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Tsakhur
09-20-2015, 02:46 AM
Do Southeast Asians have ancient West Eurasian ancestry? I mean like from interaction with South Asia or European trading and colonialism?

Tsakhur
09-20-2015, 03:34 AM
Bump.

tamilgangster
09-20-2015, 04:42 AM
West indonesians and malay populaions have "south asian" specific caucasoid percentages of 5-10 percent, implying obvious mixture with south asian populations through trade chola conquest etc. Burmese populations such as mon also have it.

http://www.harappadna.org/2012/03/pan-asian-ref3-k11-admixture/

Tsakhur
09-20-2015, 05:48 AM
West indonesians and malay populaions have "south asian" specific caucasoid percentages of 5-10 percent, implying obvious mixture with south asian populations through trade chola conquest etc. Burmese populations such as mon also have it.

http://www.harappadna.org/2012/03/pan-asian-ref3-k11-admixture/

so west indonesians and malays are around 5-10% caucasoid/west eurasian ancestry on average? Do thais, cambodians and filipinos also have ancient West Eurasian ancestry? Are most of the Caucasoid ancestry in Southeast Asians come from trading and interaction with Chola and other Indian empires or European colonialism?

motherland
09-20-2015, 11:31 AM
From P Kusuma et al., 2015 Western Eurasian genetic influences in the Indonesian archipelago (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215006485)

Used the same data from http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/16/191

gihanga.rwanda
09-20-2015, 07:49 PM
so west indonesians and malays are around 5-10% caucasoid/west eurasian ancestry on average? Do thais, cambodians and filipinos also have ancient West Eurasian ancestry? Are most of the Caucasoid ancestry in Southeast Asians come from trading and interaction with Chola and other Indian empires or European colonialism?

I wouldn't say that. Some SE Asians, particularly Muslims such as the Malay, possess relatively minor South Asian ancestry, which would amount to Western Eurasian, ANE, Basal Eurasian, and ASI admixture.

tamilgangster
09-20-2015, 08:19 PM
so west indonesians and malays are around 5-10% caucasoid/west eurasian ancestry on average? Do thais, cambodians and filipinos also have ancient West Eurasian ancestry? Are most of the Caucasoid ancestry in Southeast Asians come from trading and interaction with Chola and other Indian empires or European colonialism?

Filipinos have some spanish ancestry, but lack south or west asian related ancestry. West Asian ancestry does exist among muslim commonities in SE asia. THere are malays who have roots in arab countries,. Most of the west eurasian ancestry in SE asia(with the exception of filipinos) comes predates colonialism and comes from south asia, this is true for thailand burma, cambodia, indonesia and malaysia. In these countries though there ar communities of eurasian(who have european blood) but they form a distinct elite. South asian ancestry exists though among the mainstream population.(especially in burma and west indonesia, and the malay peninsula) But from the chart on harappa DNA I showed the west eurasian ancestry is a type specific to south asia. WIth the onge component, its hard to determine wheater its due to south asian admixture or indigenous type. In

Tsakhur
09-20-2015, 09:45 PM
Filipinos have some spanish ancestry, but lack south or west asian related ancestry. West Asian ancestry does exist among muslim commonities in SE asia. THere are malays who have roots in arab countries,. Most of the west eurasian ancestry in SE asia(with the exception of filipinos) comes predates colonialism and comes from south asia, this is true for thailand burma, cambodia, indonesia and malaysia. In these countries though there ar communities of eurasian(who have european blood) but they form a distinct elite. South asian ancestry exists though among the mainstream population.(especially in burma and west indonesia, and the malay peninsula) But from the chart on harappa DNA I showed the west eurasian ancestry is a type specific to south asia. WIth the onge component, its hard to determine wheater its due to south asian admixture or indigenous type. In

so on average SE Asians are what percentage in terms of West Eurasian vs East Eurasian ancestry?

gihanga.rwanda
09-20-2015, 11:38 PM
Filipinos have some spanish ancestry, but lack south or west asian related ancestry. West Asian ancestry does exist among muslim commonities in SE asia. THere are malays who have roots in arab countries,. Most of the west eurasian ancestry in SE asia(with the exception of filipinos) comes predates colonialism and comes from south asia, this is true for thailand burma, cambodia, indonesia and malaysia. In these countries though there ar communities of eurasian(who have european blood) but they form a distinct elite. South asian ancestry exists though among the mainstream population.(especially in burma and west indonesia, and the malay peninsula) But from the chart on harappa DNA I showed the west eurasian ancestry is a type specific to south asia. WIth the onge component, its hard to determine wheater its due to south asian admixture or indigenous type. In

Spanish ancestry in the Philippines is not widespread and limited to certain classes of people.

tamilgangster
09-20-2015, 11:52 PM
Spanish ancestry in the Philippines is not widespread and limited to certain classes of people.

Yes im fully aware of that, but I was talking about spanish ancestry in respect to west eurasian ancestry, that its the most dominant type of west eurasian ancestry present

Tsakhur
10-07-2015, 10:05 PM
Filipinos have some spanish ancestry, but lack south or west asian related ancestry. West Asian ancestry does exist among muslim commonities in SE asia. THere are malays who have roots in arab countries,. Most of the west eurasian ancestry in SE asia(with the exception of filipinos) comes predates colonialism and comes from south asia, this is true for thailand burma, cambodia, indonesia and malaysia. In these countries though there ar communities of eurasian(who have european blood) but they form a distinct elite. South asian ancestry exists though among the mainstream population.(especially in burma and west indonesia, and the malay peninsula) But from the chart on harappa DNA I showed the west eurasian ancestry is a type specific to south asia. WIth the onge component, its hard to determine wheater its due to south asian admixture or indigenous type. In

thank you very much so if i want to find the west eurasian ancestry in southeast asians according to this harappa spreadsheet is by adding South Asian+SW Asian+European?

Greenstone
10-11-2015, 03:21 AM
It would have to come from certain South Asian and Middle Eastern forays into the region, along with European colonizer influence.

tamilgangster
10-11-2015, 06:34 PM
thank you very much so if i want to find the west eurasian ancestry in southeast asians according to this harappa spreadsheet is by adding South Asian+SW Asian+European?

yes kind of, but these components also have basal eurasian ANE WHG etc

Jesse1961
12-10-2015, 11:54 AM
I am 100% SE asian (filipino) according to FTDNA's MyOrigins but i have many small segment matches (5cM to 6cM) at gedmatch with non-SE asians. In fact, the smaller the segment match is, the more non-SE asian matches I have. I am inclined to believe many of these matches are true because of oral family story that our paternal forefathers were descendants of Spaniards who settled down in our country during colonial times. Eurogenes K13 test shows 1.26% Baltic while Deodecad V3 gives me 2.39% East European.

Tsakhur
04-09-2016, 08:05 PM
Here are the results of an Indonesian friend who I know. He seem a like mix between Southeast Asian and South Asian in certain calculators. He seem to have significant West Eurasian admix.

Eurogenes K15: You can see the pretty high South Asian, followed by East Euro, North Sea, East Med, West Med and Baltic. I think it show significant West Eurasian ancestry.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Southeast_Asian 66.18
2 South_Asian 22.70
3 Oceanian 3.52
4 Eastern_Euro 2.90
5 North_Sea 1.46
6 East_Med 1.19
7 West_Med 1.14
8 Baltic 0.90


