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Souriquois
09-26-2015, 03:34 PM
This week, there was a conference at the UN on cyber-violence against women. Here's an article:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/9399169/united-nations-women-cyber-violence-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn

Some parts:


As one of the most prominent figures embroiled in GamerGate, a loosely organized crusade to rid of the video game world of progressive voices, Quinn mentioned having "sat for two weeks in a chatroom silently recording them plotting how they would [drive her to kill herself]" during the period in which her online antagonizers were most virulent.


Figures presented in the report indicate that 73 percent of women have faced the types of online attacks mentioned and experienced by Sarkeesian and Quinn, such as threats and cyberstalking. Additionally, women are 27 times more likely to be victimized on the internet than men.

More often than not, these attacks go unreported. Even if they are, perpetrators are unlikely to be punished for their actions, according to the findings.

More:

Pacific Standard: Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet (http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170)

Tim Berners-Lee: Online violence against women is a "tragedy of humanity" (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-12/11/tim-berners-lee-violence-against-women)

John Oliver on the phenomenon


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI

Only a few jurisdictions have passed specific laws on this, most notably, New Zealand, and the Canadian province of Nova Scotia.

The full report:

http://www.broadbandcommission.org/Documents/reports/bb-wg-gender-report2015.pdf

There are many other ills that go on on the Internet, that would be illegal and punished if done IRL. But when it happens on the Internet, in a more connected world, it does just as much damage to a person.

DMXX
09-26-2015, 04:13 PM
There are many other ills that go on on the Internet, that would be illegal and punished if done IRL. But when it happens on the Internet, in a more connected world, it does just as much damage to a person.

Agreed. If anything, one could argue it does more damage. This apathetic dismissal of discrimination online as "just words on a screen" completely ignores the permanence of the sentiments which coincide with sexual harassment, death threats and such being expressed in an indefinitely permanent medium. Once something goes up online, odds are, it'll remain there for the rest of one's life (unless the individual goes through a legal process to remove them, or they aren't famous enough to attract multiple re-uploads).

That some people rush in to justify the troubling status quo ("it's the Internet dude, death and rape threats shouldn't be taken seriously lol!") underscores the inescapable fact that many users online lack a basic understanding of civility and mutual respect. Let alone the necessity for such statements. How a woman is going to benefit from a 15 year old child threatening to assault her is beyond me.

On the whole, we remain a rather irrational and immature species, in spite of all our fanciful technological toys.

Kurd
09-26-2015, 04:50 PM
There are many other ills that go on on the Internet, that would be illegal and punished if done IRL. But when it happens on the Internet, in a more connected world, it does just as much damage to a person.

My experience has shown that crimes perpetrated behind the veil of the internet are challenging to investigate. So assuming the behavior is criminalized in the victim's jurisdiction, the challenges include:

1- Lack of training and resources by smaller police departments
2- IP annonymising services used by criminals
3- ISPs in many countries do not maintain IP records
4- Red tape to get cooperation from ISPs in other countries
5- almost unlimited hurdles and red tape in having criminals extradited from most countries
6- Behaviour not criminalized in country where criminal resides
7- realistically, no extraditions take place unless crime is extremely serious

And the list goes on. If the victim and criminal reside in the same country things of course are alot simpler. One has to pick and choose of course the type of police agency to report the crime to due to reason 1 above

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 04:59 PM
My experience has shown that crimes perpetrated behind the veil of the internet are challenging to investigate. So assuming the behavior is criminalized in the victim's jurisdiction, the challenges include:

1- Lack of training and resources by smaller police departments
2- IP annonymising services used by criminals
3- ISPs in many countries do not maintain IP records
4- Red tape to get cooperation from ISPs in other countries
5- almost unlimited hurdles and red tape in having criminals extradited from most countries
6- Behaviour not criminalized in country where criminal resides
7- realistically, no extraditions take place unless crime is extremely serious

And the list goes on. If the victim and criminal reside in the same country things of course are alot simpler. One has to pick and choose of course the type of police agency to report the crime to due to reason 1 above

They are not difficult to investigate. Even the smallest police departments have a cyber crimes unit.

It's a symptom of systematic injustice on behalf of the police that they are not investigated. Unless you are a white male, don't expect help from the cops.

