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View Full Version : Processed meats do cause cancer - WHO



Bas
10-26-2015, 04:48 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

According to the WHO: ''50g of processed meat a day - less than two slices of bacon - increased the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18%''

firemonkey
10-28-2015, 02:50 AM
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/who-report-on-red-and-processed-meat/

Erik
10-28-2015, 05:13 AM
Always hated bacon. :)

Clinton P
10-28-2015, 09:27 AM
Further research emerged today funded by Cancer UK, confirming the link between being alive at some point and the inevitability of death at a further point in the future. The latest research focuses specifically on the dangers of eating food in promoting death from cancer, in particular red meat this time. ‘There is no doubt that eating red meat increases your risk of cancer’, stated Professor Tom Grant. ‘All the indicators are that if you are still alive as a consequence of not dying from anything else, it is likely that you will die of eating red meat eventually. Or something else.’

Meanwhile, the Daily Express released new evidence earlier that the ill effects of eating red meat could be countered by the early onset of dementia or heart disease killing you first, although frustratingly eating red meat reduces the risk of these things killing you before eating red meat does.

‘Basically our research shows that being alive comes with 100% of dying in the long term.’ said Professor Grant.

Other headlines....

"Carcinogens 'probably cause cancer' says top scientists."

"Bacon eaters will have to go outside the office 'to indulge in their filthy habit'."

"Members of Dangerous Sports Society to tackle crispy bacon sandwich."

Clinton P

leonardo
10-28-2015, 11:41 AM
From what I understand, there were no new findings, just a compilation of previous studies. So, there is really nothing new here, as we have been informed of this warning for years. It won't change my eating habits. I don't see any more risk in occasionally eating these meats than social drinking, or other "risky" activities.

ArmandoR1b
10-28-2015, 12:33 PM
Further research emerged today funded by Cancer UK, confirming the link between being alive at some point and the inevitability of death at a further point in the future. The latest research focuses specifically on the dangers of eating food in promoting death from cancer, in particular red meat this time. ‘There is no doubt that eating red meat increases your risk of cancer’, stated Professor Tom Grant. ‘All the indicators are that if you are still alive as a consequence of not dying from anything else, it is likely that you will die of eating red meat eventually. Or something else.’

Meanwhile, the Daily Express released new evidence earlier that the ill effects of eating red meat could be countered by the early onset of dementia or heart disease killing you first, although frustratingly eating red meat reduces the risk of these things killing you before eating red meat does.

‘Basically our research shows that being alive comes with 100% of dying in the long term.’ said Professor Grant.

Other headlines....

"Carcinogens 'probably cause cancer' says top scientists."

"Bacon eaters will have to go outside the office 'to indulge in their filthy habit'."

"Members of Dangerous Sports Society to tackle crispy bacon sandwich."

Clinton P

I love satire.

alan
10-28-2015, 12:50 PM
what the article misses out in the famously healthy Mediterranean includes lots of treated cold meats, sausage etc and lots of ham.

DMXX
10-28-2015, 01:35 PM
With processed meats, it's the additive compounds (nitrate and nitrite containing salts are the usual implicated culprits) that are the main "enemy".

With non-processed meats, it's the high saturated fat content and overcooking (burning) that's the problem (applies to processed as well if undertaken).

There's also the issue of genetic predisposition (though it's not particularly prevalent), other dietary behaviour and conditions (e.g. ulcerative colitis) which set people up to developing colorectal cancer.

Cancer is itself a multifactoral pathology. I've (very unfortunately) seen several lifelong vegans succumb to some nasty forms of cancer, despite doing everything right on paper. There was some kerfuffle in the medical community earlier this year regarding a meta-analysis of oncological data, where the authors concluded cancer risk was a third each due to environment, inherent predisposition and "bad luck".

Also, the WHO's placement of processed meats next to things like smoking are quite preposterous. There is both correlation and direct causation data showing the effects those 50+ chemicals in cigarette smoke have on a cellular level. As I understand it, even the data on nitrates and nitrites is inconclusive. The cumulative risk of eating processed meats is only 1% higher when compared to non-meat eaters anyway.

In short, I question the rationale behind this move. Smoking, excess alcohol consumption, no exercise and excess sugar are far worse for you than the occasional bacon sarnie.

Someone in the WHO's certainly made a pig's ear through this ludicrous ranking system.

