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Rathna
12-15-2012, 05:59 AM
CTS1078 Z2103
PF7575 Z2104
CTS7340 Z2107
CTS1843 Z2109
CTS7822 Z2110
CTS5981 Z2115
CTS10379 Z2116
PF7589 Z2118
CTS7153 Z2119



Thanks to daver’s compendium, has anyone results about these SNPs?

Joe B
05-08-2013, 05:18 PM
CTS1078 Z2103
PF7575 Z2104
CTS7340 Z2107
CTS1843 Z2109
CTS7822 Z2110
CTS5981 Z2115
CTS10379 Z2116
PF7589 Z2118
CTS7153 Z2119
Thanks to daver’s compendium, has anyone results about these SNPs?

Rathna,
We have had some luck finding CTS7822/Z2110. In another thread you wrote of Z2106-Z2110 for testing.
Can you give us some more information about the above list of snps. Perhaps that will help in finding more.
Thanks, Joe

Rathna
05-08-2013, 05:44 PM
Rathna,
We have had some luck finding CTS7822/Z2110. In another thread you wrote of Z2106-Z2110 for testing.
Can you give us some more information about the above list of snps. Perhaps that will help in finding more.
Thanks, Joe

Joe B, I posted this on December 2012. I found these SNPs in what I called the “daver’s compendium”. “daver” is David Reynolds, one of the citizen scientists of the 1 Thousand Genome Project with Richard Rocca and others.
Perhaps you should ask Richard Rocca, who, from what answered me in another thread and for some postings about a new work on 1KGP which are in many forums, probably knows more than me about this stuff. From what he wrote about this Chinese R-L23/Z2103/Z2105+ but Z2106 to Z2110- he would be the more ancient of this haplogroup found so far, then ancestral to all these Z2110+ who are springing up from these Geno 2.0.
But, as I have said in another thread, also this Chinese is a subclade of a subclade of a subclade as to that R-L23* from which was born R-L51.

Rathna
05-08-2013, 07:27 PM
Z2103 CTS1078 Z2103 7246135 7186135
Z2104 PF7575 Z2104 12677962 14167962
Z2105 14256826 15747432
Z2106 12723646 14213646
Z2107 CTS7340 Z2107 15938378 17428984
Z2108 12176901 13716901
Z2109 CTS1843 Z2109 12601439 14091439
Z2110 CTS7822 Z2110 16194093 17684699

Z2111 3323086 3263086
Z2112 4652104 4592104
Z2113 6028320 5968320
Z2114 13757450 15248056
Z2115 CTS5981 Z2115 15101312 16591918
Z2116 CTS10379 Z2116 17936652 19427258
Z2117 7544708 7484708
Z2118 PF7589 Z2118 8127783 8067783
Z2119 CTS7153 Z2119 15833558 17324164
Z2120 12332081 13822081

Joe B
05-10-2013, 12:19 AM
Z2103 CTS1078 Z2103 7246135 7186135
Z2104 PF7575 Z2104 12677962 14167962
Z2105 14256826 15747432
Z2106 12723646 14213646
Z2107 CTS7340 Z2107 15938378 17428984
Z2108 12176901 13716901
Z2109 CTS1843 Z2109 12601439 14091439
Z2110 CTS7822 Z2110 16194093 17684699

Z2111 3323086 3263086
Z2112 4652104 4592104
Z2113 6028320 5968320
Z2114 13757450 15248056
Z2115 CTS5981 Z2115 15101312 16591918
Z2116 CTS10379 Z2116 17936652 19427258
Z2117 7544708 7484708
Z2118 PF7589 Z2118 8127783 8067783
Z2119 CTS7153 Z2119 15833558 17324164
Z2120 12332081 13822081

From the above Z-snps, five got something going on with FTDNA, ISOGG or Geno 2.0. I'm sure there could be more so please add to the list.

Approx hg; R-L150
Z2103/CTS1078 - FTDNA ISOGG
Z2105 - FTDNA ISOGG
Z2110/CTS7822 - GENO 2.0

Approx hg; R-L51
Z2113 - FTDNA (advanced order snp)
Z2118/PF7589 - GENO 2.0

TigerMW
10-28-2013, 02:57 AM
Do you see anything wrong with the below or anything missing? as far as what's right downstream of L23 and Z2103? These are the the rules I'm using in my spreadsheet. This is important for picking up new R1b Z2130 or L51xL11 people. I can quickly copy and paste FTDNA Y SNP report screens into my spreadsheets. Once there, if the formulas are right, it'll sort out what SNPs are relevant out of those long strings. No eye test or phylogenetic memory gymnastics are required. The spreadsheet will flag haplogroups. I've found a few people in the ht35 project that are really DF27+ this way (I need to let the admins know.) I'm also finding people in the R1b and R1ba1a2 projects that belong in the ht35 project or DF27/P312 projects this way. (It's problematic that Geno 2 doesn't test for P312 and DF27.)

