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I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 04:46 AM
So I have a new Big Y match, I only have 2 matches at no known SNP differences now but the second one is of the same z63 subclade as myself. The first one, which seems to be the closer match at 229 shared novelties, is not of the same Z63 subclade as myself and the second male. He also has 1 known SNP difference with the second male, my match in the same subclade. What is that all about?



http://i67.tinypic.com/2i93yqh.jpg

thetick
11-02-2015, 06:17 AM
There are lots of snps below z63. Keep in mind the match who is not z63 could just have a no call at that location and could actually be z63+. I suggest you join https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/2121/dna-results and discuss with the admin. Otherwise unless more details like lastname, kit number are shared there is not much one can help you here.

I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 06:23 AM
There are lots of snps below z63. Keep in mind the match who is not z63 could just have a no call at that location and could actually be z63+. I suggested you join https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/2121/dna-results and discuss with the admin. Otherwise unless more details like lastname, kit number are shared there is not much one can help you here.

The top match I have is z63+ but "ungrouped" in that project. He will submit his BAM to yfull.

JMcB
05-15-2016, 02:08 AM
I have a questioned that is in a way related to Big Y as it relates to Geno 2.0 Next Generation.

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion concerning Geno 2.0 Next Generation. For those who can't afford Big Y and an analysis from Yfull, is Geno 2.0 a reasonable alternative? I know it doesn't discover any new SNPs but I'm curious to know how well it covers the known SNPs out there. And as it's currently selling for $149 and can be uploaded to FTDNA for free and you can also upgrade to Family Finder for $39 it seems like a reasonable choice for those who don't have five or six hundred dollars. Does anyone see any drawbacks in following this course?

RobertCasey
05-15-2016, 04:01 AM
I have a questioned that is in a way related to Big Y as it relates to Geno 2.0 Next Generation.

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion concerning Geno 2.0 Next Generation. For those who can't afford Big Y and an analysis from Yfull, is Geno 2.0 a reasonable alternative? I know it doesn't discover any new SNPs but I'm curious to know how well it covers the known SNPs out there. And as it's currently selling for $149 and can be uploaded to FTDNA for free and you can also upgrade to Family Finder for $39 it seems like a reasonable choice for those who don't have five or six hundred dollars. Does anyone see any drawbacks in following this course?
I do not think that the Nat Geo test is very viable these days. If you budget is limited, consider SNP pack tests from FTDNA or SNP panel tests from YSEQ. You can also test private YSNPs of NGS testers if you have any close YSTR matches that have tested with the Big Y test. Advice is also very dependent on what you have tested with YDNA to date, where you are located on the haplotree and how many YSTR mateches that you have. However, the Nat Geo test is so dated now that it is not really economical in my opinion. Neither is the CROMO2 test which is now very obsolete as well. If you have less than 67 YSTR markers, you should first upgrade to 67 markers.

lgmayka
05-15-2016, 09:31 AM
And as it's currently selling for $149 and can be uploaded to FTDNA for free and you can also upgrade to Family Finder for $39 it seems like a reasonable choice for those who don't have five or six hundred dollars. Does anyone see any drawbacks in following this course?
If you have not yet ordered the $99 Family Finder, $149 Geno2+ (http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?npd&npd&productId=2003825&code=SR90000genographic) and the $39 FF upgrade is a reasonable choice IMHO. For the extra $90, you get:

- yDNA subhaplogroup--especially useful if neither FTDNA nor Yseq offers SNP packs/panels for your haplogroup (e.g., I1)
- mtDNA subhaplogroup
- discount price ($109) on Y-DNA37.

Of course, if you have already ordered Family Finder, Y-DNA37, mtFullSequence, and a SNP pack, Geno2+ doesn't add much.

ArmandoR1b
05-15-2016, 10:49 AM
I have a questioned that is in a way related to Big Y as it relates to Geno 2.0 Next Generation.

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion concerning Geno 2.0 Next Generation. For those who can't afford Big Y and an analysis from Yfull, is Geno 2.0 a reasonable alternative? I know it doesn't discover any new SNPs but I'm curious to know how well it covers the known SNPs out there. And as it's currently selling for $149 and can be uploaded to FTDNA for free and you can also upgrade to Family Finder for $39 it seems like a reasonable choice for those who don't have five or six hundred dollars. Does anyone see any drawbacks in following this course?
From what I have seen, it has created confusion with too many people and created too many questions with too few answers for them. YMMV, but just know that it isn't a good test for everyone.