MikeWhalen
10-28-2015, 02:41 PM
Dear WHO....Tthhhhpppptttttttt!!

no disrespect to you DMXX but for the dopey Dr.s/researchers behind this...
6457

Ok, I get that bacon is cute when it's little
6458

and it is always possible this is true...
6459

but really, how can you disagree with Picard?
6460

after all, is this not the truest thing you have ever read?
6461

I am having some nice thin sliced but deli style stacked cappocola on an onion bun for lunch today
I will have some lovely Montreal smoked meat in a similar style tomorrow
and to celebrate the idjit WHO nonsense, I will have a magnificent BLT for lunch on Friday

Yummm

Mike

gravetti
10-28-2015, 02:53 PM
The Mongols had two main food groups—the white foods and the red. The white, of course, were the milk products. The red foods were meat, and Mongols ate meat from all of their animals. Meat was either skewered and roasted over fire, or boiled into stews and soups.

http://www.historyonthenet.com/mongols/what-did-the-mongols-eat

Is colorectal cancer more frequent in mongolians?

DMXX
10-29-2015, 02:57 AM
Dear WHO....Tthhhhpppptttttttt!!

no disrespect to you DMXX but for the dopey Dr.s/researchers behind this...
...

I am having some nice thin sliced but deli style stacked cappocola on an onion bun for lunch today
I will have some lovely Montreal smoked meat in a similar style tomorrow
and to celebrate the idjit WHO nonsense, I will have a magnificent BLT for lunch on Friday

Yummm

Mike

No disrespect taken. In fact, I agree, given the lopsided manner in which the inferences are being presented.

Clearly, high fat smoked bacon pan-fried to the point of crispiness won't be good for anyone, in light of the consistent data over the years. Low fat, unsmoked and grilled bacon pretty much circumvents all the risk factors, aside from the heme group modification issue.

The evidence I've seen this evening seems to indicate the fat content's the biggest colorectal cancer predisposing factor (the review linked below suggests this also). So, if there's one thing I'd change in light of all this, it'd be to at least cut the fat out.

I'm personally taking the WHO report as confirmation that my own bacon eating practice (grilled unsmoked medallions) is almost certainly not affecting my colorectal cancer risk.
The four medallions I'm going to knock back in 3 hours time contain a measly 1g of fat in total (0.5g saturates). A single McDonald's Big Mac contains 29g total fat, whereas a single large egg is around 6-7g. I think I'm doing fine.



Is colorectal cancer more frequent in mongolians?

Hard to determine due to likely ascertainment bias in literature (basically more methodological surveying in developed countries means the top numbers are consistently ranked up over time).

This review (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2796096/) indicates it's essentially a "developed world" problem. Also reviews the modifiable risk factors, some of which I mentioned in my first post.

alan
10-29-2015, 08:56 AM
With processed meats, it's the additive compounds (nitrate and nitrite containing salts are the usual implicated culprits) that are the main "enemy".

With non-processed meats, it's the high saturated fat content and overcooking (burning) that's the problem (applies to processed as well if undertaken).

There's also the issue of genetic predisposition (though it's not particularly prevalent), other dietary behaviour and conditions (e.g. ulcerative colitis) which set people up to developing colorectal cancer.

Cancer is itself a multifactoral pathology. I've (very unfortunately) seen several lifelong vegans succumb to some nasty forms of cancer, despite doing everything right on paper. There was some kerfuffle in the medical community earlier this year regarding a meta-analysis of oncological data, where the authors concluded cancer risk was a third each due to environment, inherent predisposition and "bad luck".

Also, the WHO's placement of processed meats next to things like smoking are quite preposterous. There is both correlation and direct causation data showing the effects those 50+ chemicals in cigarette smoke have on a cellular level. As I understand it, even the data on nitrates and nitrites is inconclusive. The cumulative risk of eating processed meats is only 1% higher when compared to non-meat eaters anyway.

In short, I question the rationale behind this move. Smoking, excess alcohol consumption, no exercise and excess sugar are far worse for you than the occasional bacon sarnie.

Someone in the WHO's certainly made a pig's ear through this ludicrous ranking system.

Thank god for that - I really want a bacon sarnie right now. Also I have neverwr seen the word kerfuffle written before so I now can spell 8-)

rms2
10-29-2015, 04:06 PM
I cut out most red meat after my heart attack and subsequent stent back in May of 2014. I did it because of the saturated fat and cholesterol in red meat, not because I was worried about cancer. I eat fish and mostly white meat poultry now. I do occasionally enjoy some venison, since that is pretty lean and was running around loose in the woods up until it was killed.

DMXX
10-29-2015, 06:52 PM
I cut out most red meat after my heart attack and subsequent stent back in May of 2014. I did it because of the saturated fat and cholesterol in red meat, not because I was worried about cancer. I eat fish and mostly white meat poultry now. I do occasionally enjoy some venison, since that is pretty lean and was running around loose in the woods up until it was killed.