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Malay @ 10.863
2 Cambodian @ 14.558
3 Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 15.081
4 Lahu @ 27.135
5 Vietnamese @ 28.861
6 Yizu @ 31.378
7 Miaozu @ 31.671
8 Tujia @ 32.078
9 Naxi @ 32.217
10 Dai @ 32.501
165 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Malay +50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 9.471
2 50% Cambodian +50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 10.727
3 50% Malay +50% Malay @ 10.863
4 50% Cambodian +50% Malay @ 12.652
5 50% Cambodian +50% Cambodian @ 14.558
6 50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese +50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 15.081
7 50% Austroasiatic_Ho +50% Dai @ 15.803
8 50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese +50% Vietnamese @ 17.224
9 50% Austroasiatic_Ho +50% Vietnamese @ 17.694
10 50% Lahu +50% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 17.695
13695 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Dai +25% Cambodian +25% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.090
2 50% Dai +25% Malay +25% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.103
3 50% Dai +25% Cambodian +25% North_Kannadi @ 4.143
4 50% Dai +25% Cambodian +25% Kol @ 4.195
5 50% Dai +25% Malay +25% North_Kannadi @ 4.270
6 50% Dai +25% Kol +25% Malay @ 4.281
7 50% Dai +25% Chenchu +25% Malay @ 4.325
8 50% Dai +25% Cambodian +25% Dusadh @ 4.347
9 50% Dai +25% Dusadh +25% Malay @ 4.428
10 50% Dai +25% Cambodian +25% Chenchu @ 4.443
317221 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.090
2 Dai + Dai + Malay + Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.103
3 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + North_Kannadi @ 4.143
4 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + Kol @ 4.195
5 Dai + Dai + Malay + North_Kannadi @ 4.270
6 Dai + Dai + Kol + Malay @ 4.281
7 Chenchu + Dai + Dai + Malay @ 4.325
8 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + Dusadh @ 4.347
9 Dai + Dai + Dusadh + Malay @ 4.428
10 Cambodian + Chenchu + Dai + Dai @ 4.443
11 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + Kanjar @ 4.472
12 Dai + Dai + Kanjar + Malay @ 4.495
13 Austroasiatic_Ho + Cambodian + Dai + Malay @ 4.627
14 Cambodian + Chamar + Dai + Dai @ 4.674
15 Austroasiatic_Ho + Cambodian + Cambodian + Dai @ 4.683
16 Cambodian + Dai + Uttar_Pradesh + Vietnamese @ 4.688
17 Dai + Dai + Dharkar + Malay @ 4.707
18 Cambodian + Dai + Dai + Dharkar @ 4.743
19 Bangladeshi + Dai + Dai + Malay @ 4.782
20 Cambodian + Dai + North_Kannadi + Vietnamese @ 4.827


Dodecad K12b: You can see the high South Asian followed by Gedrosia, Caucasian and North European.
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Southeast_Asian 62.64
2 South_Asian 20.76
3 East_Asian 6.35
4 Gedrosia 5.62
5 Caucasus 1.96
6 North_European 1.6
7 Siberian 0.64
8 East_African 0.26
9 Sub_Saharan 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 PANIYA (Behar) 7.35
2 MAS30 (SGVP) 21.82
3 Cambodians (HGDP) 23
4 Lahu (HGDP) 25.98
5 KHV30 (1000Genomes) 28.53
6 CDX30 (1000Genomes) 31.27
7 Dai (HGDP) 31.68
8 Khasi (Chaubey) 32.13
9 Burmanese (Chaubey) 40.56
10 Garo (Chaubey) 43.66
11 Miaozu (HGDP) 50.74
12 CHS30 (SGVP) 50.97
13 She (HGDP) 53.24
14 BONDA (Chaubey) 54.37
15 Juang (Chaubey) 54.71
16 Han (HGDP) 57.66
17 Tujia (HGDP) 61.45
18 Kharia (Chaubey) 62.23
19 CHD30 (Metspalu) 62.86
20 Savara (Chaubey) 64.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.6% Cambodians (HGDP) + 41.4% Khasi (Chaubey) @ 5.06
2 59.9% MAS30 (SGVP) + 40.1% Khasi (Chaubey) @ 5.23
3 78.9% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.1% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 5.33
4 77.5% MAS30 (SGVP) + 22.5% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 5.47
5 78.4% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.6% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 5.49
6 78.3% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.7% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh (Metspalu) @ 5.5
7 78.7% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.3% Indian (Dodecad) @ 5.52
8 78.5% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.5% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 5.58
9 79% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 5.6
10 78.8% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.2% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 5.69
11 78.5% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21.5% Kshatriya (Metspalu) @ 5.71
12 79% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21% Dharkars (Metspalu) @ 5.74
13 79% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21% INS30 (SGVP) @ 5.76
14 79% MAS30 (SGVP) + 21% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 5.88
15 79.2% MAS30 (SGVP) + 20.8% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 5.9
16 79.4% MAS30 (SGVP) + 20.6% Chenchus (Metspalu) @ 5.96
17 79.3% MAS30 (SGVP) + 20.7% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 5.99
18 79.3% MAS30 (SGVP) + 20.7% Dusadh (Metspalu) @ 6.08
19 95.6% PANIYA (Behar) + 4.4% Brahui (HGDP) @ 6.11
20 79.4% MAS30 (SGVP) + 20.6% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 6.14

Dante
04-09-2016, 09:32 PM
so west indonesians and malays are around 5-10% caucasoid/west eurasian ancestry on average? Do thais, cambodians and filipinos also have ancient West Eurasian ancestry? Are most of the Caucasoid ancestry in Southeast Asians come from trading and interaction with Chola and other Indian empires or European colonialism?

My great-great and so forth grandfather born 1600s Netherlands belonged to the Dutch East India Trading Company. In doing so he lived in a number of southeast Asian countries. His seven children were indeed mix blooded [of two different mothers from different countries] who lived and married in Batavia [modernday Jakarta]. He wasn't the only such individual to be moved about through colonization / trading nor were his children the only resulting mixed that intermarried among the local cultures.

So I would take it the West Eurasian ancestry of modern southeast asian populations - e.g. the populations you get around major cities, settlements, etc. - are mostly due to colonization. Or modern population movement.

I'd be far more curious about [modern] West Eurasian DNA in some remote culture / tribe long before wondering just "where" the West Eurasian DNA taken from these major population areas / groups happened to come from. The major population centers are easily explained through historical research by majority.

There are, after all, a number of asian groups well known for [ancient] Eurasian DNA influx but little modern DNA introduction.

ThirdTerm
04-09-2016, 10:06 PM
The frequency of R1a in the Ma’anyan people in Indonesia is around 1%, according to the recent study by Kutuma et al. (2015). R1a could have been introduced by Eurasians (Indo-Europeans) or Dutch settlers. But R* is also found among 15% of the Bajo people and it's plausible that both R1a and R* are indigenous to Indonesia. Some Bajo people are natural blondes.



Based on analysis of 96 Y chromosome binary markers (Additional file 1: Table S1), the majority of men in the Ma’anyan, Lebbo’ and Bajo carry haplogroups previously found in Southeast Asia, particularly C*, K*, and O* (Table 1). Only a few individuals carry Y chromosomes belonging to Western Eurasian haplogroups: R* (M207) [40,41] was found in four Bajo individuals, R1a (M17) [42,43] was found in one Ma’anyan individual, while the western Eurasian haplogroups L1a (M76) and T1a (M70) [44,45] were found in one and two Bajo individuals, respectively. Indian haplogroup R*, which includes R1a, has previously been identified in Bali, Java, Borneo, and Mandar (Additional file 2: Table S2), and thus could conceivably have transited through Indonesia (as opposed to a direct connection), but T1a and L1a have not been identified to date in any Indonesian population.
http://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12864-015-1394-7

Tsakhur
11-06-2016, 07:19 AM
Updated:

I am not quite sure now whether the "South Asian" is really South Asian admixture or just Ancestral South Indian (best represented for now by Onge although they are still very far genetically). If it is indeed actual South Asian ancestry, there might be some West Eurasian affinities carried in the form of Iran Neolithic through the South Asian component.

Now the South Asian gene flow into Southeast Asians might be genuine which leads to an indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry as I found new calculator averages that suggest indirect West Eurasian-affinity in Southeast Asians likely through interactions with South Indians:

In Iran N. K6, Cambodians score 7% West Eurasian (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8166-Updated-Neolithic-Iranian-Calculator&p=176870&viewfull=1#post176870): Iran N+ Natufian while in ANE K6, they score 6.3% West Eurasian (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13O_IYAv4SE8jLO9FKOQ5RiHf4vQeOQbSRWa-KsN7wO4/edit#gid=1957523915)(ANE+Natufian, I think the Iran N/Iran-N like is mostly represented by ANE, Natufian-
Most West Eurasian component in Cambodians being Iran Neolithic/Iran N-like make sense as South Indians are a mix of Iran Neolithic/Iran Neo-like+ASI with probably some Steppe/Steppe-like admix as well. Some of the ASI in Cambodians also might come from South Indian admix besides being indigenous to SE Asia.

