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Afshar
10-02-2015, 08:27 PM
Arab cluster Q-m25

In the Q project on ftdna there seems to be an distinct Arab cluster of which some tested positive for the m25 snp but nothing more downstream. They are dispersed over the arabian peninsula covering Bahrain, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, having different surnames. As I didnt and cannot contact them I will put it out here to see if there are New theories on their Origin. Based on str data this cluster seems to have a common ancestor in the last millenium. The closest matches on 67 markers are an Iraqi (trmca 4000) who has also m25 positive and me l712* (trmca 6000). Шад please correct me if the trmca is wrong :)
Шад had a theorie about their origin
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2664-Q-M25-has-117-valid-private-SNPs-according-to-YFull&p=99224&viewfull=1#post99224
New insights are welcome

Afshar
10-15-2015, 04:50 PM
Another possible explanation for the Arab cluster, sounds more logic.
Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elteber

Afshar
01-15-2016, 08:27 AM
Most names end with al-bahrani and they are from Al-ahsa/Hofuf regions, maybe some arabic member can see a connection. Not all arab q-m25 seem genealogically related based on 37/67str.

Afshar
06-05-2016, 05:07 PM
The so called arab cluster is getting crowded on yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F5005/.
Origins of samples are not mentioned but i guess there is some uyghur, mongol and arab between them.

Шад
06-06-2016, 06:41 AM
The so called arab cluster is getting crowded on yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F5005/.
Origins of samples are not mentioned but i guess there is some uyghur, mongol and arab between them.

Yes. You are absolutely right. We can assume this branch as Turkic or proto-Turkic.

Afshar
06-06-2016, 07:30 AM
Yes. You are absolutely right. We can assume this branch as Turkic or proto-Turkic.

What kind of connection do you propose between these samples?

Afshar
05-04-2017, 08:03 PM
Second Arab BigY results came in. All BigYs ( 2 Arab 1 Mongol) are a BigY match (4 snp difference). Hope he will submit his data to yfull.
Non matching snps seem nonsense maybe the quality is low.

Afshar
06-08-2017, 09:32 PM
2 interesting submissions on yfull.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F5005/
The bz1010 is most likely a gulf Arab who also shows up on BigY matches, the other id:YF09830 however is negative for the Mongol or Arab snps and does not show up on the BigY list, maybe a non ftdna submission. Would be interesting to know his origin

Afshar
07-31-2017, 07:45 PM
Trmca with the arab guys is 2600 years as calculated by yfull. I suspect he is from Iran

Nasser
08-13-2017, 02:45 PM
Hello Afshar I am the owner of most of the Arabian qm25 lineages and I'm the one who submitted them to yfull..can you tell who belongs to 9830? I don't think he is Arabian because we didn't test that person.

Afshar
08-13-2017, 05:16 PM
Hello Afshar I am the owner of most of the Arabian qm25 lineages and I'm the one who submitted them to yfull..can you tell who belongs to 9830? I don't think he is Arabian because we didn't test that person.
I dont know who he is but most probably not an Ftdna submission.

Afshar
08-13-2017, 07:25 PM
I suspected the iranian kit who is classified as 4385 but has distinct str profile as thearab guys, but he has not done bigy. Do you see new bigy matches for your kits?

Nasser
08-16-2017, 09:45 AM
I think the only matches on their big y is you and a person from mongolia

Afshar
08-16-2017, 12:47 PM
Then I suspect he is tested at a different company

Шад
08-19-2017, 01:13 PM
YF09830 India Punjabi
https://yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ992/

Afshar
08-19-2017, 03:43 PM
That is interesting considering the trmca lower limit is within the period Muhammad bin Qasim's conquests in punjab

Afshar
08-19-2017, 03:52 PM
YF09830 India Punjabi
https://yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ992/

Is it Malik from the project?

Шад
08-20-2017, 06:00 PM
Is it Malik from the project?

No. It is an acadimic sample.

Afshar
08-20-2017, 07:13 PM
No. It is an acadimic sample.

Can you share which paper its from?