This is a thorn in the side of vegan advocates, but at least one major study I read last year indicated a pescetarian diet was actually healthier than a purely plant-based diet. It's pretty much the fat content that stratifies the health profile of various meats (independent of curing, cooking etc. practices) to begin with (the haeme/heme issue is something of an indirect factor).

Your strategy is the right one for men especially. We tend to have higher elevated serum cholesterol. If I remember my 10 year cardiovascular risk chart, something like 90% of 80+ year olds are candidates for statin therapy in modern Western practice.

Although, anecdotally, I've noticed a lot of senior men (such as my father) just go off red meat and oily food at some point anyway... Nature's hand at work? I don't know.

vettor
10-29-2015, 07:06 PM
This is a thorn in the side of vegan advocates, but at least one major study I read last year indicated a pescetarian diet was actually healthier than a purely plant-based diet. It's pretty much the fat content that stratifies the health profile of various meats (independent of curing, cooking etc. practices) to begin with (the haeme/heme issue is something of an indirect factor).

Your strategy is the right one for men especially. We tend to have higher elevated serum cholesterol. If I remember my 10 year cardiovascular risk chart, something like 90% of 80+ year olds are candidates for statin therapy in modern Western practice.

Although, anecdotally, I've noticed a lot of senior men (such as my father) just go off red meat and oily food at some point anyway... Nature's hand at work? I don't know.

you need a balanced diet

My sister was vegetarian for 10 years until 5 years ago when she was hospitalised due to iron issues..........no tablet or any other remedy could help her. she was instructed to eat red meat once a week, she did this and is now healthy and not in the "danger zone" anymore.

My wife, once a meat eater ( 3 years ago ), actually 60% veg and 40% meat had thyroid issue, stopped meat and went full vegetarian, had major issues, and is now healthy due to a pescartarian diet.

As for me, since my family, and all families prior etc never ever touched lamb, I , as per medical tests have to avoid lamb ( the only meat I have to avoid ) due to its specific fat contend running through the meat. The pain is barely bearable for me. basically its an allegy

To conclude ....we are all different and need to consume what is best for our health............to say only meat causes cancer like smoking does is correct , but so does every preservative in all foods be it in vegetables, meat etc ............the pesticides sprayed on fruit and vegetables causes as much cancer as meat .

DMXX
10-29-2015, 07:56 PM
My sister was vegetarian for 10 years until 5 years ago when she was hospitalised due to iron issues..........no tablet or any other remedy could help her. she was instructed to eat red meat once a week, she did this and is now healthy and not in the "danger zone" anymore.


Yes, it's a common problem among vegans and vegetarians who don't plan their diets out. With careful planning, however, a vegan or vegetarian diet is certainly sustainable. Though, my experience below leaves a lot to be desired...

The question that plagues dietary choices from a health perspective (ignoring the ethics of animal consumption) is whether vegetarianism or veganism are superior to a vegetable-rich low fat high fibre omnivorous diet. The current work comparing meat vs. non-meat diets have too many extraneous caveats to be considered definitive.



My wife, once a meat eater ( 3 years ago ), actually 60% veg and 40% meat had thyroid issue, stopped meat and went full vegetarian, had major issues, and is now healthy due to a pescartarian diet.

As for me, since my family, and all families prior etc never ever touched lamb, I , as per medical tests have to avoid lamb ( the only meat I have to avoid ) due to its specific fat contend running through the meat. The pain is barely bearable for me. basically its an allegy

To conclude ....we are all different and need to consume what is best for our health............to say only meat causes cancer like smoking does is correct , but so does every preservative in all foods be it in vegetables, meat etc ............the pesticides sprayed on fruit and vegetables causes as much cancer as meat .

If you're having pain from consuming high fat, I'm going to assume you have biliary colic (gallstones). Yes, avoiding fat is prudent in your situation. If you keep attempting to eat big fatty meals, it'll keep returning, and you will inevitably develop something called cholecystitis (basically a hardcore version of what you experience now), which will require immediate surgery.

As far as personal anecdotes go, I actually went vegan recently for 4 weeks. Carefully planned the diet in every form possible (both macronutrient and micronutrient intake was practically the same). Replaced dairy products with the most nutritionally sound available choices, and meat with meat-free alternatives. I gradually stepped up fibre intake beforehand to avoid the 1-2 weeks of bowel hell the uninitiated experience during the transition. Finally, I ensured whatever soy was in my diet was firmly below the recommended maximum cited in a couple of studies (soy actually is thyroid hormone and testosterone diminishing in large quantities).