Here are the full spreadsheets for both calcs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PWAi-sPU3KniSxgJg-L7CjcXK2K7CXvIrFr8_F-ZhOE/edit#gid=1108042089

*Unfortunately Cambodians are the only SE Asian samples here in the calculators and spreadsheets, but I think if Cambodians really have minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry through South Asian/Indian admixture, other Southeast Asians like Filipinos, Burmese, Indonesians, Malays and Thais should have minor West Eurasian admix as well.

Tsakhur
11-06-2016, 07:23 AM
CHG K8 test is another calculator that suggests indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Southeast Asians through interactions with South Asia.

CHG K8 is another calculator that I thing seems to suggest West Eurasian affinity in Southeast Asians.
Here are the averages:

8 {Quantity of components}
ENF
WHG
W African
CHG
E Asian
Papuan
EHG
San

Burmese 0,000868563 0,00033975 0,010334188 0,089796188 0,834176813 0,046326938 0,016234875 0,0019225
Cambodian 0,0010451 0,0049218 0,0095639 0,0720445 0,8582224 0,0523599 0,0002759 0,0015665
Malay 0,002970656 0,004263844 0,008037719 0,077564688 0,8310625 0,071233656 0,002313188 0,002553594
Thai 0,00816975 0,005150125 0,009567 0,087156875 0,84033575 0,046822875 0,0016045 0,0011935
Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 0,04469 0,011423 0,020013 0,300255 0,487295 0,061066 0,075249 0,00001
Tibeto-Burman_Garo 0,00001 0,00094 0,014129 0,089719 0,829712 0,053662 0,006864 0,0049635
Lahu 0,0003365 0,0002435 0,001121125 0,010855875 0,9582075 0,02778375 0,00001 0,001441875
Dai 0,0001 0,0006376 0,0001 0,0030293 0,9722481 0,0240395 0,00001 0,00001
Kinh_Vietnam 0,00001 0,003806375 0,000841875 0,0155165 0,957425 0,021415125 0,000144375 0,000841

It seems most of the West Eurasian ancestry in most Southeast Asians seem to be mostly represent in the component of CHG around 7-9% based on this calculator. The group with most West Eurasian admix seems to be Garo, Burmese and Thai which makes sense since due to geography: they seem to be most Western Southeast Asian groups in terms of location. It is likely that most of this West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Thais, Burmese, Cambodians, Malays, etc. comes from hundreds probably thousands of years of interaction including intermixing/intermarriage with South Asians.

Regarding "EHG", it so negligible that it might be just noise. If the "EHG" is genuine, it might actually be very little ANE/ANE-like affinity which I don't know if "ANE" can be consider Western Eurasian.

I think the West Eurasian ancestry in the form CHG in SE Asians is authentic as can be seen in this Georgian and Abkhasian average (Im only using them to exhibit that CHG is West Eurasian):

Georgian 0,394672 0,073890071 0,00001 0,473847786 0,007503714 0,004987643 0,040846429 0,004242286
Abkhasian 0,370585714 0,074824786 0,001636143 0,463920071 0,025709929 0,005184143 0,0568655 0,001274071

But the CHG might have some Eastern Eurasian-affinity and not pristine West Eurasian component. Because in this same calculator Australian Aborigines get almost 3% CHG which confuses me where they get it from. Although I recently read of this possible migration from India to Australia. (http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/news/2013/01/aboriginal-genes-suggest-indian-migration/) The question is how did Indians migrate there?

Australian 0,00001 0,00001 0,001986667 0,029656333 0,113956667 0,844644 0,0023756670,007360667

**I got the Southeast Asians from here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6073-K8-CHG-Test-Results&p=129076&viewfull=1#post129076

Tsakhur
11-08-2016, 10:49 PM
Regarding CHG K8, I forget to comment on the Lahu, Dai and Kinh populations. If you can see it seem have Lahu and Kinh have very tiny CHG almost negligible levels which might even be noise while the Dai seem to completely lack CHG. So it seems these populations have negligible or lack West Eurasian ancestry altogether. I also have to remark that Lahu and Dai are minority groups who lives in the remote mountainous areas of Northern Southeast Asia and Southern China while Kinh are the predominant ethnicity of Vietnam and parts of Southern China.

The reason I also put these three above populations are to show that they seem to lack CHG which imply that they also don't have genuine South Asian gene flow which also introduce indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry unlike most other Southeast Asian populations like Burmese, Malay, Cambodian, Thai, etc.

The CHG in SE Asians in CHG K8 seems to come from interaction with South Asians. This might be explain by the fact the three populations live in more remote geographical terrain (for the first two populaton) and farther away from India (for the Kinh) than the other Southeast Asians who live in lowland and coastal areas which are easier for South Asian and Arab traders (in the case of Malays) to reach.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 02:44 AM
Regarding CHG K8, I forget to comment on the Lahu, Dai and Kinh populations. If you can see it seem have Lahu and Kinh have very tiny CHG almost negligible levels which might even be noise while the Dai seem to completely lack CHG. So it seems these populations have negligible or lack West Eurasian ancestry altogether. I also have to remark that Lahu and Dai are minority groups who lives in the remote mountainous areas of Northern Southeast Asia and Southern China while Kinh are the predominant ethnicity of Vietnam and parts of Southern China.

The reason I also put these three above populations are to show that they seem to lack CHG which imply that they also don't have genuine South Asian ancestry unlike most other Southeast Asian populations like Burmese, Malay, Cambodian, Thai, etc.
The CHG in SE Asians in CHG K8 seems to come from interaction with South Asians. This might be explain by the fact the three populations live in more remote geographical terrain (for the first two populaton) and farther away from India (for the Kinh) than the other Southeast Asians who live in lowland and coastal areas which are easier for South Asian and Arab traders (in the case of Malays) to reach.

To respond to your question in two fold, I expect Southeast Asians to have interacted with South Asians. If South Indians had influence on Australian Aboriginal genetics, I'm sure they contributed to southeast Asians and therefore to Polynesians to a minor extent.

On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.

My recently posted Dodecad World9 results (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2469-Dodecad-World9-results-(Gedmatch)&p=196107&viewfull=1#post196107) are a good example, especially for my sister.

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 03:25 AM
To respond to your question in two fold, I expect Southeast Asians to have interacted with South Asians. If South Indians had influence on Australian Aboriginal genetics, I'm sure they contributed to southeast Asians and therefore to Polynesians to a minor extent.

On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.

My recently posted Dodecad World9 results (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2469-Dodecad-World9-results-(Gedmatch)&p=196107&viewfull=1#post196107) are a good example, especially for my sister.

Hmm you and your sister do indeed do have South Asian component which the average European don't seem to score any. In your case, the South Asian might be actual South Asian or just ASI admixture.

I should also explain that initially, I am not quite sure about the "South Asian" component. There are two situations here; the first one that it is "South Asian" is actual South Asian ancestry while the second situation is that "South Asian" is not "Indian" admixture at all but Ancestral South Indian or ASI (best represented for now by Onge although they are still very far genetically). If it is indeed the first situation which is actual South Asian ancestry, there might be indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry carried in the form of Iran Neolithic through the South Asian component as well. This is because that South Indians, who presumably are the population that introduce South Asian admixture into SE Asia, can be modeled as around 40-50%ish Iran Neolithic (which is a West Eurasian component)+ASI (best represented by Onge for now).

Now I have evidence that suggest that the first situation in that the "South Asian" admixture in SE Asian populations are genuine. The evidences are the calculator averages that suggest actual "South Asian" gene flow which is seen through the indirect minor West Eurasian components SE Asian populations score in some calculators like ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and CHG K8, etc.

Here are the pages that Cambodians score score some minor indirect West Eurasian in ANE K6 and Iranian Neolithic K6. (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)

Unfortunately Cambodians are the only SE Asian populations in the spreadsheet but but if Cambodians really have minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry through South Asian/Indian admixture, other Southeast Asians like Filipinos, Burmese, Indonesians, Malays and Thais should have minor West Eurasian admix as well.

