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Grossvater
06-16-2015, 05:58 PM
I see from another thread that FTDNA has got a sale going on with a code that takes 15% off the purchase price. I have been thinking about purchasing a Big Y test. I'm not sure I can afford to shell out for two tests. I am interested to test my own R1b-U152 in order to find out more about its origins, who I might be related to, etc. But I am torn because I am also tempted to upgrade the 37 marker test we had done a few years ago on my wife's cousin, who carries their grandfather's Y-DNA which is Q1a3a1. We know his earliest recorded ancestor was a Native American man that lived in Nuevo Leon, in Mexico in the early 1700s. It is a big mystery what tribal grouping he was a part of...ancient Coahuiltecan speaking people or possibly Lipan Apache. But then again I would like to know more about my own R1b-U152...is it a more southerly version brought to Germany by Romans or is it a La Tene lineage or something else. Decisions, decisions...

If you were me, which would you choose?

Ignis90
06-16-2015, 06:08 PM
Well, I had a more or less similar experience and ended up buying tests for two other persons instead of buying one for me. A "mistake" because I was much more enthusiastic about their results than they were.


So, I'd say always buy first for the one who's the most interested in this stuff, which should be yourself (since it's your idea). And because there is more data available on any R1b subclade or branch than Q as a whole if I'm not mistaken.

MikeWhalen
06-16-2015, 08:25 PM
I would say yourself....the big Y results not only help you, possibly in a major way by discovering a new valid temninal SNP for you (as it did for me and my NPE family), but can be a very big help to the citizen scientists that spend so much of their own time keeping track of the results and squeezing out new insights and sometimes, new branches on the official haplogroup tree's (ie MikeWWW's invaluable work)

I do like the point Ignis90 made, which is, there comes a time when someone should be paying for their own testing, unless you are independently wealthy, or it somehow benefits you or your family group...
this quote says it all..."A "mistake" because I was much more enthusiastic about their results than they were."

my 2 cents

Mike

Táltos
06-16-2015, 09:17 PM
I would order my own if you are going to be more interested in the results than your wife's cousin. Little different circumstance, but I am much more interested in my brother's results than he is. :)

Also have you looked in the Haplogroup Q project's DNA results? I'm assuming you have access to your cousin-in-law's kit? If you do, have they grouped him under one of the newer SNPs yet? If they did maybe try testing him for that SNP. Or write to one of the Haplogroup Q administrators for advice on which SNP to test him for. I wonder if they ever plan on coming out with an SNP pack for Q? There are quite a few Native American Q's that have taken the Big Y. http://www.haplogroup.org/blog/2014/07/21/big-y-progress-q-m242-project/ Obviously though not as well represented as the R1b group.

You can also see what YSEQ has to offer for those SNPs for only $17.50. http://www.yseq.net/index.php?manufacturers_id=32&osCsid=12e7595133d1ee880c486cabc81d0dcd

ArmandoR1b
06-16-2015, 09:25 PM
Apart from what everyone else has stated, you won't learn very much from a 67 or 111 marker test for someone that is Q1a3a1 and you can't tell which tribe they are from even if they were to get a BigY test. I imagine that at some point the BigY test will be able to find Y-DNA SNPs more common in certain parts of Mexico but they are a very long way from being able to do that. You have more of a chance of learning more about your own line than his line.

AJL
06-17-2015, 12:41 AM
I'd agree with all the comments above. From a purely research perspective Q1a might be more interesting, but it's also a pool of testers with weaker genealogies/historical records. So as a matter of utility as well as personal interest, your U152 is probably more appealing to you.

Agamemnon
06-17-2015, 01:34 AM
Well, I had a more or less similar experience and ended up buying tests for two other persons instead of buying one for me. A "mistake" because I was much more enthusiastic about their results than they were.


So, I'd say always buy first for the one who's the most interested in this stuff, which should be yourself (since it's your idea). And because there is more data available on any R1b subclade or branch than Q as a whole if I'm not mistaken.