Despite my nutrition being the same on paper and expecting a flourish of good feeling from the move, I felt quite listless and noticed I'd began stalling in my training. Added in some branch chain amino acids just to cover any leucine and lysine deficiencies, no change.

Kept going for another two weeks. I now noticed the "male" side of the human condition was now adversely affected (facial hair growth slowed down, lacked drive etc.) and began to feel like I reached a physiological slump. Once more, everything was accounted for (same nutritional intake, same calories, even topped up with B12, iron and vit D, plus the BCAA's). I was actually getting weaker in the gym around 2.5-3 weeks in. Increased my calories (now in a 500+ surplus from maintenance)... Still weak. Sleep and stress levels hadn't changed, either.

After 4 weeks, I simply couldn't maintain this pointless experiment. Within a week of returning to low fat dairy (including whey protein) and meat, I began feeling better and my strength started returning. I don't have a satisfactory explanation regarding my experience, aside from the possibility that the growth factors present in animal-derived products sustained my training and ensured wellness much better than a vegan diet.

Retrospectively, I do wonder whether all the hype surrounding how "amazing" vegans feel is simply due to people having sub-par diets begin with transitioning to a better (but not "ideal"?) equivalent. The literature shows a lot of the "organic bloom" reactions vegans have is partially due to the placebo, anyway.

tamilgangster
10-29-2015, 08:35 PM
THey are saying PROCESSED meat causes cancer not regular meat. Processed food in general causes health problems, this should be common sense

I1-Z63
10-29-2015, 08:48 PM
I'm currently eating bacon and enjoying every bite.

vettor
10-29-2015, 10:46 PM
If you're having pain from consuming high fat, I'm going to assume you have biliary colic (gallstones). Yes, avoiding fat is prudent in your situation. If you keep attempting to eat big fatty meals, it'll keep returning, and you will inevitably develop something called cholecystitis (basically a hardcore version of what you experience now), which will require immediate surgery.



was tests for gallstones but have none, I do get kidney stones now ( twice ).............more drinking water is required

Strange how pork ( main meat in my family/ies) and beef , by cutting away the fat gives me no issue..................then again, I can eat fish everyday and have done for last 3 weeks

Torc Seanathair
10-29-2015, 11:59 PM
I'm currently eating bacon and enjoying every bite.

I like to eat healthy, and can forego any bacon, except my wife's bacon. She makes the best bacon. I'm skeptical that I could ever be persuaded to give that up.

Kwheaton
10-30-2015, 12:32 AM
I will not comment specifically on others dietary choices. Each one of us is different and our risks are also quite different. Due to a combination of health issues/ concerns I gave up red meat a couple of years ago. The one thing I noted in my own intake is that it was not so much the meat itself I missed, but rather the salt. I cannot imagine that unsalted bacon would have the same appeal. My husband knocked my socks off by giving up meat at the same time. This is a dyed in the wool--- meat and potatoes man. (When I met him veggies were Potatoes and creamed corn). If you are thinking about making a change two documentaries may be of interest (only if you are open minded and are interested in health aspects) "Forks Not Knives" and "Veducated." With all things your mileage may vary....to each their own...

Agamemnon
10-30-2015, 12:44 AM
Heard about this on the radio while we drove to the Lebanese restaurant, some self-righteous idiot was speaking and basically telling us that it's Murican propaganda, that all Americans are obese, have diabetes as well as too much cholesterol (while none of that exists in France, of course) before going on a rant about how being a French patriot really means eating French meat... The America Bashing is out of control here in France, I'm really fed up with it. Needless to say, this genius did a fine job reminding me why I avoid turning the TV on.

rms2
10-30-2015, 11:35 AM
We often visit a Russian deli in Richmond, Virginia (not far from where I live), and it has a wonderful selection of kolbasi (sausages) and other processed meats. I don't eat that stuff these days, but I do dearly love it, especially with beer or a few shots of vodka. Sigh . . .

MikeWhalen
10-30-2015, 02:02 PM
my cappocolo sammich I had yesterday was delicious!

I will have my roast beef sammich tonight (with cauliflower soup) and for lunch today it will be left over Italian sausage and cabbage rolls (Ukrainian style)


mmmmm

Mike

utR!
10-30-2015, 02:52 PM
My eldest sister is a vegeterian. She thinks she is allergic (according to some tests she took) to grain rye, wheat, barley and oats (she does eat them very rare). She is guite slim and since some years I have noticed that her feet seem to be slimmer and slimmer. I think as getting older you need strong muscles to keep on mooving. And enough protein good quality of protein. Everyone can choose what kind of protein they do take but also exercise is important. I think you can eat now and then processed meat.