z2124.

Interestingly, while Z93 Ashkenazi Jews are Z2124 (Z2122, M582), Underhill found four non-Indian, non-Ashkenazi Jewish samples (Behar and Rootsi) to be L657.

I looked at the ftdna R1a project tables and it is quite interesting that L657 is present among the Babasan tribe from Northern Kazakhstan in quite large numbers . So I guess it is much more complicated and historic Iranian and Indo-Aryan tribes had people belonging to all of this lines. I know not much about Y40 and there is hardly much information about it. Where it is most frequent today?

I got the kit yesterday and sent it back today. It should arrive in the lab in Berlin in just few days (I live in Germany) and in some weeks I should get my results :)

parasar
08-07-2015, 08:25 PM
I looked at the ftdna R1a project tables and it is quite interesting that L657 is present among the Babasan tribe from Northern Kazakhstan in quite large numbers . So I guess it is much more complicated and historic Iranian and Indo-Aryan tribes had people belonging to all of this lines. I know not much about Y40 and there is hardly much information about it. Where it is most frequent today?

I got the kit yesterday and sent it back today. It should arrive in the lab in Berlin in just few days (I live in Germany) and in some weeks I should get my results :)

Those Babasan L657 are all closely related, with essentially identical STRs. My feeling was they are descended of an Arab missionary since a Babasan Morza is mentioned in about the time-frame when Islamic missionaries visited that region. https://books.google.com/books?id=n5kUAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA989

A researcher from that family posits a Bokharan origin, which is too is possible.
http://atababa.kz/en/history/read/proiskhozhdenie_roda_babasan/

parasar
09-02-2015, 05:04 PM
I looked at the ftdna R1a project tables and it is quite interesting that L657 is present among the Babasan tribe from Northern Kazakhstan in quite large numbers . So I guess it is much more complicated and historic Iranian and Indo-Aryan tribes had people belonging to all of this lines. I know not much about Y40 and there is hardly much information about it. Where it is most frequent today?

I got the kit yesterday and sent it back today. It should arrive in the lab in Berlin in just few days (I live in Germany) and in some weeks I should get my results :)

Did you get your results? I see you are now listed as Z93+

Coldmountains
09-02-2015, 05:21 PM
Did you get your results? I see you are now listed as Z93+

Not the final results yet :( But they posted some allele results. I am Z93+ Z94+ Z2124- So I should be L657 or Y40 in the end but they are still testing. I looked at FTDNA and interestingly there is also an Afghan (I assume he his pashtun) L657+ from Kabul but let see which results i get in the end

Coldmountains
09-08-2015, 05:16 PM
Not the final results yet :( But they posted some allele results. I am Z93+ Z94+ Z2124- So I should be L657 or Y40 in the end but they are still testing. I looked at FTDNA and interestingly there is also an Afghan (I assume he his pashtun) L657+ from Kabul but let see which results i get in the end

They posted new results. I am L657+

Coldmountains
09-10-2015, 06:12 PM
My final branch is Y6+ .Interestingly the Afghan L657 in the R1a FTDNA project is also Y6+

BMG
09-12-2015, 04:23 PM
There are few Iranian L657 from Khorasan . Also there was a member here who was Y7 and his paternal grandfather was a pashtun

Coldmountains
09-15-2015, 12:48 AM
There are few Iranian L657 from Khorasan . Also there was a member here who was Y7 and his paternal grandfather was a pashtun

There is one Iranian on FTDNA from Gonabad having also L657/Y6 like me. Y6 is less numerous than Y9 but almost everywhere found where Y9 is also found but it seems that it is quite high among Baluch and Brahui people and their R1a seems to be mostly Y6 especially among Brahui. So I think it will be relatively frequent among southern Pashtuns also.


Outside of the Indian subcontinent L657 was so far found among Pashtuns, Brahui, Baluch, Iranians, Azeri, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazara, Turkmen, Uyghurs and Arabs. But it was not found more in the north yet unlike Z2124. More ancient DNA samples will likely answer the question where exactly L657 originated and when it entered India, Central and West Asia.

parasar
09-15-2015, 01:55 AM
There is one Iranian on FTDNA from Gonabad having also L657/Y6 like me. Y6 is less numerous than Y9 but almost everywhere found where Y9 is also found but it seems that it is quite high among Baluch and Brahui people and their R1a seems to be mostly Y6 especially among Brahui. So I think it will be relatively frequent among southern Pashtuns also.