^^ My thoughts exactly. I went to great lengths in order to find out about my maternal grandfather's Y-DNA haplogroup, I think you should know more about my story before ordering: My maternal grandfather died when my mother was 18 or so, back in the late 60s, so I never actually met him. My mother idolised her father and made a role model out of him, to this very day she has pictures of him hanging in the living room, I'm also told I look like him (that happens quite often). Ever since I started focusing on population genetics (which eventually grew to be a personal hobby) I wondered about his Y-DNA haplogroup. My grandfather had a brother, but he died when I was still a child, so that was it, no male relatives left... Or so I thought. A couple of years ago, I became literally obsessed with finding out my maternal grandfather's Y-DNA, and so I decided to check whether there were any male relatives left. First of all, I had to find a reliable paper trail, and that wasn't easy to say the least but I managed to get my hands on such a document after several years of research. I then had to pinpoint male relatives, locate, and contact them. Believe it or not, this was one of the hardest parts. I managed to find a distant cousin of ours, from a branch of the family which stayed put in East Anglia, and so I sought to find him, which I eventually did. I established contact with him and explained what I was doing, convincing him to take the test wasn't easy but he finally accepted and so I bought the test and sent it to his address. When the results came back, I was thrilled (R1b-U152, just like you, which happens to be one of the branches I found to be the most fascinating)... However, my mother showed very little interest and even went as far as to claim she didn't care. Her cousin (her paternal uncle's daughter) didn't care much either. And so this whole endeavour ended up feeling kind of underwhelming, thankfully I thoroughly enjoyed this quest of mine and felt I was doing something good (contributing to my grandfather's memory? who knows).
My personal obsession with my grandfather's lineage didn't go away though, quite the contrary in fact, it grew stronger and became unhealthy. I ended up asking myself the exact same questions you're asking yourself right now (which U152 branch does my grandfather belong to?). And so last chrismukkah I contacted my far-flung relative and offered him to do a Big Y test, but he refused to provide a sample (I initially tested him with 23andMe, so I needed him to provide another sample for FTDNA). I decided to test my mother instead (she showed much more interest in her results haha) and focused on my own paternal line recently. Nevertheless, I'm still planning to find out which U152 subclade my grandfather carried, one way or the other.

I have another similar story about my mtDNA haplogroup mind you, back when I first found out about my mtDNA haplogroup I decided to phone a relative of mine who lived in Berwick, a very old woman who passed away a couple of weeks ago (unfortunately so) and knew a good deal about our family's history... When I asked her whether she wanted to know about her mtDNA haplogroup (as we shared the same) she said she didn't want to, and so I respected her wish, which makes me feel kind of guilty nowadays since she passed away without knowing.
All in all, the choice you make should depend on who's interested in this stuff, since some people simply couldn't care less.

Grossvater
06-17-2015, 03:23 AM
Thanks for all the responses, I very much appreciate it. I am in charge of my wife's cousin's account. Alas, he passed away from cancer a little over a year ago. There a several other male-line carriers of my wife's grandfather's Y-DNA but they live in far-flung parts of the country and may not give a flip about any of this. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing, but I'm concerned that my wife's late cousins' sample at FTDNA may become unusable over time and this may be my last chance to find out anything about them. My wife is enrolled with a state-recognized Indian Tribe that is seeking US federal recognition...it is possible that what I find out may become pertinent in the future.

Táltos
06-17-2015, 03:40 AM
Thanks for all the responses, I very much appreciate it. I am in charge of my wife's cousin's account. Alas, he passed away from cancer a little over a year ago. There a several other male-line carriers of my wife's grandfather's Y-DNA but they live in far-flung parts of the country and may not give a flip about any of this. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing, but I'm concerned that my wife's late cousins' sample at FTDNA may become unusable over time and this may be my last chance to find out anything about them. My wife is enrolled with a state-recognized Indian Tribe that is seeking US federal recognition...it is possible that what I find out may become pertinent in the future.

You're welcome, and I'm sorry to hear that he passed away. I can understand why you would worry. Not sure how many years the sample has been in storage, but FTDNA reports they can keep it for up to 25 years. I'm also not sure how many tests you have ordered on it. If it wasn't many I would imagine it should be enough for Big Y.