When women go to the police about sexual assault, harassment, threats, police often don't believe them in real life of blame them for bringing it upon themselves. Leaked documents from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police a few years back showed officers were instructed to assume a woman was lying about being raped right when she walked in the station door.

What's hilarious is in that UN report, the police officer who ignored the Rehteah Parsons case (until she committed suicide and Anonymous got involved, leading to the law being passed in Nova Scotia after protests) is running for a seat in Parliament. I'd vote Conservative before I voted for him lol.

Anonymous got involved in the case of another Canadian girl, trolled to death, and previously ignored by the cops but now the man responsible is being extradited to Canada from the Netherlands, so the country argument is moot.

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:07 PM
They are not difficult to investigate. Even the smallest police departments have a cyber crimes unit.

It's a symptom of systematic injustice on behalf of the police that they are not investigated. Unless you are a white male, don't expect help from the cops.

Actually I forgot the most important element, LUCK as to who gets your case. Some investigators are very motivated and competent, many are lazy and incompetent.

Regardless, you will have about 0 chance of having a criminal apprehended and convicted in international cases, unless of course a crime of violence occurs, but in that case you would of course hopefully have lots of physical evidence to sustain an investigation and conviction

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 05:11 PM
Actually I forgot the most important element, LUCK as to who gets your case. Some investigators are very motivated and competent, many are lazy and incompetent.

Regardless, you will have about 0 chance of having a criminal apprehended and convicted in international cases, unless of course a crime of violence occurs, but in that case you would of course hopefully have lots of physical evidence to sustain an investigation and conviction

In my case I went to the police five times with all the information on who was doing it and heaps of evidence (I'm good with computers), no chance they would help me. Only one cop tried.

My story is part of the series in the Pacific Standard. I'm the case of the person from Canada.

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:18 PM
In my case I went to the police five times with all the information on who was doing it and heaps of evidence (I'm good with computers), no chance they would help me. Only one cop tried.

My story is part of the series in the Pacific Standard. I'm the case of the person from Canada.

What police agency did you report it to, what type of crime, and what country do you think the criminal resides in?

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 05:20 PM
What police agency did you report it to, what type of crime, and what country do you think the criminal resides in?

RCMP... who has a long track record of not caring about crimes against women. (Quite a hot button issue in this federal election, actually)

Lol there's a reason I didn't disclose my gender in my profile and am glad this forum has that option. But I just disclosed it. Well, this thread will be buried eventually. Yeah, I'm a woman.

The person resided in the United States, in Texas.

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:24 PM
RCMP... who has a long track record of not caring about crimes against women.

Lol there's a reason I didn't disclose my gender in my profile and am glad this forum has that option. But I just disclosed it. Well, this thread will be buried eventually. Yeah, I'm a woman.

The person resided in the United States, in Texas.

What type of crime, and what type of evidence do you have. Based on the evidence you have I will let you know what the challenges are

DMXX
09-26-2015, 05:27 PM
Just a quick comment; if things are becoming too personal for the discussion, it'd probably be best to wait until the PM restriction on new members has passed for Souriquois and proceed from there. This forum area is public, so if there's concern for privacy breeches, shifting things over to PMs is appropriate. Entirely at Souriquois' discretion, of course.

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 05:30 PM
What type of crime, and what type of evidence do you have. Based on the evidence you have I will let you know what the challenges are

Threats and slander... I have piles of evidence in screenshots and text. Plus I got the guy's information I know who he is. I know that may be used against me in court, that I doxxed him back. But after piles of "don't feed the troll" and sexist comments like "you're bringing it on yourself", "you're overreacting", "you're crazy" and problematic "advice" like "get off the Internet" and even "retrain in a new profession" (because my job requires Internet) I decided to take matters into my own hands and I am saving up to take him to civil court which is what my lawyer advised (just can't afford it right now, 5k retainer).

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:30 PM
RCMP... who has a long track record of not caring about crimes against women. (Quite a hot button issue in this federal election, actually)

Lol there's a reason I didn't disclose my gender in my profile and am glad this forum has that option. But I just disclosed it. Well, this thread will be buried eventually. Yeah, I'm a woman.

The person resided in the United States, in Texas.

