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View Full Version : FTDNA's new J-M172 SNP Pack ignores subclades of L25 and M67 ?



lgmayka
09-12-2015, 02:45 AM
It appears that FTDNA's new J-M172 SNP Pack does not test any SNP downstream from J-L25 (http://yfull.com/tree/J-L25/); nor does it test any SNP downstream from J-M67 (http://yfull.com/tree/J-M67/) except the two top-level ones, Z467 and Z7671. Is that correct? If so, why? Is FTDNA planning to offer more specific SNP packs for L25 and M67 ?

Note that the new SNP pack is not advertised to anyone classified within J-L25; and although an FTDNA customer classified as J-M67 is shown the SNP pack advertisement, the only SNP presented in purple (i.e., tested in the pack) is Z467.

psaglav
03-04-2016, 08:33 AM
I just got my father's results for YDNA 67 markers and he's J-M172. Where do I go from here? Do I get extra packs to test?

I'm VERY new to yDNA and this was the only topic I could find on the forum.

Agamemnon
03-04-2016, 02:06 PM
I just got my father's results for YDNA 67 markers and he's J-M172. Where do I go from here? Do I get extra packs to test?

I'm VERY new to yDNA and this was the only topic I could find on the forum.

You should join the J2-M172 (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/j2-m172/about/background) project, that would give you a clear idea of which branch (and possibly even which subclade) of J2 your father carries. All you'll have to do in turn is to select specific SNPs corresponding with the cluster your father's sample has been assigned to.

J Man
03-04-2016, 02:23 PM
I just got my father's results for YDNA 67 markers and he's J-M172. Where do I go from here? Do I get extra packs to test?

I'm VERY new to yDNA and this was the only topic I could find on the forum.

Cool! Which ethnic group does your father come from along his direct paternal line?

psaglav
03-04-2016, 04:02 PM
Cool! Which ethnic group does your father come from along his direct paternal line?

He's supposed to be from my Circassian side, the ones who came over from Russia BUT I'm not sure about anything anymore because the more I'm researching family history the more confusing it gets!

I went to the census office and they didn't show us our family records, said we need a court order. There's a lot of changes of names and so forth. I'm a bit burnt out, really.

psaglav
03-04-2016, 04:17 PM
I'll get back to you about the project, Agammemnon. I did join the project on FTDNA and I'll tell you how they classified my dad's results but for some reason the group page doesn't respond at the moment.

psaglav
03-04-2016, 04:35 PM
OK, for some reason nothing on FTDNA is responding. Off the top of my head, I do remember that they've put my dad's kit together with some others which are predicted M92.

Once I can access the pages again, I'll give more information. This whole grouping and sub grouping and SUB SUB grouping of ydna is most confusing, however.

psaglav
03-04-2016, 04:48 PM
OK, this is what it says:

J2a PF4610>L26>PF5087>PF5116>Z2227>L558>M67>Z500>M92>? BigY useful for Y67+ kits (bigY is around $500? so not anytime soon!)

and if this means anything?

460977 Russian Federation J-M172 12 22 15 10 14-16 11 14 11 13 11 30 15 9-9-9 11 11 27 14 21 31 12-12-16-16-16-17 12 10 19-22 15 13 19 16 35-37-38 11 9 11 7 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 9 0 17-17 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 22 15 12 11 13 12 12 12 11

Agamemnon
03-04-2016, 05:16 PM
As far as the admins can tell, your father's branch is J2a-M92 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M92/), one of the main sub-branches of M67. M92 is relatively common around the Transcaucasus, Southwest Caucasus (and therefore NE Turkey), the Eastern Mediterranean (it even has a Jewish subclade, L556) and Italy. Considering the fact that M92's TMRCA is about ~8000 years old it's not exactly informative by itself (it's about as informative as finding out you're J1-P58 or R1a-M198). My ex's father is J2a-M92 as well, and he's Pontic Greek originally (just an example to highlight how common and widespread M92 is).

While a BigY test is always informative, I think the best course of action would be to wait for a M67 or M92 SNP pack to come out... Unfortunately, it seems the current M172 SNP pack doesn't cover any SNPs downstream from M67 (like M92 for example). ChrisR could come in helpful here.

psaglav
03-04-2016, 05:48 PM
As far as the admins can tell, your father's branch is J2a-M92 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M92/), one of the main sub-branches of M67. M92 is relatively common around the Transcaucasus, Southwest Caucasus (and therefore NE Turkey), the Eastern Mediterranean (it even has a Jewish subclade, L556) and Italy. Considering the fact that M92's TMRCA is about ~8000 years old it's not exactly informative by itself (it's about as informative as finding out you're J1-P58 or R1a-M198). My ex's father is J2a-M92 as well, and he's Pontic Greek originally (just an example to highlight how common and widespread M92 is).