L23+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23; * = L51- ** = Z2103-, Equivalents: S141,L49.1 R1b1a2a (R1b1a2a1 for L150 aggregated here)
L51+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51; * = L11- ** = Z2115-, Equivalents: /M412/PF6536/S167 R1b1a2a1a

Z2115+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>Z2115+; Terminal

Z2103+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103; * = L277- L584- ** = L150.2-, Equivalents: /CTS1078,Z2105
L277+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L277.1+; Terminal
L584+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L584+; Terminal R1b1a2a1b
L150.2+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L150.2+; Terminal R1b1a2a1b

PF7558+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
PF7562+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
PF7563+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
L405+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2104+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Z2106+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Z2107+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Z2108+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Z2109+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269

L943+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
L944+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
L945+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
L946+ >>> Unpositioned under L584

Z2110+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2111+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2112+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2113+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2116+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2117+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2118+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2119+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
Z2120+ >>> Unpositioned under L23

PF6534+ >>> equivalent to L23
L49+ >>> equivalent to L23
Z2105+ >>> equivalent to Z2103
CTS1078+ >>> equivalent to Z2103

PF7575+ >>> equivalent to Z2104
CTS7340+ >>> equivalent to Z2107
CTS1843+ >>> equivalent to Z2109
CTS7822+ >>> equivalent to Z2110
CTS5981+ >>> equivalent to Z2115
CTS10379+ >>> equivalent to Z2116
PF7589+ >>> equivalent to Z2118
CTS7153+ >>> equivalent to Z2119

PF6536+ >>> equivalent to L51

Joe B
10-28-2013, 04:55 PM
Do you see anything wrong with the below or anything missing? as far as what's right downstream of L23 and Z2103? These are the the rules I'm using in my spreadsheet. This is important for picking up new R1b Z2130 or L51xL11 people. I can quickly copy and paste FTDNA Y SNP report screens into my spreadsheets. Once there, if the formulas are right, it'll sort out what SNPs are relevant out of those long strings. No eye test or phylogenetic memory gymnastics are required. The spreadsheet will flag haplogroups. I've found a few people in the ht35 project that are really DF27+ this way (I need to let the admins know.) I'm also finding people in the R1b and R1ba1a2 projects that belong in the ht35 project or DF27/P312 projects this way. (It's problematic that Geno 2 doesn't test for P312 and DF27.)

CTS1083 is a mistake that won't go away. CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Alice Fairhurst fixed the R y-tree last July removing CTS1083. I don't see CTS1083 on the snp index either.
Thanks. I fixed the R tree. --Alice July 15 email


Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca From R-L150 to R-CTS7822 #16 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1096-From-R-L150-to-R-CTS7822/page2&highlight=CTS1083)
CTS1083 is not equivalent to Z2103 or Z2105 and it is found in haplogroup C. Are you sure you typed it correctly?

CTS7822/Z2110+ Should they test for L277 and/or L584?
As one who lacks the aptitude for the mental gymnastics this requires, thanks.

TigerMW
10-29-2013, 01:22 AM
CTS1083 is a mistake that won't go away. CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
Alice Fairhurst fixed the R y-tree last July removing CTS1083. I don't see CTS1083 on the snp index either.

I saw CTS1083 on an old blog and I saw it in David Reynold's compendium, but it may have been an old version. I'll remove. Not sure if it was picked up anyway in the files. It sounds like probably not.


CTS7822/Z2110+ Should they test for L277 and/or L584?
As one who lacks the aptitude for the mental gymnastics this requires, thanks.

We need someone to look at the raw results for all L23+ L51- people and see where Z2110 is negative versus a no call. This is the kind of thing David Reynolds does for L21 or David Carlisle does for U106 (I think).

Any volunteers?

What I meant about mental gymastics is the formulas can do the work of one's eyes and memory but if the formula parameters are wrong/I have SNPs programmed incorrectly... well that's no good.

I've got about 20 SW/Central Asian/Ethnic projects to run through and can do it in a couple of hours without error if I have everything programmed correctly.

Paulie
12-06-2013, 04:52 AM
L23+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23; * = L51- ** = Z2103-, Equivalents: S141,L49.1 R1b1a2a (R1b1a2a1 for L150 aggregated here)
L51+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51; * = L11- ** = Z2115-, Equivalents: /M412/PF6536/S167 R1b1a2a1a

Z2115+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>Z2115+; Terminal
Z2118+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
PF7589+ >>> equivalent to Z2118
PF6536+ >>> equivalent to L51

Hi! I'm L51+/L11- and also S161+ which EA discovered when testing for S136 (which I'm negative) back in 2009.