Feel free to PM me. you dont have to share details. I can still give you my assessment

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:38 PM
Threats and slander... I have piles of evidence in screenshots and text. Plus I got the guy's information I know who he is. I know that may be used against me in court, that I doxxed him back. But after piles of "don't feed the troll" and sexist comments like "you're bringing it on yourself", "you're overreacting", "you're crazy" and problematic "advice" like "get off the Internet" and even "retrain in a new profession" (because my job requires Internet) I decided to take matters into my own hands and I am saving up to take him to civil court which is what my lawyer advised (just can't afford it right now, 5k retainer).

Your evidence looks good. I by no means want to minimize the crime, but I hate to say IMO, no agency will pursue an international case based on these types of crimes.

Civil action is an option, but you would have to weigh the cost benefit, and whether you can collect on a judgement if you get awarded one

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 05:38 PM
This thread talked about just women, but race is a factor as well. I'll try to find it later, a documentary on the type of discrimination First Nations people face online. On my phone now.

But yeah as for online harassment it's shown that women get the brunt though the order from most harassed to least are:

1. Women of colour (by far most)
2. White women (very close second)
3. Men of colour (not near as much as women of any race)
4. White men (unless they're gay, don't get harassed at all)

MikeWhalen
09-26-2015, 05:52 PM
Hope you kick his ass Souriquois

It is unacceptable for law enforcement to not investigate an obvious case of abuse and threat just because it is difficult

...and when some one does the same sort of attack on someone with real power, just watch how fast many of the very real hurdles to investigating/prosecuting the case get swept away, and the 'cyber horsemen' go charging into the thick of it...in or out of Canada

if I can slightly derail this for a pet peeve of mine

...I HATE it when some dope harangues or criticisms some of the western countries for their high incarceration rate...they pull out some tripe like Canada or the U.S. has more prisoners than China or what not
....that's because in our countries, there are real laws protecting whole swaths of people from a variety of crimes that are ignored in most other countries
...In our countries, women and children in particular, are seen by the legal system as being real people who may not be beaten, raped, pimped out or abused by a dozen other common despicable crimes

You all know there are many countries where that is simply not the case...either by law or tradition or religion or whatnot, there is no such thing as a man raping his wife....a child is owned by the father and he can do what ever he wants, beating, torture, sale, rape....a girl can be sold and raped as long as she is over age 8 and 'mature'...the vile nonsense is endless

As flawed as our legal system is, and no one knows that better than I who have worked in Canada's correctional system for 25 yrs, it is still way better than most other countries, including some 'western democracies'
...I can tell you for a fact that one of the largest growing segment of prisoners in Canada is guys (mostly), that have been convicted of Domestic Violence type offences, and I will often classify a dozen or so a month, and thats from a relatively sparcely populated area
...how many other countries have a similar conviction rate for DV you think?

so the next time you hear some weak minded fool, parroting some nonsense about our 'high' incarceration rate, do 1 of 2 things please
...explain the above point to them or probably better, just punch them in the snout and tellem 'Mike sent this'
:)

OK-sorry, derail over



I would certainly vote for more, better and big assed fanged cyber laws that took on the bullies, psychotics, DV types and hate filled cowards and this is going to be a bigger and bigger issue

Mike

ps-'horsemen' is a nick name for the RCMP

Kurd
09-26-2015, 05:52 PM
This thread talked about just women, but race is a factor as well. I'll try to find it later, a documentary on the type of discrimination First Nations people face online. On my phone now.

But yeah as for online harassment it's shown that women get the brunt though the order from most harassed to least are:

1. Women of colour (by far most)
2. White women (very close second)
3. Men of colour (not near as much as women of any race)
4. White men (unless they're gay, don't get harassed at all)

Actually you have another option. If you are willing to travel a couple of times to Texas, you can file a criminal complaint in the county or city the suspect is in. This would have a good likelihood of being investigated

Edit: you can always start by calling the appropriate jurisdiction in Texas. If it is a big city, I would call that city's PD, and ask to speak to the detectives division. If it is a small town, I would call the county PD or the Texas DPS. At least you may get an idea before you travel to Texas

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 06:03 PM
Hope you kick his ass Souriquois

It is unacceptable for law enforcement to not investigate an obvious case of abuse and threat just because it is difficult