Outside of the Indian subcontinent L657 was so far found among Pashtuns, Brahui, Baluch, Iranians, Azeri, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazara, Turkmen, Uyghurs and Arabs. But it was not found more in the north yet unlike Z2124. More ancient DNA samples will likely answer the question where exactly L657 originated and when it entered India, Central and West Asia.

What is your L342 status?

Re L657 - Mongolia. In the west there is an Algerian L657, likely of Arabian origin. It is also present in Jews.

For publicly available full samples:
Bengal has two Y4 lines one of which is Y6. Y6 has two lines one present in a Lankan. In the other Y6 line, Y920 is the most spread out (all over the subcontinent), while Y907 is present in Lanka and Andhra.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-b3KeGG3Un1VUJTSU12UUVkXzQ/edit
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/t8hayoZIVTYuGSRPlayGTjfJMZi8H6BioYyG1LpziOkvdC-15WvkNA=w1200-h630-p

Coldmountains
09-17-2015, 06:55 PM
What is your L342 status?

Re L657 - Mongolia. In the west there is an Algerian L657, likely of Arabian origin. It is also present in Jews.

For publicly available full samples:
Bengal has two Y4 lines one of which is Y6. Y6 has two lines one present in a Lankan. In the other Y6 line, Y920 is the most spread out (all over the subcontinent), while Y907 is present in Lanka and Andhra.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-b3KeGG3Un1VUJTSU12UUVkXzQ/edit
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/t8hayoZIVTYuGSRPlayGTjfJMZi8H6BioYyG1LpziOkvdC-15WvkNA=w1200-h630-p

They didn't tested for L342 just for Z93<Z94<L657<Y6. But should I not be automatically positive for it if I am confirmed Z94/L657?.

It is interesting that Y6 and Y9 have basically the same kind of geographic distribution so I wonder if there are some differences in the distribution of this clades among various castes in India or has Y6 among castes in India the same kind of distribution like Y9?

Coldmountains
09-17-2015, 07:01 PM
Bump.

parasar
09-17-2015, 09:59 PM
They didn't tested for L342 just for Z93<Z94<L657<Y6. But should I not be automatically positive for it if I am confirmed Z94/L657?.

It is interesting that Y6 and Y9 have basically the same kind of geographic distribution so I wonder if there are some differences in the distribution of this clades among various castes in India or has Y6 among castes in India the same kind of distribution like Y9?

Normally yes.
That Iranian from Gonabad happens to be L657+ and L342-.

I suspect both Y9 and Y6 are equally old in South Asia - therefore we will see them in all castes (but not in isolated tribes), with a skew towards higher castes.

Coldmountains
09-18-2015, 12:12 AM
Normally yes.
That Iranian from Gonabad happens to be L657+ and L342-.

I suspect both Y9 and Y6 are equally old in South Asia - therefore we will see them in all castes (but not in isolated tribes), with a skew towards higher castes.

Interesting that such kind of back mutations happen occasionally. If I am not wrong Y9 and Y4 branched off 3800 years ago, what is close to the time period when the first Indo-Aryan tribes moved into South Asia but as far as I understood it there were several waves of immigrating Indo-Aryan tribes,which were pushed back by their Iranian cousins from Central Asia. I guess Y4 and Y9 were carried by the same population. But it is probably too early to associate them just with Proto-Indo-Aryan tribes.

Do ancient Indian texts mention "Indian"/Indo-Aryan-speaking tribes outside of the Indian subcontinent in Central Asia? I wonder what happened with the rest of L657 carriers north of South Central Asia and with Archaic Indo-Aryan speaking people there because I think that Iranian and Indo-Aryan languages branched off before they moved south or do you think that it were Proto-Indo-Iranians which entered BMAC and that Iranians and Indo-Aryans branched off in South Central Asia after extensive contacts with BMAC?

lgmayka
09-18-2015, 01:58 AM
Interesting that such kind of back mutations happen occasionally.
L342 was never claimed to be a reliable SNP all by itself. At one time, we thought that a quadruple of 4 locations, including L342, was reliable enough; but we then found a major counterexample in which the whole region had recombined. Luckily, we now have more reliable SNPs like Z2123 and L657.

parasar
09-18-2015, 02:01 AM
Interesting that such kind of back mutations happen occasionally. If I am not wrong Y9 and Y4 branched off 3800 years ago, what is close to the time period when the first Indo-Aryan tribes moved into South Asia but as far as I understood it there were several waves of immigrating Indo-Aryan tribes,which were pushed back by their Iranian cousins from Central Asia. I guess Y4 and Y9 were carried by the same population. Do Indian texts mention "Indian" tribes outside of the Indian subcontinent in Central Asia? I wonder what happened with the rest of L657 carriers north of South Central Asia and with Archaic Indo-Aryan speaking people there because I think that Iranian and Indo-Aryan languages branched off before they moved south or do you think that it were Proto-Indo-Iranians which entered BMAC and that Iranians and Indo-Aryans branched off in South Central Asia after extensive contact with BMAC?

