R1b-L513 SNP Pack for 11-13 Combo types

[TigerMW]

I meant to post this a couple of weeks ago but I've been trying to research the tree and just haven't gotten everything put together so I thought better get the details I out regardless. Unfortunately, the introductory price has already passed and this is now $119.

Anyone who is L513+ or one of its equivalents such as CTS5396+ or Z249+ (from Geno 2) should consider this pack. DF1 and S215 are other names (synonyms) for L513.

Also people who are "11-13" should consider this. "11-13" stands for DYS406s1=11 or above and DYS617=13 or above. These are fairly slow moving STRs. A good 90% plus of R1b people with this STR signature are L513+. Of course, if your matches screens are loaded with L513+ people that is another indicator. Get help if in doubt and post here any questions.

FTDNA says R1b-L513 SNP Pack has 139 SNPs. I've requested a couple additional but I don't know if they will be added.

Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
L513, CTS3087, CTS5396, Z17299, FGC32661, A8, A3, Z17817, A1063, A1067, Z17813, Z17815, Z17816, ZS4576, ZS4578, BY2634, S5979, S5982, S5990, S5992, Z17623, Z18491, FGC13495, FGC13500, FGC13508, Z17819, L577, S7834, S7835, Z21260, Z21262, A7, ZS349, ZS352, Z17911, Z17912, Z16343, Z16345, Z16347, Z16855, ZS347, Z20655, BY2598, FGC9800, Z16337, FGC32571, FGC9804, FGC9822, Z16340, FGC9784, FGC9793, FGC9798, FGC9807, FGC9811, BY15, FGC9776, S5668, ZS5210, BY182, BY404, Z16372, Z16377, Z16383, BY16, FGC11788, Z16386, Z17801, Z17807, Z16390, Z16392, Z16395, BY359, BY360, L1333, BY17, BY553, BY554, ZW02, ZW04, BY3092, Z17909, Z16400, Z16403, CTS11744, CTS6621, Z23532, Z23533, Z23534, Z23535, Z23506, Z23507, FGC16870, Z23516, FGC13437, L908, S6365, BY3093, Z21267, Z21269, BY2630, Z18082, Z18490, BY183, Z16407, Z17624, Z17626, Z17627, Z17628, BY390

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
M2775, BY416, A1075, BY184, BY651, L193, BY2745, BY615, Z18489, Z18059, Z17827, Z17828, Z17833, Z18060, Z18065, Z16854, P66, Z16363, Z16409, Z16404, BY402, BY616, BY620, BY451, FGC13503, BY3155, BY3156, A5863, A5864, FGC13503

Anyone can look at the any FTDNA SNP Pack's SNP lists by going to ADVANCED TESTS.
1. Log in to your myFTDNA dashboard web page.
2. Click on the blue UPGRADES button at the top of the page.
3. On the ORDER ADDITIONAL TESTS page, click on the blue BUY NOW in the ADVANCED TESTS box.
4. On the SELECT A PRODUCT page, select SNP PACK in the TEST TYPE drop down menu
5. When the SNP Pack list pops up, click on the name of the pack you are interested in and the SNP list pops up.
5a. If you want to order you will click on ADD then ORDER have to click through a prerequistes warning message. FTDNA has not changed their cancellation and refund policies but they want to make sure that on the Advanced Tests menu you think twice about what you are ordering and get help as needed.

Generally, a Big Y tested person does not need this, but there may be an exception or two. When in doubt, ask for help.

More info on L513 is at:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l513/about/background

[Mag Uidhir 6]

Mike,

Just got a BigY result for McCaffery #389364. He turned up as FGC9800+ which has become the default "terminal" SNP for FTDNA with respect to many of the Mag Uidhir kits.

The Big Tree as well as your discovery spreadsheet shows us a plethora of SNPs under Z16340. So I've often wondered at the ordering or listing of these SNPs within their respective blocks. Using my own kit as an example, I'm Z16337+ (tested by YSEQ and by FTDNA) as are 7 of the BigY/FGC kits listed on the tree....and yet, FTDNA refers to me as FGC9800.