...and when some one does the same sort of attack on someone with real power, just watch how fast many of the very real hurdles to investigating/prosecuting the case get swept away, and the 'cyber horsemen' go charging into the thick of it...in or out of Canada

if I can slightly derail this for a pet peeve of mine
...I HATE it when some dope harangues or criticisms some of the western countries for their high incarceration rate...they pull out some tripe like Canada or the U.S. has more prisoners than China or what not
....that's because in our countries, there are real laws protecting whole swaths of people from a variety of crimes that are ignored...In our countries, women and children in particular, are seen by the legal system as being real people who may not be beaten, raped, pimped out or a dozen other common despicable crimes

You all know there are many countries where that is simply not the case...either by law or tradition or religion or whatnot, there is no such thing as a man raping his wife....a child is owned by the father and he can do what ever he wants....a girl can be sold and raped as long as she is over age 8 and 'mature'...the vile nonsense is endless
As flawed as our legal system is, and no one knows that better than I who have worked in Canada's correctional system for 25 yrs, it is still way better than most other countries, including some 'western democracies'
...I can tell you for a fact that one of the largest growing segment of prisoners in Canada is guys (mostly), that have been convicted of Domestic Violence type offences, and I will often classify a dozen or so a month, and thats from a relatively sparcely populated area

OK-sorry, derail over

I would certainly vote for more, better and big assed fanged cyber laws that took on the bullies, psychotics, DV types and hate filled cowards

Mike

ps-'horsemen' is a nick name for the RCMP

I hate to break it to you but in Canada women and children are not protected by our law enforcement. 1200 missing and murdered Aboriginal women and girls. Also if you're gonna blame it on "Aboriginal culture" you can't cos 74% of solved homicides in Canada were men killing women, white men killing white women mostly. Canada is an anti-woman culture. And our prisons are being filled with Aboriginal mem for small non-violent offenses, not killing women. Our prisons are getting worse.

Also Canada slipped from #1 to #23 in the list of safest countries for women in the past decade.

Thank Stephen Harper for all that. He Americanized the country. Actually in the French-language debate he speaks French like he's from France another sexist/racist country where they disproportionately imprison people of colour too. And he's misogynistic. He's un-Canadian.

Marc LÚpine would be proud of what Harper did to this country.

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 06:41 PM
What disgusts me more is Harper used Rehteah Parsons and Amanda Todd as one of the excuses to pass C-51. As well as Nathan Cirillo. The bodies of three people, and the body of Nathan Cirillo was barely even cold yet when the law was tabled. Two women and a veteran, groups he don't care about... and the families of all three strongly opposed the law. Disgusting.

But yeah, now we're getting into Canadian politics. My favourite subject, needs a different thread. Lol.

MikeWhalen
09-26-2015, 09:39 PM
well, I hate to break it to you Souriquois, but what I wrote is quite accurate and most of your response to me was not.

I did note that Canada could improve what we have, a great deal, but did that not count vis a vis your response?
Surely you noticed that one of the major points I raised was crimes against women and children and other vulnerable persons on a macro level and where 'we' placed in that regarding prison populations...was that of no interest to you?

....still the point I made of actual convicted criminals due to their violence against women and children is true and truthful, and to suggest otherwise is more about hidden agendas and political propaganda...which I have zero interest in engaging in, as parts of your rant seem more like Soc 101 boilerplate rhetoric than a factual discussion of an issue

as a small aside...
Harper got voted in, several times,( not by me, ever btw), but he never the less did, in fair and open elections
...that outcome and he himself, was neither Un Canadian, nor was it him being the devils secret spawn on earth or the beast with 666 engraved in his glasses ect. and to suggest otherwise, is childish nonsense

you and anyone else are perfectly within their rights to think his policies stunk, he legislation enacted awful and the direction he took the country in wrong, but everyone elses vote counts as much as yours does and he got enough of them to form 3 or 4 governments...that's not hate, that is repeated free votes
... or is that your problem, if the outcome does not match your desire, then everything about it is hateful and you alone should get to decide who is boss?

btw, you did know that the Highway of Tears started way before Harper ever showed up, and yes, it was due to generations of racist neglect and gov. indifference and incompetence?

the women's movement makes a good point on the above issue I think, when some of them say its really about power, and it was those without power that were ignored, as there were quite a few non native women and children that suffered the same fate, although natives suffered dis-proportionally

That certainly is the key criteria I have seen in my career...if the criminal was linked to someone powerful ie: lawyer, judge, native police chief (all actual examples I have dealt with)...the 'system' was pretty f'ing quick to accommodate any requests regarding them, regardless of color or ethnicity
....if they were the classic street person, zero damns were given, regardless of color or ethnicity

Finally, you state that the majority of Aboriginal men are 'filling our prisons for small non violent offenses'. That is clearly untrue in my jurisdiction for sure, and I will bet most, if not all others.
Make no mistake, most of the native male violence is on other natives...native on native violence is a well documented issue and guess who gets the brunt of it...female natives. but I have read more than a few protest signs on the CBS with that on it, wonder why?

