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View Full Version : H33c. Any info? Apparnently a Yamnaya sample had this



username_required0202
07-19-2015, 01:52 PM
Does anybody have any information at all on H33c? No one on 23andMe or GEDmatch shares this with me. From my mothers side it should at the very least exist around the Rhine River in Germany. According to Maciamo (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29666-Copper-amp-Bronze-Age-Steppe-people-%28PIE%29-had-mixed-light-and-dark-pigmentation) from Eupedia one of the samples from Yamnaya (Ben3) had this marker. Is it originally from the East European steppe or is it from the neolithic farmers? Thanks.

DMXX
07-19-2015, 02:01 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Jean M's Ancestral Journeys page on Ancient Eurasian DNA (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) is an excellent database for the various aDNA results published to date.

BEN3 is listed with the following information:



Yamnaya Bulgaria Benkovski [BEN3] 5000–4500 y.a. H 4937C, 8935T, 13269G, 16188T Wilde 2014


I'm no mtDNA H guru, but I can't imagine such a specific subclade (H33c) could be gleamed from just four mitochondrial mutation regions (these look like HVR1?). Not sure how Maciamo arrived at that conclusion. Perhaps Jean M or an mtDNA H specialist could chime in here.

evon
07-19-2015, 02:25 PM
Modern H33c samples:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h33_genbank_sequences.htm

username_required0202
07-20-2015, 01:48 AM
DMXX,

Yeah, I had looked at ancestral journeys before posting and was confused as to why she had listed BEN3 as simply H compared to Maciamo. I noticed on PhyloTree.org that H33c was defined with the C16188T. Could that be how Maciamo deduced the specific subclade? Thanks for the help!
evon,

Awesome, thanks for that link! So there are samples in Turkey, Italy, England, and the Caucasus. Along with its sister clades it looks like it expanded from the Middle East during the neolithic. Its interesting that there are so few people that I can find with a similar mtDNA profile. I wonder if it just wasn't very successful in expanding after the tumultuous Bronze Age or if we just need more testing in the Middle East. As I stated earlier there should be a bit of H33c in western Germany as well.

hannah-lena
05-09-2017, 08:50 AM
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14484

I found this scientific report from 2015, where they also mention H33.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep14484/tables/2 (search for H33c)
Although the opinions about the Turin Shroud differ the report is very interesting !
They found H33c particles on it... whensoever it was made.