JMcB
05-15-2016, 03:02 PM
Thank you all for your replies. So far I have a 67 marker test at FTDNA with a fair amount of close and more distant matches. The closest being for the most part in my own surname. I've been assigned I-M253 and predicted by various project administrators as F2642, test Y3649. But I haven't done any SNP tests as of yet. So I was hoping to get a confirmed terminal SNP reading, plus an mtDNA haplogroup designation and an upgrade to Family Finder by going with Geno 2.0.

thetick
05-15-2016, 04:34 PM
So I was hoping to get a confirmed terminal SNP reading, plus an mtDNA haplogroup designation and an upgrade to Family Finder by going with Geno 2.0.
As mentioned above Geno 2.0 is not a very useful test. With Geno2.0 very likely you will not have a deep terminal SNP and just as likely have false positives. Your mtDNA results will just be an extremely low resolution test so knowing the continent is probably the best possible result. Geno2.0 is not an upgrade at all to Family Finder as there are less SNPs and no cousin matching.

So given you have the cash to spend below are some options: Number one is very pricy, but the other two are much cheaper.

1) Big Y or FGC are your only upgrades for YDNA.
2) Full mtDNA is the only option for mtDNA. Any other test is a waste. Some will argue mtDNA is pretty worthless for ancestry in general.
3) There is no Family Finder upgrade though not an upgrade but you could get Ancestry or 23andme which will provide similar but sometimes new details.

lgmayka
05-15-2016, 07:54 PM
Geno2.0 is not an upgrade at all to Family Finder as there are less SNPs and no cousin matching.
...
3) There is no Family Finder upgrade though not an upgrade but you could get Ancestry or 23andme which will provide similar but sometimes new details.
False and false. Both Geno2+ and AncestryDNA can be transferred into an FTDNA account and upgraded to full Family Finder status for $39.

lgmayka
05-15-2016, 08:12 PM
So far I have a 67 marker test at FTDNA with a fair amount of close and more distant matches. The closest being for the most part in my own surname. I've been assigned I-M253 and predicted by various project administrators as F2642, test Y3649. But I haven't done any SNP tests as of yet. So I was hoping to get a confirmed terminal SNP reading, plus an mtDNA haplogroup designation and an upgrade to Family Finder by going with Geno 2.0.
OK, so you have a SNP prediction already.

One early source sent out a list of the SNPs allegedly tested by Geno2+ . It included
CTS6772 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y1966/)(downstream from S2169, upstream from Y3649)
F2642 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-S2169/)(same as S2169)
etc.

However:
- This may have been merely a candidate list. There is no guarantee that all these SNPs actually proved reliably testable in Geno2+ results.
- Even if they produce reliable results, there is no guarantee that FTDNA picks them out of your raw data properly and enters them into your account. You may have to check the raw data file.

EDIT: I checked the raw data from a Geno2+ transfer. I see
CTS6772 Y CC
F2642 Y GG
Both of these are the ancestral alleles, because this particular individual is in another haplogroup. But these results strongly suggest that Geno2+ will indeed detect the CTS6772 and F2642 SNPs.

JMcB
05-16-2016, 02:34 PM
Thank you, Igmayka for your input, I really appreciated it! Not only here but also on the many older threads I've searched where your contributions have been very helpful.

Regards - John

Ali16
05-18-2016, 01:30 PM
Geno 2.0 NG should not be purchased by anyone until they resolve the false results. I hope they are working on 3.0.

Cofgene
05-18-2016, 05:11 PM
Geno 2.0 NG should not be purchased by anyone until they resolve the false results. I hope they are working on 3.0.

Most SNP chip or bead platforms will have problems with specific probes or combinations of probes. One will never get everything right. Just look at some of the problems with FTDNA SNP packs even though those have gone through some level of validation. Should illumina have stopped selling the chips used for 23andMe/FF/Ancestry because 90% of the y-probes weren't functional? Geno2 NG is still an appropriate product. As incorrect reads are identified they can be filtered out by NG and/or FTDNA. For those of us in haplogroup project getting an individual correctly identified into a specific region say L21, P312, U106, L23, where FTDNA SNP packs can take over is all we really need. Get the new testing lineages identified into the appropriate haplogroup region then fine tune their results using other tests.

Ali16
05-18-2016, 05:13 PM
Why have they been unable to filter for 4+ months??

Rpink53
08-10-2018, 01:26 PM
I am now down to I-BY526 on 23andMe. Would it Big-Y testing be worth it or am I too far along in the stream? I am new to this and any help is greatly appreciated.

spruithean
08-10-2018, 03:34 PM
I am now down to I-BY526 on 23andMe. Would it Big-Y testing be worth it or am I too far along in the stream? I am new to this and any help is greatly appreciated.

Big Y is worth it if you are interested and see that the results would be valuable to you. It does not matter where another company has tested your sample to, Big Y will test known SNPs and novel SNPs and it will determine your "terminal" SNP and it may help find people you share a distant common ancestor with.

lgmayka
08-11-2018, 02:24 AM
I am now down to I-BY526 on 23andMe.
Here is the I-BY526 clade (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y8935/), which YFull calls I-Y8935. It looks to me like the Big Y will be useful to you unless you belong to the I-Y33719 subclade (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y33719/), which is already well-mapped.