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Kristiina
10-26-2015, 07:09 PM
He took a test several years ago with Familytree and mtDNA was defined H with the following values:
HVR1 differences from RSRS
A16129G
T16187C
C16189T
T16223C
G16230A
T16278C
C16311T
C16519T

HVR2 differences from RSRS
C146T
C152T
C195T
A247G
309.1C
315.1C

rCRS values
HVR2 diifferences from rCRS
73G
263G
309.1C
315.1C
522-
523-

Can anybody say anything more specific about this line than just H?
Thanks!

ArmandoR1b
10-27-2015, 12:37 PM
Kristiina, see what the James Lick utility says. It is at http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

You can download your husband's FASTA file from https://www.familytreedna.com/my/mtdna-results.aspx Look for the orange box on bottom right.

Then go to http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ and click Browse to point to the file then click upload. After a few minutes you will see a page that says Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches: and the first one will be the most likely subclade your husband belongs to.

Kristiina
10-27-2015, 07:00 PM
Thank you Armando! However, I think that his mtDNa is H4a1a1a as I found the following exact match on FamilyTree site:

N81867 Hanna Alvida Kalliainen, 1896, Kuolajärvi, Fi, H4a1a1a
A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16311T, C16519T
C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 309.1C, 315.1C

The area where H4a1a is found (Juuka, Nurmes) matches very well with where his mother is from and also Kuolajärvi could explain nicely certain archaic features of his mother (lactose intolerance, Rh negative blood).

ArmandoR1b
10-28-2015, 03:04 PM
Thank you Armando! However, I think that his mtDNa is H4a1a1a as I found the following exact match on FamilyTree site:

N81867 Hanna Alvida Kalliainen, 1896, Kuolajärvi, Fi, H4a1a1a
A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, C16311T, C16519T
C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 309.1C, 315.1C

The area where H4a1a is found (Juuka, Nurmes) matches very well with where his mother is from and also Kuolajärvi could explain nicely certain archaic features of his mother (lactose intolerance, Rh negative blood).

Was that in his list of matches or are you saying you found that in a DNA project? If you just found it in a DNA project you might still want to use James Lick's tool. When I run those results on the tool and your husband's results on the tool the haplogroup results are quite different.

Kristiina
10-28-2015, 04:12 PM
Yes, I just found the exact match on FTDNA's Finnish mtDNA project site and it is only based on the two first series of values.

What results do you get? It would be interesting to know. I may be able to do it myself, but you will definitely do it much faster. :-)

Kristiina
10-28-2015, 06:31 PM
I managed to do the test myself! The mtDNA proposed was K1a1b and its subtypes, but the matches were not exact. However, FTDNA defined his mtDNA as H, and I do not know if it is possible that they can make here such a mistake as it was not only HVR1 that was tested. Moreover, there is in any case a full match on FTDNA Project site that is also geographically very suitable.

K1a1b is very rare in Finland and looks like, at least in part, a Jewish haplotype.

ArmandoR1b
10-28-2015, 07:55 PM
I managed to do the test myself! The mtDNA proposed was K1a1b and its subtypes, but the matches were not exact. However, FTDNA defined his mtDNA as H, and I do not know if it is possible that they can make here such a mistake as it was not only HVR1 that was tested. Moreover, there is in any case a full match on FTDNA Project site that is also geographically very suitable.

K1a1b is very rare in Finland and looks like, at least in part, a Jewish haplotype.

When I ran your husband's results through the utility it came out with H3 as the best match and that isn't uncommon in the Finnish DNA project. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Finland?iframe=mtresults


Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) H3(A73G)

Defining Markers for haplogroup H3(A73G):
HVR2: 73G 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 4769G 6776C 8860G 15326G
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H3(A73G) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 6776C ⇨ H3 ⇨ 73G ⇨ H3(A73G) ⇨ (309.1C) (315.1C) (522-) (523-)

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(2): 73G 263G
Extras(0): (309.1C) (315.1C) (522-) (523-)
Untested(6): 750 1438 4769 6776 8860 15326

Did you use the FASTA file for the utility ?

Kristiina
10-28-2015, 08:23 PM
No, because there was not any orange box on bottom right and on James Lick's instructions they said that FASTA is not always provided.

H3 is quite close but not an exact match. Among Finnish H3 results, C16519T is missing in HVR1 and in HVR2, there are 3 extra mutations G73A, 522.1A, 522.2C. H3 is quite western and some matches look foreigners and my husband's mother is definitely from the northeast.

ArmandoR1b
10-28-2015, 10:26 PM
No, because there was not any orange box on bottom right and on James Lick's instructions they said that FASTA is not always provided.

That's very unfortunate. You should contact FTDNA about the FASTA file not being available and see why your husband's account doesn't have it. Use the link on the bottom right at https://www.familytreedna.com/contact.aspx


H3 is quite close but not an exact match. Among Finnish H3 results, C16519T is missing in HVR1 and in HVR2,
This is what Ann Turner has to say about C16519T

16519C is the single most common mutation to be found, and it's so volatile
it's not used for haplogroup definitions. It probably still has some
significance for person-to-person comparisons, though.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2013-09/1380494012


there are 3 extra mutations G73A, 522.1A, 522.2C.

Extra mutations just means apart from the H3 mutations your husband also has those. It doesn't mean that your husband is not H3 due to the extra mutations.


H3 is quite western and some matches look foreigners and my husband's mother is definitely from the northeast.

Haplogroups don't affect phenotype, autosomal DNA does, and even though H3 is common in western Europe H3 obviously exists in Finland. It could have easily arrived in Finland in the Neolithic.

Petr
10-28-2015, 10:37 PM
I think that without upgrading to mtFull Sequence you can just guess.

Markers 309.1C, 315.1C, 522- and 523- are not important for haplogroup determination.

So the difference against rCRS (H2a2a1) is just 73G 263G, these two markers cannot give any better result.

Haplogroups exactly with these two mutations in HVR1+HVR2 are e.g.: H3(A73G), H3d, HV(A73G), H1e2c.

Your H4a1a1a match is not exact, T16278C mutation is missing.

Petr
10-28-2015, 10:42 PM
That's very unfortunate. You should contact FTDNA about the FASTA file not being available and see why your husband's account doesn't have it. Use the link on the bottom right at https://www.familytreedna.com/contact.aspxAFAIK the FASTA file is available for mtFull Sequence test, not for mtDNA+ test (HVR1+HVR2 only).

ArmandoR1b
10-29-2015, 02:30 AM
AFAIK the FASTA file is available for mtFull Sequence test, not for mtDNA+ test (HVR1+HVR2 only).

Ok, what I did wrong was not look to see if she had posted coding region mutations. So she needs to upgrade him to mtFull Sequence test then to get a more accurate subclade.

I1-Z63
10-29-2015, 10:30 PM
Did you try this?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glad/dna/mtdnatool.html

ArmandoR1b
10-30-2015, 12:01 AM
I just finished comparing several groups of mtDNAplus kits that are matches to mtFull Sequence kits that have common ancestors in their genealogical trees using the James Lick utility at http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ and everyone of them had a prediction for the subclade that their respective mtFull Sequence match has at FTDNA.

Since Kristiina's husband has H3 as the closest match with the James Lick utility then that is very likely his subclade.