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View Full Version : Gauls in Hispania ¿L21 arrival of the Iberian Peninsula?



Franc
06-24-2015, 09:53 AM
Here's another hypothesis that could possibly fit the current study and me personally is that I like, to begin with this hypothesis we to refer to the book of Gaius Iulius Caesar "De Bello Civili" in this letter there is a episode that narrates the passage of a convoy of about six thousand people of Gallic origin along the corridor of the river Ebro in the year 49 BC, these people crossed the Pyrenees mountains to support Julius Caesar in his campaign against Pompey, it is unclear that the entire contingent was formed by Gauls but if it is clear that besides Gallic horsemen and archers Ruthenians a convoy of bullock carts moved with women, children and the rest of the families of these soldiers, so it was not just a group of mercenaries that life fighting to win Cesar if there was a large group of people from Gaul,This convoy was attacked by order of Pompey trying to break the supply lines of Gaius Julius Caesar, General Afranius was responsible for this attack, the Gauls riders went out to meet the Roman cavalry and gave time to the bulk of the convoy to get safe ,in this episode Gauls two hundred died, but the others continued forward and joined the staff of Cesar,after this episode does not get to talk about this group of people, presumably at the end of this campaign against Pompey this group of Gauls settled in a free zone for them in return for their services, this form of reward was common at that time, what is really important in this story starts now because we have evidence about the area where these Gauls established, as we all know were some place names are very old, in some cases thousands of years old, these place names remain despite the language they change, well, we have several names in this related to the root "Gall" and are concentrated in an area about 150 km about the area where the meeting took place of the Gauls with the General Afranio in Ilerda, I facilitated a plane of a study by Professor of Ancient History at the University of Zaragoza, Mr. Francisco Beltran Lloris in the places with toponyms related to the Gauls and all lie within the present territory of Aragon are exposed in the northeast of the Iberian Peninsula, I have developed an aerial map of the area where you have placed the names in the places where they belong ,if this large group of Gauls there established as it appears this might explain the introduction of L21 in the Iberian peninsula, the dispersion of this marker is "at the moment" a major development in the Northwest and Northeast in the peninsula and the expansion could result from this area of the present territory of Aragon,basing on the study of ancient history professor Francis Beltran Lloris've prepared a map showing the location of the ancient place names as; Pagus Gallorum, Forum Gallorum, Gallicus Caesaraugusta, Gallicum Flumen and modern place names as; Río Gállego, Gallur, Gurrea de Gállego and others. Also I have to point out the location of another group of Gauls in the foothills of the Pyrenees between the territory of Aragon and Catalonia during the same era, it is believed that they were Gauls that the name of this tribe was Volciani so we increased chances of L21 was introduced by these people in the Iberian peninsula.http://www.grupohiberus.es/biblioteca/beltran4.pdf

RCO
06-24-2015, 02:20 PM
The complete sequence of specific regional Iberian R1b-L21 SNPs could tell about the closest matches around 2000 years ago.
http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L21/

Miqui Rumba
03-17-2019, 10:49 PM
First R-L21 remain dated in Roman Period (200-500 AD) thanks to new data collection in http://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2019/03/13/363.6432.1230.DC1
I6492, RomanP. mtdna T2b11, ydna R1b1a1a2a1a2c:L21:15654428C->G; R1:CTS997:7132713G->A; R1:P286:17716251C->T
It's a pity, low coverage sample. We need more ancient R-L21 samples with subclades

alan
03-18-2019, 12:11 AM
Ive long worked on the assumption that the language of the Basques was brought to the Spanish Basque country by displaced Aquitani from the part of Gallia Aquitania between the Pyrenees and the Garrone. There were also many Celtic tribes in Gallia Aquitania too. Any displacement of people from Gallia Aquitania would likely have also brought Celtic lineages too. I suspect L21 arrived with the same displacements that brought the Basques to Spain but that L21 had originally been a Celtic/Gaulish lineage that had been absorbed into the Vasconic Aquitanian population who were displaced into Spain at the end of the Roman era. However, that is interesting information about earlier Gaulish settlement in northern Spain.

Goodman
03-18-2019, 05:56 AM
Hopefully soon more R1b L21 will be found on mainland Europe not just in the British Isles. Fingers crossed 🤞

Miqui Rumba
03-19-2019, 11:11 AM
Proto-basque language and calcholitic iberian dialects might be one common tongue that spread all northern Europe during Late Neolithic (Vasconic Age) althought it became isolated in South France and Iberia after CordedWare/Bellbaker expansion. Ancient iberian and basque tongue share number system and many nouns while phonetics and grammar is closer to aquitani. If actually R1b-M269 settlers in Occitaine and Iberia spoke indo-european, they surely lost their speaking accepting local native non indoeuropean. When Romans arrived to Hispania only celtiberians and gaellicians spoke indoeuropean and they incame only 300 years before about 600 BC. New data about iberian Iron Age (Olalde et al. 2019) have confirmed that most of basques and iberians belong to R1b-DF27 since 1,500 BC at least. I know one native basque R-L21** (no clade detected in yfull yet) and some catalan descendants R1b-Z253-Z2189 like me. More than Gauls, I think our R1b-L21 ancestors are connected to British Bell beaker's Late Bronze Age crisis, when most of local population left Ireland to Mainland, they surely helped aquitani to stop celtic invasion.