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Arbogan
06-09-2015, 08:32 PM
I just want to throw something out there--something that might sound preposterous to some...

What if it's the other way around? What if the Yemeni and Mizrahi Jews are the "purest" (because of endogamy, not conversion) native Jewish people in the Middle East, and all the Sephardim and Ashkenazim autosomal results are because of European converts?

So autosomal DNA which is (incorrectly) classified as "MENA" because of centuries of endogamy in Ashkenazim is not actually MENA, but rather central/eastern European and/or central Asian.

Just a thought.

Well in a way, iraqi and iranian jews are closer to the hebrews of antiquity. Their similarity to samaritans is striking. Samaritans seem to be closest to the hebrews( highly isolated and inbred population that did not partake in the jewish exodus).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu6qhJ2HvyY

Humanist
06-09-2015, 08:36 PM
Well in a way, iraqi and iranian jews are closer to the hebrews of antiquity. Their similarity to samaritans is striking. Samaritans seem to be closest to the hebrews( highly isolated and inbred population that did not partake in the jewish exodus).

Iraqi Jews, as Agamemnon correctly pointed out previously shift slightly towards the Levant, but they, and the other Eastern Mizrahim Jewish groups are not very similar to Samaritans.

Humanist
06-09-2015, 09:22 PM
Link to what you think supports this?

I have made literally hundreds of posts on this topic over the last 5-6 years. Several dozen PCAs/SPAs, dendrograms, etc. have been posted on this forum, the old DNA Forums, ABF, and so on.

Here are a few:

Eurogenes SPA map:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/spa_eurogenes_semitic_speaking-2.jpg


A separate Eurogenes run:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/eurogenes_behar.jpg


Eurogenes PCA:

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507417511/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg


https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1508193598/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg


Based on Eurogenes Admix run:

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507635060/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507634860/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507417548/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg



Creating a thread to discuss Zack Ajmal's Harappa Ancestry Project (http://www.harappadna.org/).

Created a few basic analyses based on the most recent Harappa admix run (http://www.harappadna.org/2013/07/harappaworld-hrp0312-hrp0327/), for some Near Eastern populations.

Indo-Iranian Speaking Populations
Iranian_Harappa IRN_IR
Kurd_Harappa KRD_IR

Jewish Populations
Ashkenazi Jews ASHJ
Iranian Jews IRNJ
Iraqi Jews IRQJ
Sephardic Jews SEPJ
Yemen Jews YEMJ

Arab Populations
Bedouin BEDA
Iraqi IRQA
Jordanian JORA
Palestinian PALA1
Qatari QATA
Saudi SAUA
Syrian SYRA
Yemeni YEMA

Lebanese Populations
Lebanese Christian LEBC
Lebanese Druze LEBD
Lebanese Muslim LEBM

Other Populations
Assyrian_Harappa ASY
Iraqi Mandaean_Harappa MAN
Samaritan SAM


Cluster, Neighbor-joining, and MDS analyses respectively:


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/cluster_analysis_harappa_aug_2013.jpg


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/neighbor_joining_tree_harappa_august_2013.jpg


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/mds_harappa_mds_1.jpg


Eurogenes PCA:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/dok101023/Eurogenes_v2_MDS_ME__.jpg

Arbogan
06-09-2015, 09:37 PM
I have made literally hundreds of posts on this topic over the last 5-6 years. Several dozen PCAs/SPAs, dendrograms, etc. have been posted on this forum, the old DNA Forums, ABF, and so on.

Here are a few:

Eurogenes SPA map:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/paulgiva78/passover/spa_eurogenes_semitic_speaking-2.jpg


A separate Eurogenes run:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/Faces/eurogenes_behar.jpg


Eurogenes PCA:

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507417511/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg


https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1508193598/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg


Based on Eurogenes Admix run:

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507635060/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507634860/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg

https://app.box.com/representation/file_version_1507417548/image_2048_jpg/1.jpg





Eurogenes PCA:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/dok101023/Eurogenes_v2_MDS_ME__.jpg

The argument that you could make based off these is that the south-central-asian/gedrosia affinities in those two jewish populations is what makes them mesompotamian(because ANE/south-central admixture). But who said they had this because of their supposed mesopotamian heritage?

Humanist
06-09-2015, 09:39 PM
Link to what you think supports this?

Can you now link to what supports your position regarding the purported striking similarity between Iraqi/Iranian Jews and Samaritans.

Arbogan
06-10-2015, 05:12 PM
Can you now link to what supports your position regarding the purported striking similarity between Iraqi/Iranian Jews and Samaritans.

My sources won't differ from those you cited, as most of the work on genetic population works used here is from two blogs and local contributors whose work with the admixture/IBD/F-statistics/tree-mix is the underlying constituent to these discussions. But yes, my statement is based on the inference, that the assumed origin of those two Jewish populations are same as other Hebrews, of who the Samaritans are a clear derivative. If you look at the k12b and MDLP and other admixture runs. You'll see that they're similar to Samaritans, expect that instead of sharing similar levels of affinity to south-west-Asians, they seem to be shifted towards the Iranian-plateau, because of their ANE/south-west central Asian affinities. Which incidentally puts them close to Assyrians and other Mesopotamian populations(This is also what draws assyrians away from Levantine populations like Lebanese Christians and druze). They could just as likely be Mesopotamian converts. But who knows. It would take more significant studies to ascertain what meta-group they belong too. And frankly i'm not very invested in this issue. I made the inference based on their assumed Hebrew heritage. Maybe if you could make a comparative haplogroup analysis.