PDA

View Full Version : 23&Me Vs. DNA.LAND



Barellalee
10-26-2015, 02:19 AM
Okay, I Tested with 23&Me back in 2013. My GEDmatch Results affirm what 23&Me has to say for me, but I recently did the DNA LAND Transfer, and had a question. I'm half Italian, and on 23&Me this side is coming out at 23.3% Italian, with the bulk of the rest as Broadly Southern European, and a bit of Broadly European. On DNA LAND I get a large Southern European Score, but alongside a 12%+ Levantine/Ashkenazi one. I don't understand this, as there is no signal of Ashkenazi/Levantine Admixture on 23&Me or on GEDmatch, and I do not have any DNA Matches who are Jewish or in the Near or Middle East. Is it possible that this score is due to the Neolithic or maybe to the similar DNA between Italians and the Ashkenazi (as it is inferred that a large percent of Ashkenazi DNA comes from Roman Era Italic Converts), or perhaps a mix of the two?

MonkeyDLuffy
10-26-2015, 02:38 AM
For south Asians and South Central Asians I found DNA.Land much much better than 23&me. The added central asian category did a really good job at separating west asian ancestry in South Asians. On 23&me all I got was 95-96% SA and 2% Euro, which well doesnt explain much.

bored
10-26-2015, 03:46 AM
23andme's Ancestry Composition tool is utterly useless for South Asians. I agree that dna.land is better.

bored
10-26-2015, 03:48 AM
I think some South Europeans get Ashkenazi/Levantine becauase of their high ENF.

primo.lattanzio
03-29-2016, 12:10 PM
I got almost 49% AJ/Levantine in DNA.Land, in MyOrigin I'have not J Diaspora and in in Gedmatch I have very few Jewish matches also if many oracles often list some Jewish population.
DNA.Land with AJ/Levantine points out to ancestral levantine in the east mediterranean, in general.

anglesqueville
03-29-2016, 12:18 PM
I think some South Europeans get Ashkenazi/Levantine becauase of their high ENF.

I've already read something like that somewhere, perhaps on the facebook page of DNALand.

dnoone
03-29-2016, 02:12 PM
How about an admix test where Ashkenazis got Southern European instead of other way around? I think some figures in the industry have open political agendas and accuracy is a casualty.
Given these agendas publicly stated do people think these scores are an accident?


http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/

AJL
03-29-2016, 02:45 PM
How about an admix test where Ashkenazis got Southern European instead of other way around? I think some figures in the industry have open political agendas and accuracy is a casualty.
Given these agendas publicly stated do people think these scores are an accident?


http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/

Where in that article do you see an "openly stated public agenda?" Sorry, but you're sounding kind of paranoid here.

dnoone
04-01-2016, 10:09 PM
Would happily reply if free speech were guaranteed. Otherwise will keep my thoughts to myself.

AJL
04-01-2016, 11:12 PM
The Terms of Service (http://www.anthrogenica.com/faq.php) lay out what speech is and is not considered acceptable, guide yourself accordingly.

vettor
04-02-2016, 03:34 AM
I've already read something like that somewhere, perhaps on the facebook page of DNALand.

i have


Ancestry Composition

South European (64.74%)
North/central European (26.88%)
Southwestern European (5.19%)
Other (3.19%)


no Ashkenazi and I am 65% south european ..............I think people are fabricating ideas because they do not like what they see

Táltos
04-02-2016, 02:40 PM
i have


Ancestry Composition

South European (64.74%)
North/central European (26.88%)
Southwestern European (5.19%)
Other (3.19%)


no Ashkenazi and I am 65% south european ..............I think people are fabricating ideas because they do not like what they see

Maybe because you're northern Italian? My mom has ancestry from Calabria. I do know that DNA Land results are topsy turvy a bit for the kits I uploaded. My mom who gets a pretty big dose of 22 or 23% Asia Minor from FTDNA ( don't remember the % too pressed for time to look them up). She has hardly any Middle Eastern form 23andme. DNA Land on the other hand gives her 9.99% Levantine/Ashkenazi, not found (meaning Jewish) at the commercial companies. GEDmatch she will get some of these percentages depending on the calculator.

