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Lugus
07-07-2015, 06:20 AM
Does anyone know anything about this haplogroup aside from Mielnick-Sikorska et al. 2013? At FtDNA I get full sequence one step matches with people in Russia and Poland. I don't know of any Slavic ancestors.

Moderator
07-08-2015, 07:15 AM
[MOD] Welcome to the forum, Lugus!

Thread moved from The Lounge to mtDNA H - 1 day temporary link redirect in place, thread OP informed, thanks for your cooperation

thetick
07-31-2015, 03:29 AM
A single MTDNA mutation could be thousands of years old or it could be between a mother and child alive today. MtDNA results are generally not very useful for genealogy and many cases not useful for ethnic identification.

All my one and two step H5a1f matches are Polish/Russian as are all my known ancestors on my MTDNA line. AND ALL my three step matches are Scottish. No idea if line line is Slavic or Anglo .. but suspect the common ancestor between my 2 step and 3 step matches are likely many thousands of years ago long before Slavic or Anglo ethnic groups. I like to think this could be a much more recent Scottish Polish connection but I think this is much less likely.

Lugus
08-01-2015, 03:19 PM
You're right about mitochondrial DNA being problematic (and annoying) but in your case the matches actually agree with your known ancestry. In my case the haplogroup itself with its strong Central and Eastern European flavor is strange and out of place. So far it hasn't been detected in Portugal by research (hundreds of samples). I have carefully plotted and analysed all available genbank results and I don't think we're talking about a distance of thousands of years as the haplogroup itself seems to be between 2,500-5,000 years old and I found 6 step matches. I guess I'll have to wait for more research.

GailT
08-02-2015, 03:34 PM
I'm one of the volunteers for the H5 project although I'm not up to date on the latest H5 samples - I have too many mtDNA projects and am going to drop the H projects. I have an age estimate of about 5000 years for H5a2, and it is widely distributed across Europe and Russia. If you are H5a2 with 1 extra mutation, your 1 step matches could date to 5000 years ago (pre-dating the origins of Slavs, Germans, etc) so you really need to find matches who share your extra mutation to get a better estimate of the geographic origins of your branch of H5a2. For most people, mtDNA can point to a place of origin around 1000-3000 years ago, although for some people it will be much more distant and for others much more recent depending on how many extra mutations they have.

Táltos
08-02-2015, 04:13 PM
I'm one of the volunteers for the H5 project although I'm not up to date on the latest H5 samples - I have too many mtDNA projects and am going to drop the H projects. I have an age estimate of about 5000 years for H5a2, and it is widely distributed across Europe and Russia. If you are H5a2 with 1 extra mutation, your 1 step matches could date to 5000 years ago (pre-dating the origins of Slavs, Germans, etc) so you really need to find matches who share your extra mutation to get a better estimate of the geographic origins of your branch of H5a2. For most people, mtDNA can point to a place of origin around 1000-3000 years ago, although for some people it will be much more distant and for others much more recent depending on how many extra mutations they have.

Sad to hear that you will be dropping the H projects. Thank you for all of your wonderful work in helping us with the H lineages. :)

Lugus
08-02-2015, 05:04 PM
so you really need to find matches who share your extra mutation to get a better estimate of the geographic origins of your branch of H5a2. For most people, mtDNA can point to a place of origin around 1000-3000 years ago, although for some people it will be much more distant and for others much more recent depending on how many extra mutations they have.

My extra mutation is in the coding region and on Ftdna we don't have access to those mutations, not even anonymously, so I can't compare there. Also the other information (matches and countries of origin) is deficient and doesn't appear complete in all the places it should (in the matches map and the project). Different things appear in different places. Quite frustrating and to a certain extent useless. It doesn't exactly encourage people to get tested.

I did compare with all the sequences published in genbank and I was surprised to see that almost all mutations are unique, in other words, no one exactly matches anyone, although some kind of subclade does seem to appear. Also my mutation is unique. I can send you the file if you're interested, just tell me how.

GailT
08-02-2015, 08:01 PM
My extra mutation is in the coding region and on Ftdna we don't have access to those mutations, not even anonymously, so I can't compare there. Also the other information (matches and countries of origin) is deficient and doesn't appear complete in all the places it should (in the matches map and the project). Different things appear in different places. Quite frustrating and to a certain extent useless. It doesn't exactly encourage people to get tested.

Yes, those are all serious limitations. Also, only about 20% of the people who test the mtDNA FMS join the mtDNA haplogroup projects. Many of those do not share their coding region results, or fail to enter a most distant maternal ancestor, or list a man as their most distant maternal ancestor. FTDNA does not do a good job of promoting the mtDNA haplogroup projects or educating their customers on how to use mtDNA test results.

As a project admin I can only see results of people who joined the project AND shared their CR results. I think I see you in the project list and will send a PM with some additional info.

Gail

GailT
08-02-2015, 08:13 PM
PM sent...