PDA

View Full Version : Question: Haplogroup U4c in ancient samples



Rafe
10-25-2015, 04:51 AM
Has haplogroup U4c been found in any ancient culture? I understand that haplogroup U, as a whole, is associated with hunter-gatherers. But when it comes to U4 or U4c specifically, who had them? Western hunter gatheres? Eastern HG?...

Tolan
10-25-2015, 10:17 AM
U4c1 is found in two ancient genome of Bell Beaker:
Bell Beaker Karsdorf [KAR 51] (Germany) 2314-2278 BC
Bell Beaker Karsdorf [KAR 52] (Germany) 2083-2042 BC

and in
Bredtoftegård [Bt1] Denmark 1500-1300 BC

U4c1a was found in Rise 512 (allentoft et al, 2015), an Armenian dating from 1000BC.

Macura
10-31-2015, 11:20 AM
Region of modern Republic of Serbia seems to have significant number of U4

Rafe
08-06-2017, 10:42 PM
According to 23andme's updated maternal lineage reports, U4c1 was born 2,500 ago. If correct, then that means the two ancient German samples mentioned by Tolan were just a few generations apart from the first U4c1 woman.

Tolan
08-23-2017, 02:47 AM
According to 23andme's updated maternal lineage reports, U4c1 was born 2,500 ago. If correct, then that means the two ancient German samples mentioned by Tolan were just a few generations apart from the first U4c1 woman.

They are mistaken about a few thousand years ago!

Now, They give the proportion among customers 23andMe:
1 in 380 (0.26%)

and their comments: U4c1 is relatively common among 23andMe customers. :confused:

I don't have the same definition of the word "common"!

Rafe
08-25-2017, 09:25 PM
They are mistaken about a few thousand years ago!

I agree that 2,500 sounds awfully recent (which is what makes it so exciting), but I've never seen another estimate. Which ones do you know?

Tolan
08-26-2017, 03:55 AM
I agree that 2,500 sounds awfully recent (which is what makes it so exciting), but I've never seen another estimate. Which ones do you know?

More than 4,300 years since one U4c1 bell beaker was discovered dating from this period

Rafe
08-26-2017, 09:24 AM
More than 4,300 years since one U4c1 bell beaker was discovered dating from this period

Oh, you are right. For some reason, I was reading those "BC"'s as "YA" (years ago).

Rafe
08-03-2018, 08:13 AM
There's now a paper linking U4c1 to Yamnaya:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/08/a-closer-look-at-maternal-origins-of.html

Kristiina
08-03-2018, 09:14 AM
The recent paper "On the genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus" detected U4c1 in late Maykop kurgans.

Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ003.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1,
Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ002.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1 (yDNA L),
Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ001.A01(SA6002.A01) c. 3200 BC U4c1

Yamnaya U4c1 sample from Ukraine is dated to c. 2847–2574 BC.

Generalissimo
08-03-2018, 09:59 AM
The recent paper "On the genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus" detected U4c1 in late Maykop kurgans.

Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ003.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1,
Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ002.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1 (yDNA L),
Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ001.A01(SA6002.A01) c. 3200 BC U4c1

Yamnaya U4c1 sample from Ukraine is dated to c. 2847–2574 BC.

Obviously this is a signal of steppe (EHG) admixture in Maykop, not a signal of southern ancestry in Yamnaya.

Tolan
08-03-2018, 11:20 AM
Obviously this is a signal of steppe (EHG) admixture in Maykop, not a signal of southern ancestry in Yamnaya.

There is a good chance that U4c1 is from the Caucasus.
The hunter-gatherers of Caucasus can't be ignored in the Yamnaya...

Generalissimo
08-03-2018, 11:24 AM
There is a good chance that U4c1 is from the Caucasus.
The hunter-gatherers of Caucasus can't be ignored in the Yamnaya...

I doubt that Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers carried any U4.