Another calculator that suggest that suggest indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Southeast Asians is CHG K8. The West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like component in this case is "CHG" (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196167&viewfull=1#post196167)which is seen in minor but likely genuine amounts in many SE Asian populations.


On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.

I agree it is hard to say whether it is due to minor Polynesian or coincidence from early European migration . Can you elaborate on the Early European migration in this case? The "South Asian" might also just be ASI.

Pardon me for such a lengthy post. It is difficult to me to write this post into words as this is a rather complicated subject.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 07:43 AM
Hmm you and your sister do indeed do have South Asian component which the average European don't seem to score any. In your case, the South Asian might be actual South Asian or just ASI admixture.

I should also explain that initially, I am not quite sure about the "South Asian" component. There are two situations here; the first one that it is "South Asian" is actual South Asian ancestry while the second situation is that "South Asian" is not "Indian" admixture at all but Ancestral South Indian or ASI (best represented for now by Onge although they are still very far genetically). If it is indeed the first situation which is actual South Asian ancestry, there might be indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry carried in the form of Iran Neolithic through the South Asian component as well. This is because that South Indians, who presumably are the population that introduce South Asian admixture into SE Asia, can be modeled as around 40-50%ish Iran Neolithic (which is a West Eurasian component)+ASI (best represented by Onge for now).

Now I have evidence that suggest that the first situation in that the "South Asian" admixture in SE Asian populations are genuine. The evidences are the calculator averages that suggest actual "South Asian" gene flow which is seen through the indirect minor West Eurasian components SE Asian populations score in some calculators like ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and CHG K8, etc.

Here are the pages that Cambodians score score some minor indirect West Eurasian in ANE K6 and Iranian Neolithic K6. (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)

Unfortunately Cambodians are the only SE Asian populations in the spreadsheet but but if Cambodians really have minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry through South Asian/Indian admixture, other Southeast Asians like Filipinos, Burmese, Indonesians, Malays and Thais should have minor West Eurasian admix as well.

Another calculator that suggest that suggest indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Southeast Asians is CHG K8. The West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like component in this case is "CHG" (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196167&viewfull=1#post196167)which is seen in minor but likely genuine amounts in many SE Asian populations.



I agree it is hard to say whether it is due to minor Polynesian or coincidence from early European migration . Can you elaborate on the Early European migration in this case? The "South Asian" might also just be ASI.

Pardon me for such a lengthy post. It is difficult to me to write this post into words as this is a rather complicated subject.

Thanks for the detailed reply. As you know some calculators use different reference populations for South Asian, which probably makes it harder to differentiate, as you've alluded to. I score Asia Minor on FTDNA with hints of it on various calculators. If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 08:01 AM
Thanks for the detailed reply. As you know some calculators use different reference populations for South Asian, which probably makes it harder to differentiate, as you've alluded to. I score Asia Minor on FTDNA with hints of it on various calculators. If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.

Yes I agree that many calculators use different reference populations for South Asian component which makes it hard to know the origin of such component. This why I like Kurd's ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 or Chad's CHG K8 because it does not use "South Asian" but separate into various West Eurasian components, Eastern non-African and ASI components.

I hope members like David/Generalissmo, Kurd, Chad and Ryukendo, etc become more interest in SE Asian genetics and investigate the mystery of the "South Asian" component and either its West Eurasian or ASI affinities.

For now, it seems a lot of members here don't seem to have much knowledge or interest regarding the SE Asian genetics.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 08:39 AM
Yes I agree that many calculators use different reference populations for South Asian component which makes it hard to know the origin of such component. This why I like Kurd's ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 or Chad's CHG K8 because it does not use "South Asian" but separate into various West Eurasian components, Eastern non-African and ASI components.

I hope members like David/Generalissmo, Kurd, Chad and Ryukendo, etc become more interest in SE Asian genetics and investigate the mystery of the "South Asian" component and either its West Eurasian or ASI affinities.

For now, it seems a lot of members here don't seem to have much knowledge or interest regarding the SE Asian genetics.

Agreed. I personally think SE Asian genetics are fascinating, especially with their link to Polynesians and their eventual migration end at Easter Island.

Just out of interest with regards to ASI results:

Ancient Eurasia K6

FTDNA - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.71
Sister - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.86
English average - 0.30
Croatian average - 1.00

This varies on calculators.

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 08:42 AM
If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.

You have "West Asian" ancestors as in Europeans have Early European Farmer/Anatolian Neolithic and Natufian ancestors who originally come from Southwest Asia and the Near East?

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 08:47 AM
Agreed. I personally think SE Asian genetics are fascinating, especially with their link to Polynesians and their eventual migration end at Easter Island.

Just out of interest with regards to ASI results:

Ancient Eurasia K6

FTDNA - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.71
Sister - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.86
English average - 0.30
Croatian average - 1.00

This varies on calculators.

Yes I agree that SE Asia genetics and their links to populations like Polynesians, Melanesians/Papuans and Aborigines are very astounding!! :D

Unfortunately, most people currently seem to be much much more interest in West Eurasian genetics and don't seem to have much knowledge on non-West Eurasian genetics. Even the majority of Asian members at Eastbound88, a forum for mostly Asian users, barely know anything regarding the genetics of SE Asia/East Asia.

Is interesting that even Croatian and English averages score tiny ASI on K6. It might also be noise or some Eastern Non-African/Eastern Non-African like affinity in some Europeans.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 09:32 AM
You have "West Asian" ancestors as in Europeans have Early European Farmer/Anatolian Neolithic and Natufian ancestors who originally come from Southwest Asia and the Near East?

I suspect I might have minor West Asian influence on my Croatian line, and not just the normal EEF migration for predominantly Western Europeans. Nothing I can prove anyway.

I agree with the noise aspect. Once again it's nothing that can be proven, and probably highlights the variability among Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised if I had a South Asian ancestor connected to my SE Asian line in some way. Throughout all that time it's hard to believe no mixing didn't occur, at least once.

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 10:24 AM
I suspect I might have minor West Asian influence on my Croatian line, and not just the normal EEF migration for predominantly Western Europeans. Nothing I can prove anyway.

I agree with the noise aspect. Once again it's nothing that can be proven, and probably highlights the variability among Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised if I had a South Asian ancestor connected to my SE Asian line in some way. Throughout all that time it's hard to believe no mixing didn't occur, at least once.

I agree it might even be something impossible to prove. Btw have you seen any gedmatch results of Maoris or any other Polynesians?

Would you say I move the content of this thread to the Oceania thread?

This is Eastbound88 (http://eastbound88.com/forum.php)which the majority of Asian members hardly know anything regarding the genetics of Southeast or East Asia. Here is the Anthropology and Genetic section (http://eastbound88.com/forumdisplay.php/94-Anthropology-and-Population-Genetics)of Eastbound88, as you can see it seem there are very few Southeast Asians who have taken Autosomal DNA tests, most of them being Filipinos and Vietnamese. It seem there are hardly any genetic experts there unlike here where they are plenty.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 10:44 AM
I agree it might even be something impossible to prove. Btw have you seen any gedmatch results of Maoris or any other Polynesians?

Would you say I move the content of this thread to the Oceania thread?

This is Eastbound88 (http://eastbound88.com/forum.php)which the majority of Asian members hardly know anything regarding the genetics of Southeast or East Asia. Here is the Anthropology and Genetic section (http://eastbound88.com/forumdisplay.php/94-Anthropology-and-Population-Genetics)of Eastbound88, as you can see it seem there are very few Southeast Asians who have taken Autosomal DNA tests, most of them being Filipinos and Vietnamese. It seem there are hardly any genetic experts there unlike here where they are plenty.

I've gone and shifted the whole thread to the Oceanian section.