Myself on the other hand scores both Ashkenazi and Asia Minor/Middle Eastern between 23andme and FTDNA. I have lots of Jewish matches. DNA Land I don't have any percent of Levantine/Ashkenazi. Nor do I have any Jewish matches at DNA Land. I hardly have any matches at DNA Land. The only consistent thing I can see between FTDNA and 23andme is in conservative view my mom's and my Unassigned actually seems to correlate with the amount of Asia Minor we have at FTDNA.

vettor
04-02-2016, 05:01 PM
Maybe because you're northern Italian? My mom has ancestry from Calabria. I do know that DNA Land results are topsy turvy a bit for the kits I uploaded. My mom who gets a pretty big dose of 22 or 23% Asia Minor from FTDNA ( don't remember the % too pressed for time to look them up). She has hardly any Middle Eastern form 23andme. DNA Land on the other hand gives her 9.99% Levantine/Ashkenazi, not found (meaning Jewish) at the commercial companies. GEDmatch she will get some of these percentages depending on the calculator.

Myself on the other hand scores both Ashkenazi and Asia Minor/Middle Eastern between 23andme and FTDNA. I have lots of Jewish matches. DNA Land I don't have any percent of Levantine/Ashkenazi. Nor do I have any Jewish matches at DNA Land. I hardly have any matches at DNA Land. The only consistent thing I can see between FTDNA and 23andme is in conservative view my mom's and my Unassigned actually seems to correlate with the amount of Asia Minor we have at FTDNA.

I also get 22% of Asia minor from ftdna myOrigins

I get 0.2% ashkenazi from 23andme .............it only appears on the Chr6 health part of the bar and a bit on ChrX

No matches on DNA land for me

There must be another method they pull out the ashkenazi from one's DNA

Táltos
04-02-2016, 05:56 PM
I also get 22% of Asia minor from ftdna myOrigins

I get 0.2% ashkenazi from 23andme .............it only appears on the Chr6 health part of the bar and a bit on ChrX

No matches on DNA land for me

There must be another method they pull out the ashkenazi from one's DNA
Here is their ancestry pops for DNA Land. https://dna.land/static/ancestry/js/ancestry.report.js

"ASHKENAZI-EMED" : [
"Israel", "Cyprus", "Northern Cyprus",
"Malta", "Silicy", //FIXME
"Poland", "Ukraine", "Belarus", "Lithuania"
Now Dr. McDonald had said that Cypriot fits my mom well because he did not have any samples from Albania, and these guys have Northern Cyprus for this category. But they have Albania under Italy & Balkans category. Don't get me wrong Southern European is her largest component 53% at DNA Land, I'm just surprised she scored any of the Jewish category here.

vettor
04-02-2016, 09:12 PM
Here is their ancestry pops for DNA Land. https://dna.land/static/ancestry/js/ancestry.report.js

Now Dr. McDonald had said that Cypriot fits my mom well because he did not have any samples from Albania, and these guys have Northern Cyprus for this category. But they have Albania under Italy & Balkans category. Don't get me wrong Southern European is her largest component 53% at DNA Land, I'm just surprised she scored any of the Jewish category here.

thanks

Dr.Mcdonald placed me on the french-italian border , north of the town of Nice and with an association with "old north yugoslavia"..............I think he meant slovenia..........never knew what he meant.
I have little balkans ( less than 2% )

53% is low for southern European if she has a high % of Askenazi .............could it be sephatic ?

In these companies, the admixture of albania is nearly always associated with Greeks

AJL
04-03-2016, 12:53 AM
thanks

Dr.Mcdonald placed me on the french-italian border , north of the town of Nice and with an association with "old north yugoslavia"..............I think he meant slovenia..........never knew what he meant.

