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thetick
10-30-2015, 05:10 AM
Below is the list of SNPs. I think FTDNA just picked from the YSEQ packs but created BY SNP names instead of the A SNP names YSEQ creates.

On a personal note after checking my Big Y Novel Variants I have new terminal SNP BY3207 that is included in the Z198 pack. Hopefully FTDNA will move BY3207 to a known SNP and to my Dashboard terminal SNP.

TigerMW
11-03-2015, 09:41 PM
Below is the list of SNPs. I think FTDNA just picked from the YSEQ packs but created BY SNP names instead of the A SNP names YSEQ creates.

On a personal note after checking my Big Y Novel Variants I have new terminal SNP BY3207 that is included in the Z198 pack. Hopefully FTDNA will move BY3207 to a known SNP and to my Dashboard terminal SNP.
The FTDNA Upgrades/Additional Tests-Advanced Test link for the R1b-Z198 SNP Pack has been corrected. The original image that you copied was a couple of weeks behind where their lab was. I thought something was wrong so I've been working on this since Friday.

SNP Pack R1b - Z198 SNP Pack $99.00 Add

Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
SRY2627, Z199, Z204, Z269, Z202, Z203, Z264, Z266, Z205, Z207, CTS4299, S4415, F3198, F1287, CTS10893, PF1023, CTS606, CTS5284, CTS7416, F2536, PF2462, CTS9454, CTS4015, L165, F1697, PF4354, PF4280, CTS4188, CTS3437, F3161, Z198

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
Z262, BY3192, BY3193, BY3194, BY3195, BY3196, BY3197, BY3198, BY3199, BY3201, BY3204, BY3210, BY3211, BY3213, BY3214, BY3215, BY3216, BY3217, BY3218, BY3219, BY3220, BY3221, BY3222, BY3223, BY3224, BY3225, A477, A478, BY129, BY131, BY132, BY133, BY134, BY209, BY210, BY456, CTS10339, CTS10355, CTS10409, CTS10783, CTS11486, CTS43, CTS4549, CTS4716, ZS312, Z693, CTS8289, CTS9762, CTS9993, FGC11245, M3920, Z690, Z29719, Z29706, S11121, S11475, S14445, S22015, S5643, S5647, S5661, Z267, Z263, Z208, Z206, Z201, Z200, S6338, S6339, S6366, Y5131, Y5135, Y15646, Y15783, Y15784, Y5108, Y5109, Y5110, Y5113, Y5114, BY3252, BY3253, BY3254, BY3255, BY3256, BY3257, BY3258, BY3259, BY3260, BY3261, BY3262, BY3263, BY3264, BY3265, Y17559, BY3266, BY3267, BY3268, BY3269, BY3270, Z29707, Y9114, Y8421, Y8417, Y8412, Y8411, Y7733, Y7729, Y17741, BY3271, BY3272, BY3273, BY3274, CTS3555, CTS5337, CTS9615, Y1238, FGC11225, FGC11255, FGC20084, FGC35932, FGC39110, FGC39114, FGC9381, PH4190, PH5262, S16419, S23468, A7080, A7414, A7415, Y16965

This is fairly robust test package with good coverage of Z198. A lot of SNPs. I'm counting 163 that are all tested in one fell swoop for everyone taking the test. There are no dependencies where SNPs in the package are selectively tested. It's all one fell swoop so there is some cross-validation support. There are selected phylogenetic equivalents included so there is a chance to break up lightly tested blocks of SNPs.

I want to thank Dick, Gareth, Tim and Stephen. The real work now begins for project admins to get these SNPs properly updated on the haplotree so haplogroup labels will be correct on matching and project screens. Very few people probably realize how much Rayzn has done for DF27, including subclades beyond the one he is in.

The price has not gone up to $119 yet but it might Wednesday when they start a new batch cycle.

thetick
11-03-2015, 10:31 PM
Yep thanks for the update. I see my Big Y results now longer have BY3207 but A7080. So looks like FTDNA is acknowledging YSEQ or Alex (ytree.net) found SNPs.