So I wonder if this is a quality check by FTDNA rather than a difference in labeling. Confusing to say the least.

McCaffrey email notified to forward raw data to you and Alex both.

break

On a happy note, I recently queried many personal matches to test for R-L513 SNP Pack in an attempt to widen the branching base and have received orders for 12 Packs as well as gained 9 new members last month (3 so far in Oct) for a total of 143, gotta love growth!

[TigerMW]

Mike,

Just got a BigY result for McCaffery #389364. He turned up as FGC9800+ which has become the default "terminal" SNP for FTDNA with respect to many of the Mag Uidhir kits.

The Big Tree as well as your discovery spreadsheet shows us a plethora of SNPs under Z16340. So I've often wondered at the ordering or listing of these SNPs within their respective blocks. Using my own kit as an example, I'm Z16337+ (tested by YSEQ and by FTDNA) as are 7 of the BigY/FGC kits listed on the tree....and yet, FTDNA refers to me as FGC9800.

So I wonder if this is a quality check by FTDNA rather than a difference in labeling. Confusing to say the least.
..
It's the haplogroup labeling which is driven by the haplotree. In other words, it is the haplotree that needs updating. They've started to update the haplotree but there are several errors in their updates and some items missing.

I've got that Z16337, BY2598 and BY3085 are all downstream of FGC9800 along with P66. FTDNA doesn't have that define yet. Part of the reason could be their need for proofs as I did submit those as unique branches. However, they are looking for public branches and therefore must have at least two individuals with positive results for the SNP to be added to the haplotree. We still have a lot of work to do. I did this with ISOGG and it took half a year. I think we'll be working on the FTDNA haplotree for half a year. The good news is the R1b-L513 SNP Pack will speed the process making the proofs easy and clear.

[Mag Uidhir 6]

Thank you sir, let me know if there is some compilation assistance I can provide.

[Jon]

Any interesting pack results back yet? I'm 17817 now, clustered with a Davidson as well as some Meeks, and a bigger Black/Campbell group further downstream. It's good to be placed, but I can see the attraction of the Big Y for sure in terms of individuality.

[Mag Uidhir 6]

Jon,

Among my guys (R-L513-A2) we're seeing a pile up at FGC9800+. Over 16 guys have submitted L513 SNP packs...waiting on the remaining 4 or 5. The good news is: We have several "Main line" branches (McGuire, McAuley, McManus, McMahon, etc...) that may help ID SNP age vs pedigree chart branching for individual septs.

I certainly wish that SNP counting were accurate....this whole mess would be so much easier.

[Jon]

Tell me about it...this has thrown a spanner in my works too. My ancestry is 'classic' L193, i.e. Ayrshire/Galloway...but then my 17817 group seems to be more central Scotland, and even into Perthshire and Argyll (Davidson, Meek, plus a bigger Campbell group). I'm still thinking this may have Argyll links ultimately (especially Campbell), with movement south over time. That would make a link to the Irish groups you guys are seeing more logical. Time will tell :)

[MacUalraig]

Tell me about it...this has thrown a spanner in my works too. My ancestry is 'classic' L193, i.e. Ayrshire/Galloway...but then my 17817 group seems to be more central Scotland, and even into Perthshire and Argyll (Davidson, Meek, plus a bigger Campbell group). I'm still thinking this may have Argyll links ultimately (especially Campbell), with movement south over time. That would make a link to the Irish groups you guys are seeing more logical. Time will tell :)

Does the Davidson have a specific parish paper trail? The name is quite widespread, concentrated in the NE but still common in Ayrshire. There's a bunch of them in M222 I'm working with but none of them know where they come from so they aren't much help to me.

