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Jon
07-29-2015, 08:38 AM
Hi All,

With the flurry of new L153 results in, including many big Y, I thought I'd have a bit of fun...any new impressions on possible origins for L513, or indeed any of its downstream subgroups?

I am far from an expert but, based on L513 being fairly well represented all over the islands, but seemingly with a bias towards Scotland and Ireland, I'd go for insular Celtic groups, possibly the remnants of Brythonic speakers in both Britain and Ireland. This would explain the strong presence in the old Airgialla region in Ireland (where those more experienced than myself have pointed to Brittonic ancient sites around there); and the focus of L193 around the Clyde valley (Strathclyde Britons?). A close second for me is Irish/Scottish Gaels, possibly represented in the south-west of Scotland by the famous Gall-Gaidheal. This is supported by a ScotlandsDNA statement that '5% of Hebridean men are S215 (L513)'.

I am no expert, but I find speculation like this simply fun, as well as thought-provoking as new results come in...

Jon

Mag Uidhir 6
07-29-2015, 08:15 PM
YFull has some age estimates on their experimental tree that are useful, in my opinion.

R-DF1S5191 * CTS5396/S5196 * Z249/S279... 4 SNPsformed 4300 ybp, TMRCA 3700 ybp

R-DF1*
id:YF02638IRL [IE-DL]
R-S6365S6365formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybp
R-S6365*
id:YF01735
R-L706.2L706/L706.1/L706.2
R-L706.2*
R-L705.2L705/L705.1/L705.2/S465/S465.2
id:NA12399CEU
R-Y3553Z16361/BY16/Y3553formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybp
R-Y3553*
id:YF03046
R-CTS3087Z16367/FGC13413/Y3552 * Z16362/FGC13412/Y3554 * CTS750/S8129... 7 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp
id:HG00103GBR
id:YF01570DEU
id:YF03889new
R-S5668FGC9776/Y12649 * FGC13493/BY15/A2 * S5668formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybp
R-S5668*
id:YF01451IRL
id:YF01524
id:YF03162SWE [SE-AC]
id:YF03652BEL [BE-VOV]
R-S5979S5979 * FGC13499/A7formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybp
R-S5979*
id:YF02893
R-Y10794Z17297/Y10794 * S7123 * Z17298/Y10795... 16 SNPsformed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 650 ybp
id:YF02439
id:YF02700ENG

Jon
07-30-2015, 09:50 AM
Thanks! I wonder if these dates say anything about the age of the relationship between the Scottish and Irish subclades under S5668? My guess is that that is too old to be part of the set-up of Dalriada, but perhaps reflects older link-ups between the peoples on both sides. What do you think?