This is a spreadsheet created by Kalani Mondoy, who is Hawaiian and does quite a bit of Polynesian DNA work (he has a blog). He's compiled GEDMatch results of various Oceanian peoples.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zmTzQVjZ4NCpY5l0mqNEmP_BbNQ623OwljjRuqA-kd8/edit#gid=1507683586

jortita
11-09-2016, 12:45 PM
Balkan Kiwi and Khuur, I am also quite interested in SEA Asia genetics and keen to know whether my ASI in Kurds K6 is actually from my SEA ancestry, Ahom. Some studies on Ahom people have shown that Ahom ancestry is at the most 50% East Asian and the rest is primarily austroasiatic leaning towards ASI. I have been trying to unsuccessfully get Ahom raw data

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 07:14 PM
Balkan Kiwi and Khuur, I am also quite interested in SEA Asia genetics and keen to know whether my ASI in Kurds K6 is actually from my SEA ancestry, Ahom. Some studies on Ahom people have shown that Ahom ancestry is at the most 50% East Asian and the rest is primarily austroasiatic leaning towards ASI. I have been trying to unsuccessfully get Ahom raw data


Hi Jortita! :) Can you post studies about the Ahom please? :amen: Do you know if Ahom have South Asian ancestry? If the Ahom have genuine "South Asian" which is not ASI/Ancestral South Indian (best represented for now by Onge, as Paniyas who score highest in ASI have considerable amounts of West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like affinities) which is gene flow from South Asian populations like Bengalis, Biharis, they should also possess some indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry as well.

Tsakhur
11-09-2016, 07:25 PM
I've gone and shifted the whole thread to the Oceanian section.

This is a spreadsheet created by Kalani Mondoy, who is Hawaiian and does quite a bit of Polynesian DNA work (he has a blog). He's compiled GEDMatch results of various Oceanian peoples.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zmTzQVjZ4NCpY5l0mqNEmP_BbNQ623OwljjRuqA-kd8/edit#gid=1507683586

Thank you very much! I think it's pretty hard to find Oceanian results. The spreadsheet seem to show only how much Polynesians score in terms of Oceanian/Australasian/Melanesian/Papuan component based on various calculators. Does he have full gedmatch results of Polynesians that show every component?

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 09:31 PM
Thank you very much! I think it's pretty hard to find Oceanian results. The spreadsheet seem to show only how much Polynesians score in terms of Oceanian/Australasian/Melanesian/Papuan component based on various calculators. Does he have full gedmatch results of Polynesians that show every component?

Yeah, unfortunately his main focus seems to be on the Oceanian components and not the ASI/South Asian components. I assume he can get their full results but you'd probably have to contact him and ask.

I'd be curious to see how much of either population Oceanian people would score.

BalkanKiwi
11-09-2016, 09:39 PM
I do have a few Oceanian results which I've run through the Ancient Eurasia K6. I wont share or include kit numbers for privacy reasons.

These are the Ancestral South Eurasian scores for various Oceanian people on the Ancient Eurasia K6.

Hawaiian - 13.12
Maori - 12.54
Tahitian - 11.78
Samoan - 10.06

jortita
11-10-2016, 01:28 AM
Khuur I will definitely post some studies, please note that Assam was not a part of India till 1826 when the Burmese handed over Assam to British India, Ahom monarchy of which my ancestors were part of in terms of being officers in the army, defeated the Mughal rulers 16 times. Assam's culture is not similar to the rest of South Asia. I will post more details over the coming weekend. Also Assam had its own Indo-European population that settled in Assam more than 1, 500 years back as per studies and inter-mixed with austro-asiatic, tibeto-burmese and tai-shan communities.

I wanted to share a couple of my results from Kurd's calculators, one being Ancient Eurasia K6 and the other DIY Pashtun K13


# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 28.42
2 East_Asian 27.14
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 23.35
4 Natufian 19.42
5 Sub_Saharan 1.08
6 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.59

My Pashtun K 13 results vs Reza's (Bengali from Sylhet in Bangladesh which is close to Assam)

Mine Reza
Pashtun 22.62% 13.57%
SE_European 1.21% 0.00%
Brunei 5.72% 0.00%
Burmese 8.97% 7.83%
NE_European 3.09% 0.00%
NW_European 3.17% 0.00%
Indian 37.39% 68.74%
SSA 0.37% 0.00%
Mongolian 7.92% 1.21%
Papuan 2.38% 0.00%
NE_Asian 1.49% 1.61%
Near_Eastern 2.28% 0.00%
Turkic 3.39% 7.03%

As is somewhat evident, I am more SE Asia inclined than Reza as well as more Tibeto-Mongoloid, even though on Ancient Eurasia K6 his East Asian is 23.10%

Reza
11-10-2016, 03:08 AM
Just to add to your post jortita, I have 2 other Sylheti samples for you (one my wife, and one a relative off 23andme):

Ancient Eurasia K6

Myself

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 32.87
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 25.36
3 East_Asian 23.39
4 Natufian 18.38

My wife

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 31.08
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 25.96
3 East_Asian 22.11
4 Natufian 20.02
5 Sub_Saharan 0.83

Sylheti M

1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 30.59
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 23.98
3 East_Asian 23.84
4 Natufian 21.58

NB the East Asian component is clearly capturing some of the ASI / S Indian component as populations such as Punjabis are scoring upto 10% E Asian.

Do you share with any other Assamese? Is there a population in Western Assam that is not mixed with the Ahoms? Or have they been assimilated into either a Bengali population, or on the spectrum of modern day Ahoms?

Certainly, I'd expect Sylhetis to have higher E Asian, but I wonder if they're admixing populations would be more Khasi tribals, and how different they are to the Tai people?

jortita
11-10-2016, 03:43 AM
Just to add to your post jortita, I have 2 other Sylheti samples for you (one my wife, and one a relative off 23andme):

Ancient Eurasia K6

Myself

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 32.87
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 25.36
3 East_Asian 23.39
4 Natufian 18.38

My wife

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 31.08
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 25.96
3 East_Asian 22.11
4 Natufian 20.02
5 Sub_Saharan 0.83

Sylheti M

1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 30.59
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 23.98
3 East_Asian 23.84
4 Natufian 21.58

NB the East Asian component is clearly capturing some of the ASI / S Indian component as populations such as Punjabis are scoring upto 10% E Asian.

Do you share with any other Assamese? Is there a population in Western Assam that is not mixed with the Ahoms? Or have they been assimilated into either a Bengali population, or on the spectrum of modern day Ahoms?

Certainly, I'd expect Sylhetis to have higher E Asian, but I wonder if they're admixing populations would be more Khasi tribals, and how different they are to the Tai people?

Reza, thank you very much for posting your wife and relatives results. There seem to be no other Assamese samples that I have come across, even though Ahom for example were part of the 1000 genomes project. It could also be because I dont how to download and analyse raw data and on this people such as you and Khuur who are more geneticists than I am could possibly help. today's Ahom seem to be a genetic mix of indo-aryan, austro-asiatic, tibeto-burmese and tai shan. As per studies, very few have genetic similarities with Dai and more similarities with Mon and Thai infact. There are people who would be similar to Bengalis both from West Bengal as well as the East Asian influenced Bengalis of Sylhet and there are communities such as Marwaris and other North Indians who have settled in Assam over the last couple of centuries since the start of British rule that have also inter-married with the existing communities

jortita
11-10-2016, 03:44 AM
Reza, thank you very much for posting your wife and relatives results. There seem to be no other Assamese samples that I have come across, even though Ahom for example were part of the 1000 genomes project. It could also be because I dont how to download and analyse raw data and on this people such as you and Khuur who are more geneticists than I am could possibly help. today's Ahom seem to be a genetic mix of indo-aryan, austro-asiatic, tibeto-burmese and tai shan. As per studies, very few have genetic similarities with Dai and more similarities with Mon and Thai infact. There are people who would be similar to Bengalis both from West Bengal as well as the East Asian influenced Bengalis of Sylhet and there are communities such as Marwaris and other North Indians who have settled in Assam over the last couple of centuries since the start of British rule that have also inter-married with the existing communities

As a follow up, have you tried running your wife and your relative's data on the DIY Pashtun K13 or K9 Turkic calculator, thank you

Tjada
11-10-2016, 08:33 AM
Since the Maluku/Moluccan Islands are part of Indonesia (Eastern Part) I will post my results also from Ancient Eurasia K6:

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 49.98
2 East_Asian 48.66
3 Sub_Saharan 0.81
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.54

BalkanKiwi
11-10-2016, 09:10 AM
Since the Maluku/Moluccan Islands are part of Indonesia (Eastern Part) I will post my results also from Ancient Eurasia K6:

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 49.98
2 East_Asian 48.66
3 Sub_Saharan 0.81
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.54

Its interesting to see how Ancestral South Eurasian in a way represents Polynesian migration (higher in SE Asia), and reduces further towards the pacific.