In N. Indic texts Central Asia is truly central. The center of Jambudvipa lies there. The main rivers include Sheet (now Tarim), Vakshu (now Amu), Sindhu and Ganga.

"the Ganges, the Indus, the Oxos, and the Sita, all of which they derived from a great central lake in the plateau of Pamir" https://books.google.com/books?id=A3UIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA279

Xuanzhang: https://books.google.com/books?id=JUcOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA297 "In the middle of the Pamir valley is a great dragon lake (Nagahrada); from east to west it is 300 li or so, from north to south 50 li. It is situated in the midst of the great T'sung ling mountains, and is the central point of Jambudvipa ... To the west of the lake there is a large stream, which, going west, reaches so far as the eastern borders of the kingdom of Ta-mo-si-tie-ti (? Tamasthiti), and there joins the river Oxus (Fo-t'su) and flows still to the west. So on this side of the lake all the streams flow westward.
On the east of the lake is a great stream,43 which, flowing north-east, reaches to the western frontiers of the country of Kie-sha(?Kashgar), and there joins the Si-to (Sita) river44 and flows eastward, and so all streams on the left side of the lake flow eastward ... The members of the royal family in appearance resemble the people of the Middle Country (China). They wear on their heads a square cap, and their clothes are like those of the Hu people (Uighurs). In after-ages these people fell under the power of the barbarians, who kept their country in their power.
When Asoka-raja was in the world he built in this palace a stupa. Afterwards, when the king changed his residence to the north-east angle of the royal precinct, he built in this old palace a sanghdrdma for the sake of Kumaralabdha (T'ong-shiu). The towers of this building are high (and its halls) wide. There is in it a figure of Buddha of majestic appearance. The venerable Kumaralabdha was a native of Takshas"ila."



The problem is that both the Gathas and the Rg. Veda betray no knowledge of Central Asia.

How do we resolve this?

There are two theories:

1. The Rg Vedic/Gathic folk forgot about their descent into South Asia, and then later when their horizons expanded into Central Asia, they incorporated Central Asian regions into their scheme.

2. The Rg Vedic/Gathic folk are different from the Central Asian folk (the Ailas) who descended into South Asia.

Coldmountains
09-19-2015, 11:41 AM
In N. Indic texts Central Asia is truly central. The center of Jambudvipa lies there. The main rivers include Sheet (now Tarim), Vakshu (now Amu), Sindhu and Ganga.

"the Ganges, the Indus, the Oxos, and the Sita, all of which they derived from a great central lake in the plateau of Pamir" https://books.google.com/books?id=A3UIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA279

Xuanzhang: https://books.google.com/books?id=JUcOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA297 "In the middle of the Pamir valley is a great dragon lake (Nagahrada); from east to west it is 300 li or so, from north to south 50 li. It is situated in the midst of the great T'sung ling mountains, and is the central point of Jambudvipa ... To the west of the lake there is a large stream, which, going west, reaches so far as the eastern borders of the kingdom of Ta-mo-si-tie-ti (? Tamasthiti), and there joins the river Oxus (Fo-t'su) and flows still to the west. So on this side of the lake all the streams flow westward.
On the east of the lake is a great stream,43 which, flowing north-east, reaches to the western frontiers of the country of Kie-sha(?Kashgar), and there joins the Si-to (Sita) river44 and flows eastward, and so all streams on the left side of the lake flow eastward ... The members of the royal family in appearance resemble the people of the Middle Country (China). They wear on their heads a square cap, and their clothes are like those of the Hu people (Uighurs). In after-ages these people fell under the power of the barbarians, who kept their country in their power.
When Asoka-raja was in the world he built in this palace a stupa. Afterwards, when the king changed his residence to the north-east angle of the royal precinct, he built in this old palace a sanghdrdma for the sake of Kumaralabdha (T'ong-shiu). The towers of this building are high (and its halls) wide. There is in it a figure of Buddha of majestic appearance. The venerable Kumaralabdha was a native of Takshas"ila."



