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whatthefami
10-01-2015, 03:35 PM
I wonder how many words are in azeri language that are not of iranian, turkic, arabic and of russian origin. Like words from the languages that were spoken before the influence of the above mentioned languages/cultures.

whatthefami
10-01-2015, 03:40 PM
Sorry if azeri is off topic in this thread :)

DMXX
10-01-2015, 04:28 PM
Thread split from here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5522-Caucasian-Sub-forum-in-the-International-Area&p=111867#post111867).

Interesting question. I have no knowledge regarding this.

Anyone (Caspian) know if any Caucasian languages have left any influences on the Azeri dialects spoken in the Republic (e.g. Daghestani or other NE Caucasian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Caucasian_languages#/media/File:Northeast_Caucasus_languages_map_en.svg))? In the event that there is, I'd be surprised if it extended south of the Aras into Iranian Azerbaijan.

whatthefami
10-02-2015, 06:08 PM
I heard from my friend that words like "it" (dog) mesha (woods) and goyn (sheep) are not of turkic or iranian origin
These words are used by Iranian Azeris aswell

Caspian
10-02-2015, 07:59 PM
I heard from my friend that words like "it" (dog) mesha (woods) and goyn (sheep) are not of turkic or iranian origin
These words are used by Iranian Azeris aswell

Absolutely no. it (dog) and qoyun (sheep) are Turkic words. They are even Proto-Turkic. I'm not sure for meşə, but it seems Turkic. These names are common in all Turkic languages.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/koyun
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/it#Azeri


Numbers, names of animals, names of body parts, names about nature and geography etc. are common in all Turkic languages.

whatthefami
10-02-2015, 08:10 PM
Hmm you are right

whatthefami
10-02-2015, 08:11 PM
Do you know any words then?

MfA
10-02-2015, 08:14 PM
I heard from my friend that words like "it" (dog) mesha (woods) and goyn (sheep) are not of turkic or iranian origin
These words are used by Iranian Azeris aswell

mesha is Iranic, Persian specifically:

Modern Persian bīşa/mīşa بيشه woods, forest << Middle Persian vēşag a.a.

http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=me%C5%9Fe&x=0&y=0

Caspian
10-02-2015, 08:17 PM
There are some words that derived from Armenian language in Azerbaijani Turkish. However, I don't know and I didn't hear any word that is from Caucasian languages in Azerbaijani Turkish.

Note: Meşə (Meşe) is derived from Persian according to Sevan Nişanyan.

Caspian
10-02-2015, 08:29 PM
I found a word that are not of Turkic, Arabic or Iranic origin. It is çay (tea) that derived from Sino-Tibetan languages. It is common in Azerbaijani and Anatolian Turkish.

Afshar
10-02-2015, 08:37 PM
I found a word that are not of Turkic, Arabic or Iranic origin. It is çay (tea) that derived from Sino-Tibetan languages. It is common in Azerbaijani and Anatolian Turkish.

Cay is a recent addition in most cultures so it cant be Turkic.
A while ago there was a research done by the Turkish language institute about foreign words in Turkish vocabulary, maybe there is something similar done??

Afshar
10-02-2015, 08:41 PM
6121
It is on Turkish wiki

Caspian
10-02-2015, 08:54 PM
These words are derived from Armenian language in Azerbaijani Turkish.

lavaş (a kind of bread)
xaç (cross) (haç in Anatolian Turkish)
xaçkar (khachkar) (an Armenian carved memorial stone)
əvəlik and əvəlik aşı(sorrel and a kind of meal)
Kətə (a kind of baked goods) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
cücü (insect)
kərənti (scythe)
ləcər (shameless woman)
tel (wire) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
palax (a kind of wild plant)
parç (waterpot)
pazı (beetroot) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.

I also found a word that derived from Georgian language.

Xingal or Xəngəl (Khinkali in Georgian) (a kind of meal)

I thought that this were derived from Armenian.

whatthefami
10-02-2015, 09:11 PM
These words are derived from Armenian language in Azerbaijani Turkish.

lavaş (a kind of bread)
xaç (cross) (haç in Anatolian Turkish)
xaçkar (khachkar) (an Armenian carved memorial stone)
əvəlik and əvəlik aşı(sorrel and a kind of meal)
Kətə (a kind of baked goods) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
cücü (insect)
kərənti (scythe)
ləcər (shameless woman)
tel (wire) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
palax (a kind of wild plant)
parç (waterpot)
pazı (beetroot) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.

I also found a word that derived from Georgian language.

Xingal (Khinkali in Georgian) (a kind of meal)

I thought that this were derived from Armenian.

Thank you! Very informative interesting enough that there are almost no significant words left from previous languages neither in azeri rep or iranian azeri

whatthefami
10-02-2015, 09:17 PM
Most of the words are pretty new loanwords

Afshar
10-03-2015, 02:37 PM
These words are derived from Armenian language in Azerbaijani Turkish.

lavaş (a kind of bread)
xaç (cross) (haç in Anatolian Turkish)
xaçkar (khachkar) (an Armenian carved memorial stone)
əvəlik and əvəlik aşı(sorrel and a kind of meal)
Kətə (a kind of baked goods) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
cücü (insect)
kərənti (scythe)
ləcər (shameless woman)
tel (wire) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.
palax (a kind of wild plant)
parç (waterpot)
pazı (beetroot) It is common in Anatolian Turkish.