Reza
11-10-2016, 09:54 AM
As a follow up, have you tried running your wife and your relative's data on the DIY Pashtun K13 or K9 Turkic calculator, thank you

I don't have the relative's raw data to run on diy calculators, but have my wife's:

Turkic K11

Wife Myself

0.07% 2.60% SE_European
6.10% 0.00% W_Asian
6.84% 7.08% SE_Asian
0.08% 0.00% SSA
7.40% 0.74% NE_European
63.00% 71.42% Indian
1.04% 0.00% NW_European
9.05% 17.91% Turkic
2.54% 0.00% Mongol
1.23% 0.25% Papuan
2.66% 0.00% NE_Asian

Pashtun K10

Wife Myself

26.96% 15.58% Pashtun
1.50% 0.00% SE_European
0.82% 0.00% SSA
2.53% 0.00% NE_European
48.51% 69.38% Indian
10.10% 10.67% Mongol
2.20% 0.00% Papuan
3.20% 0.00% NE_Asian
0.49% 0.00% SW_Asian
3.70% 4.36% Turkic

jortita
11-10-2016, 12:12 PM
I don't have the relative's raw data to run on diy calculators, but have my wife's:

Turkic K11

Wife Myself

0.07% 2.60% SE_European
6.10% 0.00% W_Asian
6.84% 7.08% SE_Asian
0.08% 0.00% SSA
7.40% 0.74% NE_European
63.00% 71.42% Indian
1.04% 0.00% NW_European
9.05% 17.91% Turkic
2.54% 0.00% Mongol
1.23% 0.25% Papuan
2.66% 0.00% NE_Asian

Pashtun K10

Wife Myself

26.96% 15.58% Pashtun
1.50% 0.00% SE_European
0.82% 0.00% SSA
2.53% 0.00% NE_European
48.51% 69.38% Indian
10.10% 10.67% Mongol
2.20% 0.00% Papuan
3.20% 0.00% NE_Asian
0.49% 0.00% SW_Asian
3.70% 4.36% Turkic

Reza, did you ever send your 23andme data to DNA Tribes SNP Analysis for analysis, the results using the new algorithm are quite interesting and it would be good to compare mine with yours

jortita
11-12-2016, 11:25 AM
Please find a couple of links related to Ahom genetics, one being a study and the other a zetaboard discussion, https://etd.ohiolink.edu/pg_10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:ucin1378113115; http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/8710914/1/

jortita
11-12-2016, 12:18 PM
Khuur, posting some SE Asia Results in the Eurogenes K13 averages,

Averages Cambodian Malay Tibeto-Burman Burmese Vietnamese
North_Atlantic 0.08 0.17 0.32 0.05
Baltic 1.82 2.99 0.81 1.24
West_Med 0.49 0.07 1.02 0.02
West_Asian 0.33 0.15 0.7 0.14
East_Med 0.16 0.05 0.54 0.05
Red_Sea 0.4 0.02 0.31 0.24
South_Asian 14.67 16.44 18.39 5.11
East_Asian 76.89 73.6 60.71 86.45
Siberian 0.84 0.08 13.69 5.2
Amerindian 0.3 0.57 0.79 0.16
Oceanian 3.19 5.15 1.64 1.06
Northeast_African 0.49 0.34 0.24 0.16
Sub-Saharan 0.33 0.36 0.84 0.12

jortita
11-12-2016, 12:54 PM
Another calculator, Near East Neolithic K13

Population SE_ASIAN ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC CHG_EEF POLAR EHG SUB_SAHARAN IRAN_NEOLITHIC KARITIANA ANCESTRAL_INDIAN NATUFIAN SIBERIAN PAPUAN SHG_WHG

Cambodian 70.6 0.6 0 0.7 0.4 0.3 3.2 0.3 14.5 0.4 5.1 3.6 0.3
Thai 68.87 0.3 0.2 0.9 0 0.1 4.7 0.1 15.62 0.4 6.01 2.4 0.4

jortita
11-12-2016, 01:09 PM
MDLP K23b

Population Amerindian Ancestral_Altaic South_Central_Asian Arctic South_Indian Australoid Austronesian Caucasian Archaic_Human East_African East_Siberian European_Early_Farmers Khoisan Melano_Polynesian Archaic_African Near_East North_African Paleo_Siberian African_Pygmy South_East_Asian Subsaharian Tungus-Altaic European_Hunters_Gatherers

Agta 0.22 0.59 0.04 0.08 15.3 12.25 50.55 0.03 2 0.06 0.58 0.28 0.01 4.57 0.97 0.01 0.05 0.55 0.04 8.7 0.59 2.51 0.02
Agta_AG 0.96 0.5 0.47 0.11 9.46 5.94 38.85 0.93 0.52 0.03 1.74 1.78 0.47 8.89 0.7 0.16 0.07 0.61 0.26 23.57 0.65 3.3 0.04
Cambodian 0.18 0.21 0.57 0.15 11.32 1.16 40.78 0.32 0.04 0.13 0.43 0.19 0.06 0.34 0.07 0.21 0.1 0.18 0.02 41.93 0.07 1.26 0.27
Filipino 0.42 0.26 0.25 0.43 3.63 0.78 51.93 0.79 0.03 0.08 0.48 0.41 0.08 1.38 0.09 0.5 0.2 0.22 0.01 30.61 0.09 6.95 0.38
Igorot 0.01 0 0 0.03 0 0 97.34 0 0 0 0.01 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.03 0 0.97 0 1.61 0
Ilocano 0.44 0.1 0.11 0.31 1.21 0.71 58.95 0.24 0.12 0.15 0.53 0.07 0.12 2.52 0.01 0.09 0.15 0.19 0.05 26.72 0.04 7.06 0.11
Javanese 0.21 0.19 0.25 0.32 7.55 2.54 44.59 0.08 0.19 0.06 0.81 0.35 0.15 1.67 0.11 0.23 0.25 0.33 0.04 38.21 0.11 1.51 0.25
Karen 0.34 0.13 0.26 1.15 7.08 1.77 27.2 0.62 0.05 0.04 1.68 0.01 0.1 1.23 0.05 0.05 0.11 0.62 0.22 47.92 0.05 9.25 0.07
Khmer_Cambodian 0.02 0.04 0.51 0.16 11.2 2.12 39.2 0.1 0 0.06 0.55 0.02 0.06 0.23 0.35 0.26 0.12 0.09 0.11 43.85 0.05 0.88 0.02
Kinh_Vietnam_KHV 0.12 0.01 0.07 0.15 1.43 0.28 44.88 0.11 0.02 0.03 0.49 0.07 0.01 0.1 0.01 0.02 0.01 0.24 0 50.06 0.05 1.78 0.06
Malay 0.4 0.52 2.23 0.28 4.87 2.57 51.64 0.63 0.31 0.28 0.85 0.19 0.13 0.61 0.18 0.07 0.18 0.85 0.02 30.07 0.2 2.37 0.55
Malay_Malasia 0.23 0.7 2.91 0.33 14.51 2.3 38.99 0.62 0.12 0.42 1.16 0.92 0.18 1.66 0.1 0.49 0.76 0.68 0.21 29.85 0.14 1.94 0.78
Malay_Singapore 0.35 0.53 1.7 0.56 11.39 3.36 40.54 0.93 0.24 0.11 1.16 1.05 0.07 1.91 0.09 0.34 0.36 0.48 0.12 31.69 0.16 2.25 0.6
Mon 0.77 0.4 2.58 0.78 12.33 1.41 28.81 0.59 0.16 0.42 0.86 0.33 0.12 0.59 0.03 0.73 0.18 0.37 0.35 39.55 0.3 7.83 0.51
Sunda 0.1 0.09 0.27 0.42 7.98 2.32 45.7 0.31 0.1 0.13 0.5 0.72 0.1 1.99 0.11 0.25 0.24 0.22 0.03 36.76 0.26 1.16 0.24
Tai_Khuen 0.12 0.01 0.07 0.37 0.97 1.53 40.91 0.07 0.17 0.08 1.3 0.04 0.02 1.74 0.11 0.1 0.03 0.49 0.01 46.18 0.14 5.48 0.06
Tai_Lue 0.31 0.16 0.03 0.39 1.3 0.41 44.32 0.15 0.01 0.03 1.04 0.07 0.05 0.66 0.04 0.12 0.02 0.62 0.04 43.83 0.11 6.21 0.07
Tai_Yuan 0.22 0.15 0.14 0.91 3.45 0.81 38.65 0.08 0.09 0.04 0.85 0.21 0.04 0.79 0.05 0.13 0.12 0.7 0.04 46.68 0.1 5.69 0.07
Thai 0.15 0.08 2.11 0.29 11.9 1.21 38.01 0.84 0.03 0.11 0.81 0.25 0.05 0.46 0.06 0.42 0.16 0.22 0.09 41.23 0.07 1.1 0.35
Vietnamese 0.06 0.04 0.04 0.08 0.94 0.51 44.05 0.01 0.08 0 0.3 0.01 0 0.39 0 0 0 0.11 0.01 46.51 0 6.84 0.01
Vietnamese_central 0.07 0.01 1.15 0.01 1.66 0.9 46.21 0 0 0 0.03 0 0 0.94 0.38 0 0.01 0.2 0 47.97 0 0.45 0
Vietnamese_north 0.66 0.11 0.41 0.11 0.14 0.36 45.47 0.08 0 0 1.22 0 0 0.08 0 0 0 0.44 0 48.24 0 2.67 0.01
Vietnamese_south 0.02 0 0 0.33 3.88 0 46.77 0 0 0 0.05 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.13 0 48.63 0 0.18 0