The problem is that both the Gathas and the Rg. Veda betray no knowledge of Central Asia.

How do we resolve this?

There are two theories:

1. The Rg Vedic/Gathic folk forgot about their descent into South Asia, and then later when their horizons expanded into Central Asia, they incorporated Central Asian regions into their scheme.

2. The Rg Vedic/Gathic folk are different from the Central Asian folk (the Ailas) who descended into South Asia.

It is most likely that they simply forgot about that. Basically all Indo-Europeans thought that they were since the beginning of time living in their current dwelling places. And let not forget that both the Gathas and Vedas are primarily religious texts. But at least in Avesta there are some indirect evidences for a more northern origin (long winters, beavers,..). The archaic Indo-Aryan loanwords in Uralic loanwords preceding the Iranian ones seem to indicate for me that Iranians and Indo-Aryans branched already off in the north and that L657 was the first which moved east.

I think the absence of it north of south central asia is rather the result of population replacements and the first L657 groups were probably just small clans/tribes which grew radically in numbers in the Indian subcontinent because of rich local resources and big farmer populations which made such kind of growth possible, because they "feeded" L657 carriers. In other areas the relatively few number of L657 carriers which were predominantly pastoralists having also less resources could easily be replaced by other incoming pastoralist groups like Yamnaya R1b in the Pontic Caspian-steppe got almost entirely replaced by R1a tribes. So ancient L657 will be maybe found in an unexpected place and many locations are possible.

Guachelin
10-18-2015, 11:28 PM
I just joined. I'm a member of both R1a projects at FTDNA, also the administrator of the Farrar Farrow project.
There are over 40 members in the project who are R-Z93, of those 40 share a common ancestry (documented) to West Riding Yorkshire in the 16th Century, and possibly 1379, the now Farrars are close genetic cousins, + or - 675 years, also of northern England, some are known Non Paternal Events that happened in north America, others are assumed to date from the poll tax of 1377 at which time surnames became hereditary.

This haplogroup (R1a1a1b2) is unknown in Britain or western Europe outside of the Farrar DNA project.

I just ordered the Z93 test for $88 from Yseq.net. I tested one subclade (YP1461)and came up negative, but decided to take advantage of the offer.

How this haplogroup R1a1a1b2, wound up in northern England and apparently southern Scotland, is not known. It was theorized that it came in with the Iazyge auxillary of the Romans, or an Alani in the company of William in 1066, or a Hungarian in the retinue of Edgar (the Aetheling or prince) son of Edward the Exile, when William harried the north in 1070. Edgar and his followers fled to Scotland. The hypothesis that it came in with Hungarian Roma was discounted as Roma are Z94-Z2123. And we are Z94 negative. Ashkenazi Levite was also discarded for the same reason.

There is no indication that this haplogroup landed in southern England, it appears to have "arrived" in the northern counties circa the 12th Century, all the way from the steppes? Unlikely.

Edward the Exile was sent to Hungary after Wessex was conquered by Cnute, he came to maturity, married and had children in Hungary, and returned to Wessex in 1056 on invitation of his uncle Edward the Confessor. He died, probably assassinated, on the road from Dover to London. His children were raised in the court of Edward, until his death and were sent north, to Eoferwic (York), under the protection of Tostig Godwinson, but when the Saxon Earls Morcar and Aedwin reneged on their pledge of fealty to William, he set his lieutenants to Harry the North, over 100,000 died of sword and starvation and the court, of Edgar Edwardson fled to Scotland

The time period is correct for the appearance of the surname/DNA. However it seems that Hungary DNA, where it is R1a1a is Z94, and Farrar DNA is Z93 terminal (at this time), and Z94 negative.

lgmayka
10-19-2015, 08:28 AM
This haplogroup (R1a1a1b2) is unknown in Britain or western Europe outside of the Farrar DNA project.
R-Z93 appears sparingly in western and northwestern Europe. Your R-Z93(xZ94) is indeed much rarer. According to R1a Project results (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1a?iframe=yresults), R-Z93(xZ94) has been found in Poland, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, Kazakhstan, and even Italy; but in northwestern Europe, only the YP1451 clade and your own cluster, which is labeled