Шад
08-21-2017, 12:11 PM
The South Asian Genome
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0102645

Afshar
09-22-2017, 07:58 PM
It is also interesting to see that the that subclade L715 is present in the northern and central parts of asia whereas yp4385 is present in the southern parts of asia and the middle east. Only outliers are probably uighur, mongol and han samples of yp4385 origin. Wonder what this geographical split means

Dude
04-13-2018, 04:18 AM
I am one of them, Q-M25, but living in the Arabian peninsula because my great grandparents migrated here from Iran due to financial difficulties. I assume the rest of the guys in Bahrain, Qatar and Saudi Arabia with Q-M25 migrated from Iran too over the past 200 years. The highest concentration of Q-M25 is on Golestan, Iran so it has nothing to do with Arab, I guess

Afshar
04-13-2018, 06:39 AM
I am one of them, Q-M25, but living in the Arabian peninsula because my great grandparents migrated here from Iran due to financial difficulties. I assume the rest of the guys in Bahrain, Qatar and Saudi Arabia with Q-M25 migrated from Iran too over the past 200 years. The highest concentration of Q-M25 is on Golestan, Iran so it has nothing to do with Arab, I guess

Yes that is correct, but there are also a few further inland, and some in Iraq. DO you know from where in Iran your ancestors came?

Afshar
04-16-2018, 08:46 AM
On FTDNA an Iranian individual has tested Q-F4741, which is parallel to Q-BZ1010 (arab cluster). Hope he will upload to Yfull to see some TRMCA

Afshar
12-27-2019, 08:02 PM
The so called arab cluster is getting crowded on yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F5005/.
Origins of samples are not mentioned but i guess there is some uyghur, mongol and arab between them.

Not thatit matters much, but the uyghur kits are probably yugur who live more inland, fled there after the fall of the uygur khaganate

parasar
03-08-2020, 07:02 PM
That is interesting considering the trmca lower limit is within the period Muhammad bin Qasim's conquests in punjab


Yes. You are absolutely right. We can assume this branch as Turkic or proto-Turkic.

What is the opinion on this sample from the Swat valley that predates the historical Arab and Turki movements into South Asia?
M30g Q1a1b1 1000-800 BCE I12134 Q1a1b1-M25>L712>F4747>F5005*

Afshar
03-08-2020, 09:06 PM
What is the opinion on this sample from the Swat valley that predates the historical Arab and Turki movements into South Asia?
M30g Q1a1b1 1000-800 BCE I12134 Q1a1b1-M25>L712>F4747>F5005*

I8506 1738-1623 calBCE (337520 BP, PSUAMS-5275) Steppe_MLBA_oBMAC Uzbekistan T Q1a1b1 belongs also to the same clade. Probably the same line

Afshar
03-10-2020, 03:02 PM
A saudi has uploaded his kit to yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F5005/

Afshar
06-07-2020, 07:11 PM
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ992/
All the arab samples seem a very recent introduction. Wonder if the samples https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-11-288 from this paper matches these guys.

Kmak111
06-07-2020, 07:42 PM
Most probably turkic soldiers in arabian countries.

AlFares04
06-08-2020, 07:24 AM
Its an interesting Arabic cluster, separate from other branches too. The number of kits upgrading to bigy is increasing and many who matches them still didn't upgrade whom we think are on the same line. There are currently around 21 equivalent snps on BZ1010 level, which means it might be even be older than 700 years old.

Lupriac
06-11-2020, 02:14 PM
What do you think regarding the origins of Q-L275 in the middle east and among Arabs?

AlFares04
06-15-2020, 05:08 AM
From what I read about the origins of Q-L275, it is thought to be from West or Central Aisa. Based on this study:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313459023_Phylogeography_of_human_Y-chromosome_haplogroup_Q3-L275_from_an_academiccitizen_science_collaboration

Its seems afterwards it moved further toward Middle East

Afshar
06-17-2020, 07:45 PM
Its an interesting Arabic cluster, separate from other branches too. The number of kits upgrading to bigy is increasing and many who matches them still didn't upgrade whom we think are on the same line. There are currently around 21 equivalent snps on BZ1010 level, which means it might be even be older than 700 years old.

The paper I posted on the previous page adresses this clade as central asian or even links to sumerian, which I think is not the case. Even Iraqi samples seem to concentrate around the coastline of the persian gulf (maybe they are also marsh arabs?). It would be interesting to get more samples to bigY, and I hope we will also get some lebanese (is present in shiite muslims) samples to see how they relate to this cluster.