Tsakhur
11-13-2016, 06:16 AM
Another calculator, Near East Neolithic K13

Population SE_ASIAN ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC CHG_EEF POLAR EHG SUB_SAHARAN IRAN_NEOLITHIC KARITIANA ANCESTRAL_INDIAN NATUFIAN SIBERIAN PAPUAN SHG_WHG

Cambodian 70.6 0.6 0 0.7 0.4 0.3 3.2 0.3 14.5 0.4 5.1 3.6 0.3
Thai 68.87 0.3 0.2 0.9 0 0.1 4.7 0.1 15.62 0.4 6.01 2.4 0.4

Where did you find the average spreadsheet from?

Tsakhur
11-13-2016, 06:24 AM
Khuur, posting some SE Asia Results in the Eurogenes K13 averages,

Averages Cambodian Malay Tibeto-Burman Burmese Vietnamese
North_Atlantic 0.08 0.17 0.32 0.05
Baltic 1.82 2.99 0.81 1.24
West_Med 0.49 0.07 1.02 0.02
West_Asian 0.33 0.15 0.7 0.14
East_Med 0.16 0.05 0.54 0.05
Red_Sea 0.4 0.02 0.31 0.24
South_Asian 14.67 16.44 18.39 5.11
East_Asian 76.89 73.6 60.71 86.45
Siberian 0.84 0.08 13.69 5.2
Amerindian 0.3 0.57 0.79 0.16
Oceanian 3.19 5.15 1.64 1.06
Northeast_African 0.49 0.34 0.24 0.16
Sub-Saharan 0.33 0.36 0.84 0.12

I can post but I am not fond of this calculator as it is unclear whether the "South Asian" component is just Ancestral South Indian/ASI or is it actual "South Asian" admixture which should have West Eurasian affinity. Even if it is actual "South Asian" admix, it can still be confusing as it does not differentiate between the ASI and the West Eurasian parts unlike ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6, CHG K8 or probably even Steppe K10 which makes it clear between the two parts.

I am also not fond of Mdlp K23b as it just show "South Asian" component and does not differentiate between the ASI and West Eurasian portions if it is actual admixture from South Asians.

jortita
11-13-2016, 07:10 AM
I can post but I am not fond of this calculator as it is unclear whether the "South Asian" component is just Ancestral South Indian/ASI or is it actual "South Asian" admixture which should have West Eurasian affinity. Even if it is actual "South Asian" admix, it can still be confusing as it does not differentiate between the ASI and the West Eurasian parts unlike ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6, CHG K8 or probably even Steppe K10 which makes it clear between the two parts.

I am also not fond of Mdlp K23b as it just show "South Asian" component and does not differentiate between the ASI and West Eurasian portions if it is actual admixture from South Asians.

I agree with you on Eurogenes and MDLP calculators, just for comparison, my averages for ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and Steppe K10 for my Ancestry DNA data are as follows:

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 28.42
2 East_Asian 27.14
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 23.35
4 Natufian 19.42
5 Sub_Saharan 1.08
6 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.59

Iran Neolithic K6

19.00% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
27.43% East_Asian
42.35% Iran_Neolithic
3.29% Natufian
6.82% WHG
1.11% Sub_Saharan

Steppe K10

5.69% Near_Eastern
14.88% East_Asian
2.14% Siberian
6.75% Oceanian
4.54% WHG-UHG
1.24% Sub-Saharan
44.50% Hindu_Kush
4.01% Steppe
0.33% Amerindian
15.93% Southeast_Asian

Do you have the CHG K8 calculator files, as I have been looking for these files and would like to run both my FTDNA and Ancestry DNA data

jortita
11-13-2016, 10:27 AM
Where did you find the average spreadsheet from?

I found the average spreadsheet on Gedmatch

Tsakhur
11-13-2016, 02:10 PM
I agree with you on Eurogenes and MDLP calculators, just for comparison, my averages for ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and Steppe K10 for my Ancestry DNA data are as follows:

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 28.42
2 East_Asian 27.14
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 23.35
4 Natufian 19.42
5 Sub_Saharan 1.08
6 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.59

Iran Neolithic K6

19.00% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
27.43% East_Asian
42.35% Iran_Neolithic
3.29% Natufian
6.82% WHG
1.11% Sub_Saharan

Steppe K10

5.69% Near_Eastern
14.88% East_Asian
2.14% Siberian
6.75% Oceanian
4.54% WHG-UHG
1.24% Sub-Saharan
44.50% Hindu_Kush
4.01% Steppe
0.33% Amerindian
15.93% Southeast_Asian

Do you have the CHG K8 calculator files, as I have been looking for these files and would like to run both my FTDNA and Ancestry DNA data

Hmm thinking again the "Hindu Kush" in Steppe K10 might be hiding some ASI because you seem to score less Eastern Non-African/East Eurasian than in ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6.

Here is the CHG K8 calculator (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6073-K8-CHG-Test-Results). I also think the "CHG" component might have minor Eastern Non-African affinity which is the ASI as Australian Aborigines are scoring very small amounts (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)of CHG.The reason CHG is a signal of indirect West Eurasian gene flow into a lot of SE Asian populations is because that if you observed, the CHG peaks in Balochis/Brahuis. Furthermore, other West Asian/ Caucasus populations score CHG in significant amounts (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6073-K8-CHG-Test-Results&p=129076&viewfull=1#post129076) whereas other East Eurasians such as Atayal, Ami, Tujia, Han Chinese, Japanese completely lack the component. Therefore I think CHG in most SE Asian samples are West Eurasian derived albeit indirectly through gene flow from South Asia.

Also some SE Asians such as Lahu, Dai, Kinh/Vietnamese seem to completely lack South Asian admixture or have very negligible (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196618&viewfull=1#post196618)amounts. This is also means they likely lack minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry which come with the South Asian gene flow as well.

You might be interested to see this post by me regarding the minor West Eurasian signal in Cambodians (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)which is shown mosty through Iran Neolithc ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 calculator. Unfortunately, Cambodians are the only sample in the averages of these two calculators.

jortita
11-14-2016, 02:03 AM
Hmm thinking again the "Hindu Kush" in Steppe K10 might be hiding some ASI because you seem to score less Eastern Non-African/East Eurasian than in ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6.