9. M420>M459>M198>M417>Z645>Z93-A British cluster (another Big Y needed)

Because YFull would need a second BAM file in order to define your cluster as a clade.

khanabadoshi
10-19-2015, 01:07 PM
Igmayka: I tested my Father's brother and he got R1a1a (and thus lumped with different users than my sister and I!) on 23andme, while I am R1a1a* -- any reason for this? I am slightly confused! Also do you have any information regarding mtDNA U7 or U7a3 -- this would be my Father's mtDNA lineage.

parasar
10-19-2015, 07:55 PM
Igmayka: I tested my Father's brother and he got R1a1a (and thus lumped with different users than my sister and I!) on 23andme, while I am R1a1a* -- any reason for this? I am slightly confused! Also do you have any information regarding mtDNA U7 or U7a3 -- this would be my Father's mtDNA lineage.

Your father's brother will be the same exact type of R1a1 as you - it is just a classification issue.

parasar
10-19-2015, 08:03 PM
I just joined. I'm a member of both R1a projects at FTDNA, also the administrator of the Farrar Farrow project.
There are over 40 members in the project who are R-Z93, of those 40 share a common ancestry (documented) to West Riding Yorkshire in the 16th Century, and possibly 1379, the now Farrars are close genetic cousins, + or - 675 years, also of northern England, some are known Non Paternal Events that happened in north America, others are assumed to date from the poll tax of 1377 at which time surnames became hereditary.

This haplogroup (R1a1a1b2) is unknown in Britain or western Europe outside of the Farrar DNA project.

I just ordered the Z93 test for $88 from Yseq.net. I tested one subclade (YP1461)and came up negative, but decided to take advantage of the offer.

How this haplogroup R1a1a1b2, wound up in northern England and apparently southern Scotland, is not known. It was theorized that it came in with the Iazyge auxillary of the Romans, or an Alani in the company of William in 1066, or a Hungarian in the retinue of Edgar (the Aetheling or prince) son of Edward the Exile, when William harried the north in 1070. Edgar and his followers fled to Scotland. The hypothesis that it came in with Hungarian Roma was discounted as Roma are Z94-Z2123. And we are Z94 negative. Ashkenazi Levite was also discarded for the same reason.

There is no indication that this haplogroup landed in southern England, it appears to have "arrived" in the northern counties circa the 12th Century, all the way from the steppes? Unlikely.

Edward the Exile was sent to Hungary after Wessex was conquered by Cnute, he came to maturity, married and had children in Hungary, and returned to Wessex in 1056 on invitation of his uncle Edward the Confessor. He died, probably assassinated, on the road from Dover to London. His children were raised in the court of Edward, until his death and were sent north, to Eoferwic (York), under the protection of Tostig Godwinson, but when the Saxon Earls Morcar and Aedwin reneged on their pledge of fealty to William, he set his lieutenants to Harry the North, over 100,000 died of sword and starvation and the court, of Edgar Edwardson fled to Scotland

The time period is correct for the appearance of the surname/DNA. However it seems that Hungary DNA, where it is R1a1a is Z94, and Farrar DNA is Z93 terminal (at this time), and Z94 negative.

If not of ancient British Isles origin, I believe your line could be Norman, and ultimately may be derived from Faris, Farrier - related to horse/knight or to horse-caretakers/shoesmiths.

parasar
04-11-2016, 07:10 PM
Sure L657 is possible. Also Y40 is possible too, we just had a confirmed Y40 case from eastern UP.

All three lines have pan-subcontinental distributions, with varying proportions. Plus we also know that all three lines originated at approximately the same time (and place).

Therefore I do not think that Z2124 or Y40 are Iranian or Turkic, or that L657 is not Iranian. After all, Z93 from NE Iran is L657 and Z2124 was found to be absent there, while in N. and S. Iran both are present, though in low proportions. Among Afghan Tajiks and Afghan Uzbeks, Z2124 and L657 are present in about equal proportions. The Pakhtoon and the Kirgiz, especially the latter, are predominantly Z2124.

Interestingly, while Z93 Ashkenazi Jews are Z2124 (Z2122, M582), Underhill found four non-Indian, non-Ashkenazi Jewish samples (Behar and Rootsi) to be L657.

Another one: L657+ from Turkey
74750 Hanan
Potentially 74898 is also L657+
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mayofamiliesofsephardicorigin/default.aspx?section=yresults
http://jewishdna.net/R1a-74750.html