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View Full Version : Missing link to I-M223 ?



lgmayka
06-09-2015, 10:51 PM
Kit 386493 of Poland has the following 12+2 markers. (The two extra markers are DYS437 and DYS438.)

15 24 16 10 14 15 11 13 13 13 12 30 - 15 - 10

FTDNA predicted him merely to be I-M170. I myself pre-classified him as I-M223.

But he has now tested negative for M223. Ken Nordtvedt, like me, is at a loss at this point. I am ready to suggest that this project member simply order a Big Y the next time it goes on sale (with a contribution from me). I wonder whether he is pre-M223 (i.e., negative for M223 but positive for most of the other SNPs currently presumed to be tree-equivalent to M223).

Anyone have a better idea? He could upgrade to more markers, but I suspect he will still eventually want/need a Big Y and YFull analysis, so why spend extra money on the intermediate step?

In Ysearch, his nearest neighbors (on 14 markers) are at a genetic distance of 3. They include members of I2a, I2b, and even one G. I now wonder whether he is loosely related to TXPGU of Croatia (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=txpgu&viewuid=TXPGU&p=1) or 7VBSK (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=7vbsk&viewuid=7VBSK&p=1), both of whom are clearly I2a-Dinaric (I-CTS10228).

Huntergatherer1066
06-09-2015, 11:10 PM
I think BigY would probably be the best route in terms of having a thorough resolution, with the turnaround times for Y-STRs the way they are right now I don't think they would necessarily be worth the wait in terms of the potential payoff. Has he only tested M223 so far? The only other thing I can think of is just testing P214 and so forth on up the tree until he has a positive. If he does turn out to break up the M223 subclade though it would be very interesting to have more STRs for him.

lgmayka
06-09-2015, 11:48 PM
If he does turn out to break up the M223 subclade though it would be very interesting to have more STRs for him.
Yes, but we can get those from YFull's analysis of his BAM file (if he orders the Big Y).

I have offered to contribute toward his Big Y the next time FTDNA runs a discount sale.

eastara
06-16-2015, 07:51 AM
There is a possibility he is I2c2, there is a small cluster - a Bulgarian, an Albanian and another Serbian, who have the motif 15 24 15 10 14-1411 13 12 13 11 30, rather different from the other I2c2.
In fact, one of them is my brother N66516 - he has proven NEGATIVE by Geno 2.0 for PF3827, which is supposed to define the branch. Unfortunately, his Big Y did not pass quality control and I am still waiting for him to send a new sample.

lgmayka
06-17-2015, 03:52 PM
I have offered to contribute toward his Big Y the next time FTDNA runs a discount sale.
With assistance from a second donor as well as the jam15p coupon code, kit 386493 has indeed ordered the Big Y.

Huntergatherer1066
06-17-2015, 03:56 PM
Great to hear, keep us posted on the results.

HansDB
05-04-2017, 07:00 PM
What haplogroup did this sample turn out to be?

lgmayka
05-04-2017, 11:46 PM
What haplogroup did this sample turn out to be?
#386493 turned out to belong to I-Y16473 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y16473/), a subclade of I2a-Dinaric.

Rpink53
08-10-2018, 02:00 PM
Where does I2a-Dinaric start and end? I keep seeing the term and I am confused of the divergences.

lgmayka
08-11-2018, 02:17 AM
Where does I2a-Dinaric start and end?
I2a-Dinaric is an older term coined by Kenneth Nordtvedt. It corresponds to the clade that YFull calls I-Y3120 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y3120/) and FTDNA calls I-S20602.