If I remember, we're almost autosomal twins with McDonald with me just lying a little to the east of you, and he put me around Genoa. But when I used a few different analyses I ended up around the Serbian/Croatian border a little south of Hungary, so I suspect for you he meant around Slovenia.

vettor
04-03-2016, 02:03 AM
If I remember, we're almost autosomal twins with McDonald with me just lying a little to the east of you, and he put me around Genoa. But when I used a few different analyses I ended up around the Serbian/Croatian border a little south of Hungary, so I suspect for you he meant around Slovenia.

Really !!!

this is what he gave me

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/233243-BGA3_zpsfeynm2tg.png (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/233243-BGA3_zpsfeynm2tg.png.html)

red and green dots on top of each other

and

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/233243-BGA2-2_zps8dd55f4e.png (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/233243-BGA2-2_zps8dd55f4e.png.html)

AJL
04-03-2016, 02:56 AM
I was just a tiny bit to the right of you.

Táltos
04-03-2016, 04:42 AM
thanks

Dr.Mcdonald placed me on the french-italian border , north of the town of Nice and with an association with "old north yugoslavia"..............I think he meant slovenia..........never knew what he meant.
I have little balkans ( less than 2% )

53% is low for southern European if she has a high % of Askenazi .............could it be sephatic ?

In these companies, the admixture of albania is nearly always associated with Greeks
Half of my mother's ancestry was from Calabria, the other half Colonial American. So her 53% should be just about right. Dr. McDonald never saw Jewish for her. He could fit other Middle Eastern pops and Causcaus region but no Jewish. Funny thing for me he never saw Jewish either. When he got new samples, I asked for another reading just because he had Polish ones. That time he found Sephardic (one of his new samples) for me.

Larth
04-29-2016, 04:43 PM
They are both inaccurate from a strictly scientific point of view.

L1983
05-19-2016, 08:57 AM
23andme (spec)

23andme
52.3% British and Irish
15.4% French and German
1.6% Scandinavian
0.1% Finnish
27.4% Broadly NW European
1.0% Iberian
0.9% Broadly Southern European
1.3% Broadly European

dna.land
North/central European 80%
South European 13% Balkan 12%
Italian 1.7%
Central Asian 4.2% Kalash 2.9%
Indo-Iranian 1.2%
Sardinian 1.6%
Finnish 1%

geebee
05-21-2016, 03:41 AM
23andMe


97.8% European

Northwestern European

43.1% British & Irish
21.4% French & German
0.4% Finnish
25.2% Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European

1.7% Iberian
0.8% Italian
2.4% Broadly Southern European

2.8% Broadly European

2.0% East Asian & Native American

2.0% Native American
0.1% Broadly East Asian & Native American

DNA.land

West Eurasian 98%

North/central European 54%
Southwestern European 18%
Italian 13%
Finnish 7.7%
Ambiguous 2.6%
Mid-Turkic 2.4%

Native American 1.9%

I've always thought 23andMe's 4.9% Southern European percentage was somewhat low. Actually, it had been higher until one of the updates. My father's increased at the same time as mine decreased -- his went from essentially nothing to 5.6%, so it's now higher than mine.

The thing is, my father has no known Southern European ancestry -- just German and British (mostly Scots-Irish), as far as we've found so far, back several generations. By contrast, my maternal grandmother was half-Spanish (Menorcan), which you'd think would put me closer to 12% than 5%. (Although, of course, 12.5% would just be average inheritance ... actual mileage may vary considerably.)

