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alhoy58
06-26-2015, 04:37 AM
I'm new to this site. The stuff you guys post is great. I'm very much a novice but thought I'd forward my results in case one of you finds it interesting.

YSEQ R1b-Z251 panel: positive for Z16943, negative for Z16944, negative for CTS4157. I guess that makes me Z16943*.
Years ago I did some testing at FTDNA. My kit number is N42075.
Also was tested at 23andme.

My surname is Hoy. I can trace my male line back to Germany in the late 1600's. In Germany my surname was spelled "Hey" which evolved from "de la Haye". They were Hugeonauts very likely (unproven) from France.

Hope this helps.

Al

cairn
06-26-2015, 06:31 PM
Hello Al! Welcome to the forum. A new marker was recently unveiled under Z16943 which you might consider testing for. The marker is A6078 and it's available at YSEQ (http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=11765). I am also Z16943* and I ordered the A6078 test a few weeks ago. No results yet, but it's a brand new test, so I expect it to take a bit longer than usual.

Have you joined the Z251 project at Family Tree DNA (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-z251/about)?

Best regards,
cairn

alhoy58
06-27-2015, 05:57 AM
Cairn,

Thanks for the welcome. I may test for A6078 although I will most likely sit for awhile and see what develops under Z16943. I'm not sure how these markers are discovered but look forward to whatever may be turned up in the future.
I have not joined the FTDNA Z251 project because I have only tested 12 markers. It looks like membership requires 67 markers and I'm not likely to do that anytime soon.

Al

seferhabahir
06-28-2015, 09:21 PM
Cairn,
I have not joined the FTDNA Z251 project because I have only tested 12 markers. It looks like membership requires 67 markers and I'm not likely to do that anytime soon.


You can go ahead and join the Z251 project even at 12 markers, since you have several relevant downstream SNP results. There is not a strict requirement to have 67 markers. Please consider joining and I would also encourage you to test for A6078 when you can.

cairn
06-30-2015, 09:52 PM
My surname is Hoy. I can trace my male line back to Germany in the late 1600's. In Germany my surname was spelled "Hey" which evolved from "de la Haye". They were Hugeonauts very likely (unproven) from France.

Hope this helps.

Al

It is interesting that your family history may lead to France. The two surnames that just placed into the new A6078 subclade (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=475&star=true) both seem to have French origins, though their most distant known ancestor is from England in both cases. I don't know anything about the family histories behind these two samples, but the fact that your family also may have come from France is intriguing.

This adds a bit to the mystery of Z251 - each of the three major branches (Z16943, Z11556, and FGC13889) all seem to have subclades with distinctly continental origins along with the majority of samples with British Isles origins. I have no idea about what historical migrations might have caused such a spread of Z251 branches. The other L21 subclades don't seem to have quite this same spread (though I'm not knowledgeable enough to know that with any confidence).

alhoy58
07-03-2015, 04:34 AM
Cairn,

"de la Haye" is said to be a Norman surname. That likely puts them in the part of France that was greatly effected by the reformation. Many in this area where forced to leave France due to their religious beliefs. I think this happened to my family. Forced to leave they spread in all directions, England, Germany, Holland, America to name a few. That might explain some of the spread of Z251 you noted.

Further back it is very possible (likely) some of these same people may have gone to England with William the Conqueror.

Further back, being Norman, perhaps they were part of the Viking escapades.

All of this is just a theory but it is not that far fetched and could explain a lot of Z251 movement.

danieldgray
07-04-2015, 12:27 PM
I think there is a good case to be made that there is a tie between z251 and Viking expeditions. The history of the Gray name ties back to Normandy France. Many of the locations and surnames of other z251 individuals seem to correspond to Viking settlements.

I noted my thoughts on this in a separate thread which I have copied below:

The s9294 dispersion into Belaruse, Lithuania and other Baltic areas, may be attributed to the Viking encroachment into this area between the 9th and 11th centuries. The area was ruled under the medieval state of Rus. Historical records state that Rurik conquered Novgorod in 862 and Oleg conquered Kiev in 862. The Norseman in this area established the Vangarian Guard and the Volga trade route. The geographic dispersion of s9294 appears to be consistent with historical Viking settlements from Caithness Scottland/Orkneys (McCall, Irvine, Erwin), to Normandy, France (Gray Rickwood, Brock, Lewis, Churchman, Herrington), to Vangarian presence in Belaruse, Latvia and Lithuania (Burde,Yurzditisky, Prago, Pagalis, Kabo).

dt4067
10-31-2015, 09:10 AM
I am also Z16943* and our Trezise surname may have links to Normandy and Brittany. There have long been rumours and many persons with the Trezise surname live in the area. However it could be that one with our surname went to France from England more recently and has started a dynasty.

Helgenes50
10-31-2015, 09:28 AM
Cairn,

"de la Haye" is said to be a Norman surname. That likely puts them in the part of France that was greatly effected by the reformation. Many in this area where forced to leave France due to their religious beliefs. I think this happened to my family. Forced to leave they spread in all directions, England, Germany, Holland, America to name a few. That might explain some of the spread of Z251 you noted.

Further back it is very possible (likely) some of these same people may have gone to England with William the Conqueror.

Further back, being Norman, perhaps they were part of the Viking escapades.

All of this is just a theory but it is not that far fetched and could explain a lot of Z251 movement.

De la Haye, this Norman surname is present and always very alive in Normandy in an area where a large number of place names are Scandinavian, i.e. of Viking origin.

alhoy58
03-03-2016, 04:55 AM
As you suggested, I have tested for A6078 with YSEQ. I am negative so I remain at the Z16943 level. I have seen mention another SNP under Z16943 named A4257. YSEQ doesn't seem to test for it. Any ideas where I can test for A4257?

cairn
03-07-2016, 09:33 PM
As you suggested, I have tested for A6078 with YSEQ. I am negative so I remain at the Z16943 level. I have seen mention another SNP under Z16943 named A4257. YSEQ doesn't seem to test for it. Any ideas where I can test for A4257?

Thank you for testing below Z16943! Currently, no company offers a single SNP test for A4257 or its equivalents. YSEQ does offer a test for ZP110 (http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=11485) which occurs two steps down from A4257, but I wouldn't recommend testing for it unless you have a relatively close STR match to the other ZP110+ kits.

There are currently three Z16943* kits (one of which is mine) awaiting results from Full Genomes and I expect that the results from these three kits will reveal another branch or two below Z16943. If we're lucky, any new branches will be marked by an SNP for which a single SNP test can be prepared. I'd recommend waiting for these results before pursuing further single SNP testing. If you are able to get a Full Genomes Y Elite test or Family Tree DNA's Big Y, that would be the preferred option since you'd help us in our search for new branches.