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Christina
06-14-2015, 03:16 AM
A few questions:

1. Is it true that the concept we call "EEF" is based on the DNA of just one LBK individual from Stuttgart?

2. Is it true WHG is based just on Loschbour?

3. Is ANE based just on Malta?

See: http://bga101.blogspot.com/2013/12/eef-whg-ane-test-for-europeans.html

4. Is it true that EEF is considered a hybrid of multiple populations? If so, why don't we use the more basal component populations?

If any of the above are true, why is so much emphasis placed into these three constructs lately?

Christina
06-14-2015, 04:18 AM
Here's what I mean:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2013/12/23/001552

And on this thread, many of us expressed similar concerns with the limitations:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4550-EHG-and-ANE

Generalissimo
06-14-2015, 04:25 AM
It's a model, one of several that are available to us now.

These sorts of models try to simplify the real world to make it easier for us to understand it. This model has some limitations, but if not taken too literally, and cross checked with the newer models, it's still very useful, or in fact even more useful now than it was when it first came out.

tamilgangster
06-14-2015, 05:26 AM
A few questions:

1. Is it true that the concept we call "EEF" is based on the DNA of just one LBK individual from Stuttgart?

2. Is it true WHG is based just on Loschbour?

3. Is ANE based just on Malta?

See: http://bga101.blogspot.com/2013/12/eef-whg-ane-test-for-europeans.html

4. Is it true that EEF is considered a hybrid of multiple populations? If so, why don't we use the more basal component populations?

If any of the above are true, why is so much emphasis placed into these three constructs lately?

On eurogenes ANE proxy is the noneast eurasian elements among karitiana. One problem though is that it might also include localized elements not specific to ANE. ANE that is tested is not based on Malta boy because his genome is to archaic.

Megalophias
06-14-2015, 07:42 AM
Not sure how you got yourself banned, but presumably you can still read replies.

1. Strictly EEF is Stuttgart I think, but we have many European Neolithic farmer genomes that are used besides Stuttgart.
2. Besides Loschbour there are also LaBrana1 and HungaryGambaHG (AKA KO1).
3. ANE is just Mal'ta boy, though to a degree you can use modern populations like Karitiana as indirect proxies.
4. Yes, EEF is thought to be a mix (who isn't?). We cannot use the basal components because we do not have them - one component is probably close to WHG, but we have no Basal Eurasian genome. All modern populations are thoroughly mixed with all kinds of things.

These constructs are useful because they represent real ancient populations which could actually be ancestral to modern populations. Of course there are limitations, but their age makes them extremely valuable.

Tolan
06-14-2015, 08:16 AM
ANE is a very ancient component.
For me it is anachronistic to use it with WHG or EEF!

Helgenes50
06-14-2015, 08:21 AM
ANE is a very ancient component.
For me it is anachronistic to use it with WHG or EEF!

I agree, its' like comparing a French an English with a Solutrean

sweuro
06-14-2015, 12:04 PM
There is plenty of EEFs, not just Stuttgart. There is also Ôtzi, you have all the ones from Hungary, from Sweden, from Serbia, Germany, Spain..

And WHG could be also based on KO1 (hungarian) , because him and Loschbour are the purest WHG there is. There is many HGs, but have some ANE and/or EEF in them.

And Mal'ta is not the only ANE, there is also Afontova-Gora, altough he is 17,000 yo instead of 24k .

Megalophias
06-14-2015, 04:42 PM
Afontova-Gora is too contaminated to be a good source though, I believe.

parasar
06-15-2015, 02:33 AM
Afontova-Gora is too contaminated to be a good source though, I believe.

While that is true, AG2 helpful to show the nature of ANE in inner Asia - widespread geographically and present over a period of 7000 years. It confirms that MA1 is not an isolate.

J Man
06-15-2015, 09:27 PM
There is plenty of EEFs, not just Stuttgart. There is also Ôtzi, you have all the ones from Hungary, from Sweden, from Serbia, Germany, Spain..

And WHG could be also based on KO1 (hungarian) , because him and Loschbour are the purest WHG there is. There is many HGs, but have some ANE and/or EEF in them.

And Mal'ta is not the only ANE, there is also Afontova-Gora, altough he is 17,000 yo instead of 24k .

Purer than La Brana?

rms2
06-16-2015, 12:58 PM
Can anyone here provide a link to a table showing the ANE/WHG/EEF percentages of the various ancient genomes thus far recovered? I would appreciate it. Thanks!