This is the county level distribution rankings sorted by relative density:
ID County Actual per 100,000 <
66 Nairnshire 134 1511
46 Aberdeenshire 3414 1267
60 Kincardineshire 371 1045
55 Dumfriesshire 560 871
72 Roxburghshire 445 846
65 Moray 361 800
50 Banffshire 430 717
47 Angus 1648 613
51 Berwickshire 198 561
73 Selkirkshire 146 554
53 Caithness 202 507
59 Inverness 438 505
7 Cumberland 1140 455
62 Kinross-shire 33 450
58 Fifeshire 721 418
74 Shetland Isles 120 403
77 Wigtownshire 153 396
64 Midlothian 1513 388
26 Northumberland 1678 387
49 Ayrshire 808 371
69 Perthshire 474 363
57 East Lothian 130 337
68 Peebleshire 46 336
61 Kirkcudbrightshire 130 308
63 Lanarkshire 2585 275
67 Orkney Isles 87 271
78 West Lothian 108 247
52 Bute 38 215
71 Ross & Cromarty 159 200
54 Clackmannanshire 48 200
70 Renfrewshire 431 191
75 Stirlingshire 203 189
56 Dunbartonshire 137 175
76 Sutherland 35 156
11 Co. Durham 1209 139
48 Argyllshire 65 80
18 Isle of Man 34 63
39 Westmorland 37 58
85 Flintshire 39 49
42 York 27 47
21 Lancashire 1119 32
44 Yorks N.Riding 101 30
24 Middlesex 856 30
20 Kent 295 30
5 Cheshire 194 30
43 Yorks E.Riding 91 29
35 Surrey 423 29
14 Hampshire 131 25
45 Yorks W.Riding 435 20
93 Guernsey 6 19
29 Nottinghamshire 76 19
27 Norfolk 86 19
8 Derbyshire 85 19
84 Denbighshire 19 17
25 City of London 8 16
23 Lincolnshire 65 14
19 Isle of Wight 9 12
3 Berkshire 24 11
86 Glamorgan 49 10
83 Carmarthenshire 12 10
36 Sussex 49 10
33 Suffolk 36 10
12 Essex 55 10
90 Pembrokeshire 8 9
88 Montgomeryshire 6 9
13 Gloucestershire 51 9
9 Devonshire 57 9
94 Jersey 4 8
30 Oxfordshire 15 8
15 Herefordshire 9 8
2 Buckinghamshire 14 8
40 Wiltshire 18 7
38 Warwickshire 53 7
37 Staffordshire 68 7
32 Shropshire 17 7
34 Somerset 27 6
16 Hertfordshire 13 6
10 Dorset 11 6
4 Cambridgeshire 12 6
41 Worcestershire 17 4
28 Northamptonshire 10 4
22 Leicestershire 13 4
6 Cornwall 12 4
89 Monmouthshire 4 2
82 Cardiganshire 1 1
81 Caernarvonshire 1 1
1 Bedfordshire 1 1

[Jon]

Thanks. I believe he's NE Scotland; but I'm Ayrshire, so the match might suggest otherwise.

[Dubhthach]

I see a Kernan in the Ireland project got his L513 bundle results -- he's R-FGC9822+

Obviously I had been tracking some Kernan's who were M222+/A259+, but I forgot there was also a Fermanagh family of the name, here's extract from Woulfe (1923)



Mac THIGHEARNÁIN—IV—M'Kiernane, M'Kemane, MacKiernan, MacKernan, MacCarnon, MacHarnon, Kiernan, Kernan, Kernon, and, by translation, Lord; 'son of Tighearnán' (diminutive of 'tighearna,' a lord); the name (1) of a branch of the O'Connors in Co. Roscommon, who are descended from Tighearnán, grandson of Turlough Mor O'Connor, King of Ireland; (2) of a Breifney family, of the same stock as the O'Rourkes, who were formerly chiefs of Tellach Dhunchadha, now the barony of Tullyhunco, in the west of Co. Cavan; and (3) of a Fermanagh family, of the same stock as the Maguires, who were formerly chiefs of Clann Fearghaile. See Mac Tighearnáin.