TigerMW
11-03-2015, 10:47 PM
Yep thanks for the update. I see my Big Y results now longer have BY3207 but A7080. So looks like FTDNA is acknowledging YSEQ or Alex (ytree.net) found SNPs.
I don't know. They keep changing the synonyms. I've never figured how they use synonyms. Sometimes they use one name in Advanced Tests and another in a Pack. I try to point those out but I can't figure out their "rules" on this.

For an SNP to reach the FTDNA haplotree, however, they have to see at least two individuals with it in their database. Being an SNP Pack does not mean being on their haplotree but it is a good step forward.

After downloading YBrowse SNP names and positions and contacting FTDNA for their BY SNP names, here is my depiction of a draft tree using the SNPs in the Z198 Pack.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-Z198-Pack.pdf

I believe this is very close in alignment with the Big Tree, the YFull experimental tree and stuff FTDNA has from years of accumulation. Fixed SNP Packs will never be perfect but at least we can get started on getting their haplotree updated somewhere approximately on target now.

ArmandoR1b
11-03-2015, 11:09 PM
Do you have a count of how many Z198 SNP pack orders you have seen so far?

razyn
11-04-2015, 04:04 AM
Do you have a count of how many Z198 SNP pack orders you have seen so far?

Just from DF27 project members, 12 orders for the Z198 pack at the moment. Compared with 53 for the DF27 pack, and 6 for the Z209 pack. I assume those go to the lab (are "batched") tomorrow evening, after which I probably won't be able to count new orders.

I have no stats for Z198 SNP pack orders from members of the older SRY2627 project, who haven't joined the DF27 one; but there are many such people, and presumably some are ordering it.

Gray Fox
11-04-2015, 07:03 AM
I'm still considering it myself.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2015, 11:56 AM
Just from DF27 project members, 12 orders for the Z198 pack at the moment. Compared with 53 for the DF27 pack, and 6 for the Z209 pack. I assume those go to the lab (are "batched") tomorrow evening, after which I probably won't be able to count new orders.

I have no stats for Z198 SNP pack orders from members of the older SRY2627 project, who haven't joined the DF27 one; but there are many such people, and presumably some are ordering it.

Thanks. 12 is pretty good for something that is only a week old. The total of all of the SNP Pack orders is very good. It shows that there were a lot of people itching to learn more but unwilling or unable to spend on the BigY test. This is something that I have been saying for several months.

Earl Davis
11-04-2015, 08:37 PM
My understanding of the Z198 tree (which may be wrong) is that there are currently three main known branches of Z198. One lead by CTS4188 which is in the pack, one lead by L165 which is in the pack and one lead by Z292 which I could not see.

Can anyone confirm if Z292 or an alternative is in the pack?

Z292 is also known as S460.

Y694 is currently known as being at the same level as Z292. Y694 is also known as ZS312 and M7953.

Is anything at that level included in the pack?

I do notice that Z262 from the next level down from those is included.

I may be looking an an outdated list hence the question.

Thanks.

Earl.

TigerMW
11-05-2015, 03:02 AM
My understanding of the Z198 tree (which may be wrong) is that there are currently three main known branches of Z198. One lead by CTS4188 which is in the pack, one lead by L165 which is in the pack and one lead by Z292 which I could not see. .
I posted the tree as I have it (mainly from Big Tree, YFull and FTDNA) at the R1b-DF27-Project yahoo group. Here is the .pdf of the file of what's in the Z198 Pack.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-Z198-Pack.pdf

CTS4188, L165 and ZS312 are the three main branches right underneath Z198 (eq. to L176.2). All three and Z198 are in the pack.


... Can anyone confirm if Z292 or an alternative is in the pack?

Z292 is also known as S460.

Y694 is currently known as being at the same level as Z292. Y694 is also known as ZS312 and M7953.
Earl, if you look at reply #2 below you will see that ZS312 is in the pack. You can check the other SNPs in the list too. If you look at the YFull tree, ZS312 is equivalent to Z292.
http://yfull.com/tree/R-Z292/
FTDNA chose ZS312 over Z292. I don't remember why Z292 was rejected.

The Z198 Pack is in pretty close alignment with the Big Tree, YFull and FTDNA. It is a all in one fell swoop test so exact placement of the SNPs or conflicts between the various trees are not critical. The SNPs get tested anyway and we'll evaluate the results as they come in and determine what the final branching is.