Just received my Geno2 results, and per the above:

Not showing Z2115.
I am showing Z2118+
Not showing PF7589.
Not showing PF6536.

Best,
-Paul

Rathna
12-06-2013, 08:12 AM
Hi! I'm L51+/L11- and also S161+ which EA discovered when testing for S136 (which I'm negative) back in 2009.

Just received my Geno2 results, and per the above:

Not showing Z2115.
I am showing Z2118+
Not showing PF7589.
Not showing PF6536.

Best,
-Paul

Hi Paulie, probably we knew each other at the times of Rootsweb or DNA-forums (for me before 2009). We were close for the STRs, but I came out R-Z2105 and you R-L51, now I'd say R-Z2118*.
We don't know if Z2118 is equivalent to S161 and if it is comprised in Chromo2. From what you say it is in the region of S136. About this SNP I have written a lot. It is surely comprised in Chromo2, and for BritainsDNA is equivalent to L50 (7,012,023), but I have in that region a deletion of 9bp and am waiting from more than two months for my Chromo2, I don't know why.

Rathna
12-06-2013, 08:52 AM
This Mikewww wrote above:
PF7589+ >>> equivalent to Z2118
PF6536+ >>> equivalent to L51
Then PF7589 is equivalent to Z2118 and I don't know why Geno 2.0 signaled you as Z2118 and not PF7589+, because the other two R-L51 tested are positive for this SNP:

22103 John Thomas Worner, b. 1786 SC; d. 1880 LA R1b1a2a1a R-L51
231206 Samuel Cornwell, 1786, Prince William County VA R1b1a2a1a R-L51

Then it seems that all the R-L51 tested so far are R-Z2118+.
I think you should send your data to FTDNA and also to the "Itai Perez spreadsheet".

Rathna
12-06-2013, 10:28 AM
1907 R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167 30 [1/1066]
1908 105470 109760 111988 134706 143613 148406 185134 236058 41519 46468 49624 50168 52781 67450 80593 97317 E2689 E4861 E5620 N5273 N60919N60919


R1b1a2a1–1 PF7589 [5/5]
1966 R1b1a2a1–1–1 CTS2484 [1/1], CTS6397
R [1/1]
1967 N66729
1968 R1b1a2a1–1–2 CTS6889 [4/4]
1969 221033, 231206, 250621, 252171

This is the R-L51 haplotree in the Morley's tree 4.
So far no L51* has been found, nor Z2118/PF7589*.

It would be interesting if Paulie said his position as to CTS2484, CTS6397, CTS6889.

Paulie
12-07-2013, 03:59 AM
1907 R1b1a2a1 M412/L51/PF6536/S167 30 [1/1066]
1908 105470 109760 111988 134706 143613 148406 185134 236058 41519 46468 49624 50168 52781 67450 80593 97317 E2689 E4861 E5620 N5273 N60919N60919


R1b1a2a1–1 PF7589 [5/5]
1966 R1b1a2a1–1–1 CTS2484 [1/1], CTS6397
R [1/1]
1967 N66729
1968 R1b1a2a1–1–2 CTS6889 [4/4]
1969 221033, 231206, 250621, 252171

This is the R-L51 haplotree in the Morley's tree 4.
So far no L51* has been found, nor Z2118/PF7589*.

It would be interesting if Paulie said his position as to CTS2484, CTS6397, CTS6889.

I don't have any of those three showing.

Rathna
12-07-2013, 05:57 AM
I don't have any of those three showing.

It would be interesting, because you could be the first R-Z2118*, and if I remember well that your origin was in Switzerland/South Germany, this could demonstrate that you are close to the place of origin of L51 (that for me and Argiedude was North Italy or nearby).
But for being sure about this we should be sure that you haven't any no-calls there and above all to see if you have other SNPs. For this it is necessary that you send your data to the "Itai Perez spreadsheet".

Rathna
12-07-2013, 09:14 AM
It would be interesting, because you could be the first R-Z2118*, and if I remember well that your origin was in Switzerland/South Germany, this could demonstrate that you are close to the place of origin of L51 (that for me and Argiedude was North Italy or nearby).
But for being sure about this we should be sure that you haven't any no-calls there and above all to see if you have other SNPs. For this it is necessary that you send your data to the "Itai Perez spreadsheet".

If Paulie's haplotype finds the closest one in Hooks, there is also the Italian Amato who is very close and others overall in Europe. This to answer the question I posed above about the possible origin of R-Z2118* and possibly of other more ancestral haplotypes.