Here is the CHG K8 calculator (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6073-K8-CHG-Test-Results). I also think the "CHG" component might have minor Eastern Non-African affinity which is the ASI as Australian Aborigines are scoring very small amounts (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)of CHG.The reason CHG is a signal of indirect West Eurasian gene flow into a lot of SE Asian populations is because that if you observed, the CHG peaks in Balochis/Brahuis. Furthermore, other West Asian/ Caucasus populations score CHG in significant amounts (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6073-K8-CHG-Test-Results&p=129076&viewfull=1#post129076) whereas other East Eurasians such as Atayal, Ami, Tujia, Han Chinese, Japanese completely lack the component. Therefore I think CHG in most SE Asian samples are West Eurasian derived albeit indirectly through gene flow from South Asia.

Also some SE Asians such as Lahu, Dai, Kinh/Vietnamese seem to completely lack South Asian admixture or have very negligible (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196618&viewfull=1#post196618)amounts. This is also means they likely lack minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry which come with the South Asian gene flow as well.

You might be interested to see this post by me regarding the minor West Eurasian signal in Cambodians (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5391-Do-Southeast-Asians-have-West-Eurasian-ancestry&p=196165&viewfull=1#post196165)which is shown mosty through Iran Neolithc ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 calculator. Unfortunately, Cambodians are the only sample in the averages of these two calculators.

I agree with you Khuur on the Steppe K10. In terms of the CHG Garo seems to be fine its Khasi who are more South Asian than Garo, Garo are around 80% East Asian while Khasi around 55-60%. Chad's calculator does not seem have any DIY link, so will write to him and ask if he will run the calculator on my FTDNA and Ancestry DNA raw data for a price, thanks

I am curious to see your results from any tests, thank you

Tjada
11-17-2016, 08:09 PM
I see results from Eurogenes K15 and Dodecad K12b.
So here are mine to share:

Eurogenes K15;


# Population Percent
1 Southeast_Asian 55.08
2 Oceanian 37.07
3 South_Asian 5.17
4 Baltic 1.39
5 Sub-Saharan 0.61
6 Amerindian 0.3
7 Eastern_Euro 0.23
8 Northeast_African 0.08
9 West_Med 0.07


Dodecad K12b


# Population Percent
1 Southeast_Asian 52.64
2 South_Asian 22.38
3 East_Asian 17.81
4 East_African 2.29
5 North_European 1.54
6 Sub_Saharan 1.47
7 Siberian 0.96
8 Atlantic_Med 0.67
9 Southwest_Asian 0.22
10 Gedrosia 0.02

okarinaofsteiner
04-11-2018, 04:23 AM
MDLP K23b

Population Amerindian Ancestral_Altaic South_Central_Asian Arctic South_Indian Australoid Austronesian Caucasian Archaic_Human East_African East_Siberian European_Early_Farmers Khoisan Melano_Polynesian Archaic_African Near_East North_African Paleo_Siberian African_Pygmy South_East_Asian Subsaharian Tungus-Altaic European_Hunters_Gatherers


Cambodian 0.18 0.21 0.57 0.15 11.32 1.16 40.78 0.32 0.04 0.13 0.43 0.19 0.06 0.34 0.07 0.21 0.1 0.18 0.02 41.93 0.07 1.26 0.27
Khmer_Cambodian 0.02 0.04 0.51 0.16 11.2 2.12 39.2 0.1 0 0.06 0.55 0.02 0.06 0.23 0.35 0.26 0.12 0.09 0.11 43.85 0.05 0.88 0.02

Kinh_Vietnam_KHV 0.12 0.01 0.07 0.15 1.43 0.28 44.88 0.11 0.02 0.03 0.49 0.07 0.01 0.1 0.01 0.02 0.01 0.24 0 50.06 0.05 1.78 0.06
Vietnamese 0.06 0.04 0.04 0.08 0.94 0.51 44.05 0.01 0.08 0 0.3 0.01 0 0.39 0 0 0 0.11 0.01 46.51 0 6.84 0.01
Vietnamese_central 0.07 0.01 1.15 0.01 1.66 0.9 46.21 0 0 0 0.03 0 0 0.94 0.38 0 0.01 0.2 0 47.97 0 0.45 0
Vietnamese_north 0.66 0.11 0.41 0.11 0.14 0.36 45.47 0.08 0 0 1.22 0 0 0.08 0 0 0 0.44 0 48.24 0 2.67 0.01
Vietnamese_south 0.02 0 0 0.33 3.88 0 46.77 0 0 0 0.05 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.13 0 48.63 0 0.18 0

Anthroscape user @redwine says the five MDLP K23b Vietnamese reference populations are off. I tried to fact-check his claim by searching my GEDmatch One-to-Many matches for Vietnamese samples and comparing them with the reference populations. I can't post any links since I'm not at 20 posts yet, but here's what I can say:

1) Most Vietnamese people are between "Cantonese" and "Vietnamese" on East Eurasian ancestry components like "Tungus_Altaic" and "South_East_Asia". "Vietnamese_N/C/S" and "Kinh_Vietnam_KHV" have far less "Tungus_Altaic" than actual Vietnamese samples.
2) Most Vietnamese also have low levels of "South_Indian" (~1-3%), which is around the same as the "Vietnamese_north/central/south" reference populations. This separates them from "Cantonese", "Yao", and "Zhuang".

afbarwaaqo
06-26-2018, 03:37 AM
Arenít most south east asians a mix of east asian and polynesian?

NetNomad
07-05-2018, 05:43 PM
Aren’t most south east asians a mix of east asian and polynesian?

Polynesians are a mix of Taiwanese (South Chinese in origin) and Melanesians.

Most Southeast Asians don't have high Melanesian admix. Probably less than 10%.

Tjada
07-05-2018, 07:32 PM
Polynesians are a mix of Taiwanese (South Chinese in origin) and Melanesians.

Most Southeast Asians don't have high Melanesian admix. Probably less than 10%.

Only people east of the "Wallace line" (islands of eastern Indonesia) have a high Melanesian admix.
I myself (Maluku Islands) have an average of 40% "melanesian" by different DNA tests.

Rene Bascos Sarabia Jr.
08-18-2019, 11:29 AM
Anthroscape user @redwine says the five MDLP K23b Vietnamese reference populations are off. I tried to fact-check his claim by searching my GEDmatch One-to-Many matches for Vietnamese samples and comparing them with the reference populations. I can't post any links since I'm not at 20 posts yet, but here's what I can say:

1) Most Vietnamese people are between "Cantonese" and "Vietnamese" on East Eurasian ancestry components like "Tungus_Altaic" and "South_East_Asia". "Vietnamese_N/C/S" and "Kinh_Vietnam_KHV" have far less "Tungus_Altaic" than actual Vietnamese samples.
2) Most Vietnamese also have low levels of "South_Indian" (~1-3%), which is around the same as the "Vietnamese_north/central/south" reference populations. This separates them from "Cantonese", "Yao", and "Zhuang".

Hey it's me Selurong! From Eastbound88! Lol! It's nice that I met you here! Can you teach me how you abstracted or took the genetic information of Y-DNA from Applied Biosystems...
http://www6.appliedbiosystems.com/yfilerdatabase/

And turned that into picture form here...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg

I need to replicated the process on how you took that data so that I could prove to Wikipedians that your data is genuine since it seems like you need some Genetic Jargon to do that.

okarinaofsteiner
08-19-2019, 03:54 AM
Hey it's me Selurong! From Eastbound88! Lol! It's nice that I met you here! Can you teach me how you abstracted or took the genetic information of Y-DNA from Applied Biosystems...
http://www6.appliedbiosystems.com/yfilerdatabase/

And turned that into picture form here...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg

I need to replicated the process on how you took that data so that I could prove to Wikipedians that your data is genuine since it seems like you need some Genetic Jargon to do that.

Hi there,

I had nothing to do with making that graph haha. I assume you're talking about my Anthroscape thread of MDLP K23b results among East Asians.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroscape/mdlp-k23b-results-and-pca-plots-for-east-asians-t85446.html

I don't actually know if all of the "Filipino" GEDmatch samples I collected are of Filipino descent, I mostly guessed based on their last name and how close their Oracle results were to the Philippines reference populations. I can PM you if you want more information on that.

shazou
08-20-2019, 06:25 AM
I think that plenty of non-Filipino SE-Asian ones do, but it more than likely wouldn't be of the Iberian type as more common in the Philippine Islands I think.