I also found a word that derived from Georgian language.

Xingal or Xəngəl (Khinkali in Georgian) (a kind of meal)

I thought that this were derived from Armenian.

That is debatable. I dont think some of those words are armenian

DMXX
10-03-2015, 03:00 PM
Taking a look at Caspian's word list...



xaç (cross) (haç in Anatolian Turkish)


Same word has the same meaning in Modern Persian (using the Azeri variant of the Latin script, it would be pronounced as "xəç").



cücü (insect)


This word and meaning is wholly the same in Modern Persian.

Of course, common words with Modern Persian says nothing about its' origins... I actually wouldn't be surprised if these words were in fact Turkic in origin (other common words between Azeri dialects, Anatolian Turkish and Modern Persian which are definitely Turkic include meyve, yavaş, kuçuk)

whatthefami
10-03-2015, 05:55 PM
What about the word "mişad" (bother)?

whatthefami
10-03-2015, 05:56 PM
Or bacı (sister)

Afshar
10-03-2015, 06:44 PM
Baci is definitely Turkic, mirsad sounds persian

Caspian
10-04-2015, 12:02 PM
Baci is definitely Turkic, mirsad sounds persian

Bacı is borrowed from Mongolian according to Sevan Nişanyan.

Afshar
10-04-2015, 01:49 PM
Bacı is borrowed from Mongolian according to Sevan Nişanyan.

U cant rely on that source only :)

whatthefami
10-04-2015, 05:56 PM
It does seem to have mongolian "sound" in it

Afshar
10-04-2015, 07:17 PM
Yes it has, but what I meant is that it could also be the other way around

whatthefami
10-08-2015, 12:11 PM
alright so here's an off-topic question since I didn't know how to make a new thread.

Does anyone know how and when did the Caucasian men's traditional costume ''chokha'' and the dance Lezginka arrive into Iranian Azerbaijan? Before arrival of Iranian tribes to NW Iran there were Caucasian tribes in the region but I think those two mentioned above are relatively new.

from Wikipedia '' It has been in wide use among Georgians from the 9th century until the 1920s''

Padre Organtino
11-09-2015, 04:08 PM
It is a borrowing from Circassians. Chokha was worn in Western Georgia. Particularly among Svans and Mingrelians. Kakhetians (nobility) adopted the dress relatively late.

FYI "Khinkali" is not of Georgian origin and has roots in Dagestan. Although what they call Khinkal is quite different from Khinakali.

George
11-09-2015, 04:22 PM
Are these people relevant at all? === https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udi_people#History

Padre Organtino
11-09-2015, 08:53 PM
Are these people relevant at all? === https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udi_people#History

They are my partial ancestors as Kakhetians descend from an amalgamation of expanding Kartvelians and local Caucasian Albanian population. Udis are a remnant of those "Albanians". Their language is distantly related to that of Lezgins who are on the biggest ethnic groups of Dagestan.

rafael
08-11-2016, 08:27 PM
does anyone else find it bit weird that even though Azeri turkish and Istanbul Turkish are both oghuz languages but yet the tatar language which is not is more similar to azeri than turkish is to azeri?

Afshar
08-12-2016, 07:20 AM
Which tatar language are you referring to?

rafael
08-20-2016, 03:33 AM
Which tatar language are you referring to?

Crimean tatar for instance

basmaci
08-20-2016, 05:36 PM
Taking a look at Caspian's word list...



Same word has the same meaning in Modern Persian (using the Azeri variant of the Latin script, it would be pronounced as "xəç").

Haç is of persian origin http://tdk.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_gts&arama=gts&guid=TDK.GTS.57b891d2b617f8.00791002
this is the official dictionary of Turkish Language Association, its says also the origins of the words
http://tdk.gov.tr/index.php?option=com_lehceler&arama=lehceler&guid=TDK.LHC.57b893d4763da5.54308566
and this one is the Turkish dialects dictionary, have fun B)
https://s4.postimg.org/gs76l5svx/dolm.png

basmaci
08-20-2016, 05:46 PM
hey wait, why only Azerbaycan has not the word Mantı ? kıymalı hamır yemeği :D i know they have this dish, but what they calling for that ?
https://s4.postimg.org/yp8hh2ajx/mantu.png

rafael
08-21-2016, 06:01 AM
My maternal family members are native Bakuvians and my grandmother uses words like öy instead of house or nädy? instead of nädir? = what is it? Almost all the words ended with Letter Y. I remember seeing that the word Öy for house is old turkic which has already died out right? Didn't khazars speak a branch of old turkic? I'm just wondering what is the connection between those two and how did the old words end up in Baku where the spoken language is oghuz. Could it just be as simple as the word just passed from one generation to another?