MBXFQ Amato Menfi, Italy
13 23 14 11 13 14 13 12 11 14 13 29
2KSW3 Hooks Unknown
13 23 14 11 13 14 13 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 10 11 27 15 19 29 14 16 17 18
4D6V6 Hollands Lewes, England
13 23 14 11 11 14 13 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 31 15 15 16 17 11 11 19 22 15 14 19 17 36 38 12 12
4NKUZ Brown Unknown
13 24 14 11 12 14 13 12 11 13 13 28 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 22 15 15 18 18 37 39 12 12
B6SVE Krenek Valasska Bystrice-Roznov, Mähren/Moravia, Austria
13 24 14 11 13 14 13 12 11 13 13 28
CDYDX Bertl Semlin, Serbia
13 23 14 11 11 13 13 12 11 14 13 29 20 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 16 17 18 10 10 19 22 16 14 17 14 35 36 13 12
RFS8E Lee Yeo Salop, England
13 23 14 11 11 14 13 12 11 13 13 28

Rathna
12-07-2013, 10:17 AM
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 11 15 19 16 17 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 16 17 23 10 18 22 13 12 17 11 - >>
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 16 17 23 12 16 22 13 12 18 10 - >>
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 16 18 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 17 17 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 17 17 23 12 18 22 14 13 17 10 - >>
3 of 1476 United States [European American] Eurasian - European North America
1 of 505 Aargau, Switzerland [Swiss] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 31 Rio Branco, Brazil [Admixed Brazilian] Admixed Latin America
1 of 1431 United States [African American] African - Afro-American North America

One close match to Paulie is just the African American from the US:
1 14 13 30 24 11 13 13 13,14 12 12 15 19 16 17 23 10 18 22 13 12 17 11 - >>
1 of 1431 United States [African American] African - Afro-American North America
with only a difference in DYS576: 18 against 19. I'd say that, even though we haven't DYS426=13, the match could be given for certain.

Paulie
12-07-2013, 02:06 PM
I'm kit 67450. Origin is unknown, that's why I got into this. :)

My H4=9 is also off from other types of 426=13.

http://www.ysearch.org/research_start.asp?fail=2&uid=DZ7XA&vallist=DZ7XA%2c+265PG%2C+YFP3T%2C+V47TY%2C+PSNZP% 2C+2KSW3%2C+DZ7XA%2C+YFP3T%2C+EPSCJ%2C+6YU88

Rathna
12-07-2013, 02:26 PM
I'm kit 67450. Origin is unknown, that's why I got into this. :)

My H4=9 is also off from other types of 426=13.

http://www.ysearch.org/research_start.asp?fail=2&uid=DZ7XA&vallist=DZ7XA%2c+265PG%2C+YFP3T%2C+V47TY%2C+PSNZP% 2C+2KSW3%2C+DZ7XA%2C+YFP3T%2C+EPSCJ%2C+6YU88

I did know very well who you are, and from that I did my analyses. Others reproached me for having revealed their name and I didn't say yours. It is just from your data (not only H4=9, which is 10 on YHRD, but also DYS385=13-14 (Kittel 14-13), and other rare mutations you have)that I am sure of what I said.
The anonymous American (an Africam American but clearly with an European Y), those Hooks (previous Kooks), that person from Switzerland and before the Italian Amato, I think trace your line of descent, which is for me that of hg. R-L51, but a line of some thousands of years.
But if you desire to find the most recent ancestors of yours, I think you should get 23andMe.
By that I found the father of an adopted American woman and I am searching for her mother.

Paulie
12-07-2013, 02:32 PM
I did 23andMe when they first started and family finder. Nothing fruitful.

One thing having a rare haplotype is it makes it easier to spot in a search. Those AMH it's such a hardship having thousands of matches instead of a handful of close ones. :)

Rathna
12-07-2013, 03:12 PM
I did 23andMe when they first started and family finder. Nothing fruitful.

One thing having a rare haplotype is it makes it easier to spot in a search. Those AMH it's such a hardship having thousands of matches instead of a handful of close ones. :)

But amongst the haplotypes you indicated above only Savard and Chamberlaine (beyond Hooks) are close to you.

As to 23andMe if you found someone close to you for at least 1 or 2 % (or better more) we can find the desired relatives.

Paulie
12-07-2013, 03:15 PM
Ah sorry! It's not Geno2 but Chromo2 from EA/BrittonDNA that I'm sharing my results from. Is the chip plate equivalent between the two companies?

Rathna
12-07-2013, 09:52 PM
Ah sorry! It's not Geno2 but Chromo2 from EA/BrittonDNA that I'm sharing my results from. Is the chip plate equivalent between the two companies?

I have done Chromo2 but only for the 15k Y SNPs (but I haven't received the result yet, and after more than two months that my kit arrived in the lab). It is important for me for knowing the genealogy of R-Z2105*. I wasn't interested in the other tests, having done 23andMe and the FMS.
I don't know what they find with their autosome, but through 23andMe you may compare your results with 500,000 people tested.
Now there is a problem at 23andMe for the medical results, but the genealogical ones remain unchanged. I think that soon also the medical ones will be released again. Anyway you get the raw data.