EDIT: Inserting "details" --

North/central European

Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands
Does not include: Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Piapoco in Colombia; Estonian in Estonia; Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France; Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain; Finnish in Finland and Gambian in Western Gambia

Southwestern European

Includes: Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France and Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain
Does not include: Algerian and Mozabite in Algeria; Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland and Italian/Bergamo and Sardinian in (Bergamo and Sardinia) Italy

Italian

Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy
Does not include: Albanian in Albania; Basque/French in France; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/WestSicilian and Sardinian in (Sardinia and 2 other sites) Italy and Lithuanian in Lithuania

Finnish

Includes: Finnish in Finland
Does not include: Nganasan and Russian in Russia; Belarusian in Belarus; Estonian in Estonia; Norwegian in Norway; Ashkenazi Jew in Poland and Ashkenazi Jew from East Europe especially Lithuania (expat in Baltimore MD)

Mid-Turkic

Includes: Tajik in (Pomiri) Tajikistan; Turkmen and Uzbek in Uzbekistan; Uygur in China and Hazara in Pakistan
Does not include: Altaian, Kalmyk, Tubalar, Lezgin and Mordovian in Russia; Xibo in China; Brahui, Burusho, Kalash and Pathan in Pakistan and Iranian in Iran

Native American

Includes: Bolivian in (Cochabamba, LaPaz and Pando) Bolivia; Piapoco in Colombia and Mayan, Mixe, Mixtec, Pima and Zapotec in Mexico
Does not include: Ju hoan_North in Namibia; Karitiana and Surui in Brazil; Icelandic in Iceland and Gambian in Western Gambia

Ambiguous West Eurasian

West Eurasian is a very general category containing Arab/Egyptian, Ashkenazi/Levantine, Central Asian, Northeast European, South Asian, South European, North/central European, Southwestern European and Central Indoeuropean

Helgenes50
05-21-2016, 08:38 AM
100 % Normand ( Next to Cherbourg)

Speculative

99.8%
European

Northwestern European

40.8%
British & Irish

13.3%
French & German

0.9%
Scandinavian

0.1%
Finnish

34.9%
Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European

1.5%
Iberian

2.7%
Broadly Southern European

0.9%
Eastern European

0.3%
Ashkenazi

4.3%
Broadly European

0.1%
Sub-Saharan African

0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African

0.1%
Unassigned


DNA.LAND

West Eurasian 100%

North/central European 57%
Italian 23%
Finnish 12%
Southwestern European 8.4% Southwestern European 5.8%
Ambiguous 2.6%

Asimakidis
05-21-2016, 09:56 AM
brother's results

West Eurasian 100%
Central Indoeuropean 57%


South European 28%
Italian 20%


Balkan 8.1%


Mediterranean Islander 12%


Arab/Egyptian 3%



widespread migrations of the past few hundred years.

57.2%

Middle Eastern & North African

56.3%


Middle Eastern



0.9%


Broadly Middle Eastern & North African






41.2%

European




Southern European

16.9%


Balkan



9.5%


Italian



11.6%


Broadly Southern European





3.2%


Broadly European






1.6%

Unassigned







100%

Theconqueror
05-26-2016, 08:03 PM
Under free speech, I would say that if the management of these companies dedicated as much resources (research and tools) into understanding the people of Europe instead of their pet projects, we wouldn't be talking about the merits of being a celto-germano-scandinavian on this site. By now, you would expect that the body of knowledge and data would allow for accurate sub-regional signatures. Seems not.


How about an admix test where Ashkenazis got Southern European instead of other way around? I think some figures in the industry have open political agendas and accuracy is a casualty.
Given these agendas publicly stated do people think these scores are an accident?


http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2015/06/genetic-census-of-the-jewish-people/

anglesqueville
05-26-2016, 09:04 PM
The point is our craving for detailed sub-regional analyses. This craving is quite understandable, but we must admit that the tools are far from being satisfying. 23&me shows my father (recently tested) as (speculative mode) 91.7% northwestern european, 5% southern european, 3.2% broadly european. DNALand: North/central european+Northeast european: 91% southwestern european: 9%. The fitting is not perfect, but not so bad. Though, at the subregional level, that does'nt work, to say the least. The topic of http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2014/05/18/admixture-not-soup-yet/ ( and its famous conclusive sentence "Because friends don’t let friends do DNA testing only to get these percentages") was ftdna, but I have no doubt that this criticism applies more or less to all individual admixtures compositions, from commercial companies or bloggers.