Finally
I had to read your last line twice, because I could not believe you would actually say something like that..."Marc LÚpine would be proud of what Harper did to this country"

to link Harper's policies to Lepine's actions is disgraceful, not out of consideration of the politician, but out of respect to the women killed and trivializing that event to finish off a rant on the internet, so you and I are done talking

I have been communicating on the internet long enough to know when what I say has no value or meaning to the target, but I figured Souriquois put so many whoppers in her response to my first post, that I had to clarify a few things so readers not familiar with any of this would have a chance to spot fact from fiction

silly me for thinking she would feel my post was supportive of her

I will not be responding to any further posts on this thread, I have said my piece, its up to the reader to decide if it has worth or is worthless
I have zero interest in drama, and as an old pal once reminded me
...it will do no good

Mike


I hate to break it to you but in Canada women and children are not protected by our law enforcement. 1200 missing and murdered Aboriginal women and girls. Also if you're gonna blame it on "Aboriginal culture" you can't cos 74% of solved homicides in Canada were men killing women, white men killing white women mostly. Canada is an anti-woman culture. And our prisons are being filled with Aboriginal mem for small non-violent offenses, not killing women. Our prisons are getting worse.

Also Canada slipped from #1 to #23 in the list of safest countries for women in the past decade.

Thank Stephen Harper for all that. He Americanized the country. Actually in the French-language debate he speaks French like he's from France another sexist/racist country where they disproportionately imprison people of colour too. And he's misogynistic. He's un-Canadian.

Marc LÚpine would be proud of what Harper did to this country.

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 11:32 PM
well, I hate to break it to you Souriquois, but what I wrote is quite accurate and most of your response to me was not.

I did note that Canada could improve what we have, a great deal, but did that not count vis a vis your response?
Surely you noticed that one of the major points I raised was crimes against women and children and other vulnerable persons on a macro level and where 'we' placed in that regarding prison populations...was that of no interest to you?

....still the point I made of actual convicted criminals due to their violence against women and children is true and truthful, and to suggest otherwise is more about hidden agendas and political propaganda...which I have zero interest in engaging in, as parts of your rant seem more like Soc 101 boilerplate rhetoric than a factual discussion of an issue

as a small aside...
Harper got voted in, several times,( not by me, ever btw), but he never the less did, in fair and open elections
...that outcome and he himself, was neither Un Canadian, nor was it him being the devils secret spawn on earth or the beast with 666 engraved in his glasses ect. and to suggest otherwise, is childish nonsense

you and anyone else are perfectly within their rights to think his policies stunk, he legislation enacted awful and the direction he took the country in wrong, but everyone elses vote counts as much as yours does and he got enough of them to form 3 or 4 governments...that's not hate, that is repeated free votes
... or is that your problem, if the outcome does not match your desire, then everything about it is hateful and you alone should get to decide who is boss?

btw, you did know that the Highway of Tears started way before Harper ever showed up, and yes, it was due to generations of racist neglect and gov. indifference and incompetence?

the women's movement makes a good point on the above issue I think, when some of them say its really about power, and it was those without power that were ignored, as there were quite a few non native women and children that suffered the same fate, although natives suffered dis-proportionally

That certainly is the key criteria I have seen in my career...if the criminal was linked to someone powerful ie: lawyer, judge, native police chief (all actual examples I have dealt with)...the 'system' was pretty f'ing quick to accommodate any requests regarding them, regardless of color or ethnicity
....if they were the classic street person, zero damns were given, regardless of color or ethnicity

Finally, you state that the majority of Aboriginal men are 'filling our prisons for small non violent offenses'. That is clearly untrue in my jurisdiction for sure, and I will bet most, if not all others.
Make no mistake, most of the native male violence is on other natives...native on native violence is a well documented issue and guess who gets the brunt of it...female natives. but I have read more than a few protest signs on the CBS with that on it, wonder why?