While a BigY test is always informative, I think the best course of action would be to wait for a M67 or M92 SNP pack to come out... Unfortunately, it seems the current M172 SNP pack doesn't cover any SNPs downstream from M67 (like M92 for example). ChrisR could come in helpful here.

I think there might be, actually. I just purchased M92 SNP pack. it was around $30.

Did I do alright or did I make a mistake? :)

Agamemnon
03-04-2016, 06:09 PM
I think there might be, actually. I just purchased M92 SNP pack. it was around $30.

Did I do alright or did I make a mistake? :)

I didn't even know there was a M92 SNP pack available, if so your purchase is a good choice IMO... If you're negative for all the SNPs under M92 though, you might really have to consider getting the BigY test.

lgmayka
03-09-2016, 04:46 AM
I just purchased M92 SNP pack. it was around $30.
There is no SNP pack for $30. Perhaps you simply purchased the individual M92 SNP test, for $39?

You might want to call FTDNA (1.713.868.1438) to upgrade to the J-M67&L24 SNP Pack, for $119.

psaglav
03-09-2016, 07:25 AM
There is no SNP pack for $30. Perhaps you simply purchased the individual M92 SNP test, for $39?

You might want to call FTDNA (1.713.868.1438) to upgrade to the J-M67&L24 SNP Pack, for $119.

Ah yes, that's right. I only purchased the M92 thingie, I didn't mean a whole pack but I'm new with the terms.

Ftdna currently only offers me the whole M172 SNP pack but I thought since the predicted is M92, I could get away with just that. :)

Why L24?

psaglav
03-09-2016, 07:31 AM
The HG predictor tool too gives Z500 with a fitness score of 70% and probability of 100%. The guy who made it told me the calculator can't go below Z500 in the tree as it is, so M92 looks very probable indeed. I guess I could go below 92 later on. I thought if I got the M92 positive, I would have shortcutted through the seemingly unnecessary steps. Or no?

lgmayka
03-09-2016, 10:15 AM
I thought if I got the M92 positive, I would have shortcutted through the seemingly unnecessary steps.
The M92 SNP test is itself an unnecessary step, because it is included in the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack. If you can, call FTDNA (1.713.868.1438) to upgrade your order to the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack for $119. (There is no way or discount to order only the M67 part of the pack.) The SNP pack tests over 130 SNPs, including M92 and several downstream from (more specific than) M92. If the phone rep tells you that you "don't meet the requirements," just say that project administrators have predicted you to be M67+ .

If you can't call (because you are overseas), you can use FTDNA's Contact Form (https://www.familytreedna.com/contact.aspx) (Change Order, then Billing/Change Order). Ask for an invoice email to pay the price difference.

psaglav
03-09-2016, 11:18 AM
The M92 SNP test is itself an unnecessary step, because it is included in the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack. If you can, call FTDNA (1.713.868.1438) to upgrade your order to the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack for $119. (There is no way or discount to order only the M67 part of the pack.) The SNP pack tests over 130 SNPs, including M92 and several downstream from (more specific than) M92. If the phone rep tells you that you "don't meet the requirements," just say that project administrators have predicted you to be M67+ .

If you can't call (because you are overseas), you can use FTDNA's Contact Form (https://www.familytreedna.com/contact.aspx) (Change Order, then Billing/Change Order). Ask for an invoice email to pay the price difference.

Thanks a lot! Will do that.

psaglav
03-21-2016, 01:18 PM
The M92 SNP test is itself an unnecessary step, because it is included in the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack. If you can, call FTDNA (1.713.868.1438) to upgrade your order to the J2-M67&L24 SNP Pack for $119. (There is no way or discount to order only the M67 part of the pack.) The SNP pack tests over 130 SNPs, including M92 and several downstream from (more specific than) M92. If the phone rep tells you that you "don't meet the requirements," just say that project administrators have predicted you to be M67+ .


Thanks again, Igmayka. They've updated my order and it'll be back sometime in April-May, it says. I'll post here.

J Man
04-23-2016, 05:24 PM
Thanks again, Igmayka. They've updated my order and it'll be back sometime in April-May, it says. I'll post here.

J2a-M92 certainly is present in the Caucasus. I know that it is present in Georgians for sure and the Chechen teip (clan/tribe) of Arganoy also so far seems to be dominated by J2a-M92.

psaglav
04-25-2016, 12:43 PM
J2a-M92 certainly is present in the Caucasus. I know that it is present in Georgians for sure and the Chechen teip (clan/tribe) of Arganoy also so far seems to be dominated by J2a-M92.

Hi JMan,

What about these specific terminal SNPs? (you can see in my info) The J172 project manager had told me that this seems to be a separate cluster so far and it'd be great if my dad did the BigY.

J Man
04-25-2016, 07:33 PM
Hi JMan,

What about these specific terminal SNPs? (you can see in my info) The J172 project manager had told me that this seems to be a separate cluster so far and it'd be great if my dad did the BigY.

Yes Big Y for your dad would be great!