Earl Davis
11-05-2015, 11:46 AM
Thanks Mike. Good to know that ZS312 (Z292) is included.

Earl.

Isidro
11-27-2015, 07:35 PM
Awaiting Tests

Tests

Lab Procedure

Batch

Expected
Notes


R1b - Z198 SNP Pack

SMS-Z198

648

12/16/2015 - 12/30/2015

Isidro
12-16-2015, 11:05 PM
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6955&stc=1

Ric
12-17-2015, 02:11 AM
yeah, same for z209...as usual I should say

Isidro
01-02-2016, 04:01 AM
Another extended delay for my R1b-Z198 SNP Pack, this time moved it to expected :01/13/2016 - 01/27/2016.

My waiting results were sweetened by a MtDna cousin from Ballynahatty, a 3343–3020BC Middle to Late Neolithic Female HV0 +195 —

Isidro
01-21-2016, 10:17 AM
Yet another delay:


R1b - Z198 SNP Pack
SMS-Z198
648
01/27/2016 - 02/10/2016



Not surprising, 3 months and counting.

Kind of reminiscent of 2011 when my result +176.2 (considered a Nordic marker at the time) is still absent in FTDNA maps, not that this marker in itself matter as much now.It also kind of goes along with those lines in the sand that have to be redrawn about Cardial Neolithic movements, aDNA is sure a stickler dilemma for those who have had fixed ideas for so long.
Exciting year for aDNA will be, as Yoda would say.

razyn
02-03-2016, 05:14 PM
The first 16 of these Z198 SNP Packs (whose owners are members of the DF27 project) reported results yesterday. I will deal with them in the next day or so, all of us have pretty full plates at the moment. The separate SRY2627 project may use them more intelligently than I can, at present. Just thought I should bump this conversation, which has mostly been griping about the wait.

Edit -- I've run through them quickly. In the first 16, there are only three pairs who got the same call, so 13 different "terminal" SNPs named. Looks like a pretty decent tree-building tool.

lgmayka
02-03-2016, 10:29 PM
The first 16 of these Z198 SNP Packs (whose owners are members of the DF27 project) reported results yesterday.
138253 from northeastern Poland (near the Belarusian border) tested
Y8421+ Y9114+ Y8411+ Y8412- Y8417-
He has ordered the Big Y test. Right now, YFull's haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Y8410/) does not distinguish the R-Y8411 level from the R-Y8412 level.

GarethH
02-03-2016, 11:10 PM
The first 16 of these Z198 SNP Packs (whose owners are members of the DF27 project) reported results yesterday. I will deal with them in the next day or so, all of us have pretty full plates at the moment. The separate SRY2627 project may use them more intelligently than I can, at present. Just thought I should bump this conversation, which has mostly been griping about the wait.

Edit -- I've run through them quickly. In the first 16, there are only three pairs who got the same call, so 13 different "terminal" SNPs named. Looks like a pretty decent tree-building tool.

The results are extremely informative, almost all of those tested have new terminal SNPs several levels downstream from their old ones. I'd happily recommend this test to anyone who is R-Z198 or R-SRY2627 who can't afford the Big Y.

Edit - I suspect the wait was so that the FTDNA tree could be updated with the new SNPs. If so I think it was justified as the members can now see where the results place them on the tree. A feature which I haven't seen before is a * after a SNP name on the Haplotree page to indicate a no-call or heterozygous result.

Isidro
02-04-2016, 01:40 AM
My results:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7602&stc=1

Fomorach
02-04-2016, 03:35 PM
The first 16 of these Z198 SNP Packs (whose owners are members of the DF27 project) reported results yesterday. I will deal with them in the next day or so, all of us have pretty full plates at the moment. The separate SRY2627 project may use them more intelligently than I can, at present. Just thought I should bump this conversation, which has mostly been griping about the wait.

Edit -- I've run through them quickly. In the first 16, there are only three pairs who got the same call, so 13 different "terminal" SNPs named. Looks like a pretty decent tree-building tool.

Nice, only three pairs with the same terminal SNPs, and Isidro and me are one of them.

GarethH
02-04-2016, 08:48 PM
Nice, only three pairs with the same terminal SNPs, and Isidro and me are one of them.

If you join the R-Z198 Project, I'll create a subgroup for just the two of you :)