Finally
I had to read your last line twice, because I could not believe you would actually say something like that..."Marc LÚpine would be proud of what Harper did to this country"

to link Harper's policies to Lepine's actions is disgraceful, not out of consideration of the politician, but out of respect to the women killed and trivializing that event to finish off a rant on the internet, so you and I are done talking

I have been communicating on the internet long enough to know when what I say has no value or meaning to the target, but I figured Souriquois put so many whoppers in her response to my first post, that I had to clarify a few things so readers not familiar with any of this would have a chance to spot fact from fiction

silly me for thinking she would feel my post was supportive of her

I will not be responding to any further posts on this thread, I have said my piece, its up to the reader to decide if it has worth or is worthless
I have zero interest in drama, and as an old pal once reminded me
...it will do no good

Mike

Look, I apologize it was a knee-jerk reaction on my part, a reaction out of immense pain. I don't have much respect for law enforcement in this country, or the government, dealing with them has been a world of hurt. The only thing I like about Harper is relaxing gun laws because I don't trust the cops to protect me.

You work in corrections, so you see people who actually get convicted. You don't see the other end of the law, in part also because you are white and male, the scores of crimes that go unreported or if they are reported, victims being revictimized by law enforcement. Many women do not report violent crime against them because it ain't worth it. For every 1000 rapes in Canada, maybe 3 result in a conviction. Domestic violence is reported much less. Often, these things are talked about amongst women "stay away from this man, he's abusive" and "that guy raped so and so". A police officer is never spoken to, a man is never told about it, because we don't feel comfortable discussing this stuff with men (which most police officers are). Some of the biggest assholes never see a jail cell. I even had a friend raped by a police officer on Prince Edward Island. He's still on the force. I had another friend in the military who was sexually assaulted while deployed. She won't report it to the forces.

This is not Soc 101, this is someone's reality. Different people have different realities. And I know talking about it makes people uncomfortable when they see that what they thought was universal truth is not truth for everyone. The white man's Canada is different than anyone else's Canada, even the white woman's Canada... hell, even the white homosexual male's Canada is a completely different Canada... it's not the great country that the media says it is. I'm not saying you're a bad person because you are white and male but there are some things you don't see because you won the genetic lottery and don't have the misfortune of experiencing different things.

One good thing about the Internet is that these stories and views get out, because the white man's media won't cover it. Although the bad thing, the premise of this thread, is that cyberspace has the same power structure as meatspace, so violence is still a thing.

Also, one of my good friends was on CBC in the Voters of Canada series, talking about prisoner's rights, which is what she spoke about. Maybe where you are, prison is better but where I am from, prisons are overcrowded, dirty, people with mental health issues get locked up and denied their medication, people die in their cells. It's not pretty.

https://youtu.be/xzK9eGejm6Q

And the past decade has been hell on this region. I lived in Vancouver and wanted to stay there, I only came home because my mother got sick... and she's dying and had the misfortune of getting sick in the summer (old advice here "don't get sick in the summer") so the care she needed was delayed.

My experiences with harassment made me angry and more of an "SJW". I've been involved in activism for a few years now since 2011 and, my views changed completely and I do get passionate. In part, the only people who showed me empathy and compassion were black activists and LGBT activists, and they shared their stories with me, their positions not being that much different from my "rant", all those people can't all be crazy and ranting (BTW your choice of the word "rant" is quite problematic, considering whenever marginalized groups talk about their oppression, it is dismissed as a "rant" hence not to be taken seriously). Sorry. I posted in haste, seeing a defense of what I see as a fundamentally flawed and unfair justice system and a racist and misogynistic culture. My apologies. I did not word it correctly and only skimmed your post quick on a mobile phone and did not really take in the whole content.

AJL
05-16-2016, 02:13 PM
While websites such as Wikipedia are very well peer-edited

I am not sure if you missed the ongoing Wiki-edits scandals, such as when it turned out that representatives from government agencies were cynically editing entries for PR purposes (http://www.channel4.com/news/wikipedia-edit-changes-lee-rigby-charles-de-menezes-damilola), or when some Wikipedia staffers were offering to edit pages to companies' and individuals' favour for money (http://www.dailydot.com/news/sarah-stierch-wikimedia-wikipedia-paid-editing-scandal/)?