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gruder
11-02-2015, 06:05 AM
Hello.
I am new to this website, as well as DNA/Genealogy stuff. Me and my brother have been researching our family background for 3 years now. We've found a lot of information using AncestryDNA, ftDNA, GEDMatch, and 23andMe. We have all the information, but we don't know how to make sense of it.
Here's what I know (paper trail)
Mother: Mostly English, Dutch, and German
Father: He's adopted so we don't know anything about him but we guess he's Irish.
My mom has brown hair, brown eyes, and unusually dark skin (she grew up in SoCal, but still it's very peculiar to me why she's so dark). My dad has black hair and green eyes, and very fair skinned. I have brown hair, brown eyes, and I am fair-skinned.
Mothers family has been here since the early 1700's coming from England and Holland. My dad, I don't know. My haplogroups are in my profile.
Thank you!
My EU-k15
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.61
2 Baltic 20.38
3 West_Med 14.26
4 West_Asian 5.67
5 South_Asian 2.07
6 Amerindian 1.78
7 Red_Sea 1.74
8 East_Med 1.25


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southwest_English @ 3.484504
2 West_Scottish @ 4.343005
3 Irish @ 4.555445
4 Orcadian @ 5.187143
5 Southeast_English @ 5.654191
6 North_Dutch @ 7.580357
7 Danish @ 8.154659
8 Norwegian @ 9.648436
9 South_Dutch @ 9.855775
10 North_German @ 9.951562
11 West_German @ 11.638169
12 Swedish @ 12.477930
13 French @ 14.307564
14 Austrian @ 18.813000
15 North_Swedish @ 19.284529
16 East_German @ 19.338736
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 21.413143
18 Southwest_French @ 21.886179
19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 22.420538
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 22.484859

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +50% Southwest_English @ 3.484504


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +25% Southwest_English +25% West_Scottish @ 3.366259


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.366259
2 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.373102
3 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.484504
4 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.493480
5 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.496640
6 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.543041
7 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.619924
8 French + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.675622
9 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.710016
10 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.736805
11 French + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.740599
12 Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.767523
13 Irish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.784273
14 French + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.837121
15 Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.842416
16 Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.846511
17 Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.853132
18 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.886000
19 Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.894381
20 South_Dutch + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.894974

EU-v2k15
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 34.12
2 Atlantic 31.61
3 West_Med 9.44
4 Eastern_Euro 7.77
5 Baltic 7.44
6 West_Asian 4.39
7 South_Asian 1.76
8 Amerindian 1.55
9 Red_Sea 1.26


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 4.831762
2 Southwest_English @ 4.994961
3 Irish @ 5.626585
4 West_Scottish @ 5.954813
5 Orcadian @ 6.922836
6 Danish @ 8.217308
7 North_Dutch @ 8.523889
8 South_Dutch @ 8.850234
9 North_German @ 8.951732
10 West_German @ 12.296137
11 French @ 12.496651
12 Norwegian @ 12.796795
13 West_Norwegian @ 13.289691
14 Swedish @ 14.523418
15 North_Swedish @ 17.133303
16 East_German @ 17.618006
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 19.991339
18 Spanish_Galicia @ 20.794415
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 21.244934
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 21.476925

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Southwest_English @ 4.706878


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% Orcadian +25% Southwest_French @ 4.060028


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.836929
2 French_Basque + Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.866039
3 French_Basque + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.998014
4 French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 4.002878
5 Danish + French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.005295
6 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.047434
7 French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.051316
8 Danish + French_Basque + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 4.052565
9 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 4.060028
10 French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 4.097558
11 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French + West_Scottish @ 4.111049
12 French_Basque + Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.131402
13 Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 4.141225
14 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 4.147648
15 Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.187231
16 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.203083
17 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 4.229585
18 French_Basque + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.242866
19 Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish @ 4.244821
20 French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.252669
Dodecad v3
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 54.13
2 Mediterranean 26.43
3 East_European 9.27
4 West_Asian 6.84
5 Northeast_Asian 1.08
6 South_Asian 1.02


Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 CEU @ 2.391937
2 Orcadian @ 3.386884
3 Orkney @ 3.679406
4 Argyll @ 4.253080
5 N._European @ 4.432551
6 Mixed_Germanic @ 8.884888
7 German @ 9.045950
8 Dutch @ 9.358310
9 French @ 9.565433
10 French @ 9.942646
11 Kent @ 11.636999
12 British_Isles @ 13.615162
13 British @ 13.712559
14 Cornwall @ 14.385739
15 Irish @ 16.974739
16 Swedish @ 18.179436
17 Norwegian @ 18.618404
18 Slovenian @ 19.862471
19 French_Basque @ 21.927546
20 Hungarians @ 24.314747

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% CEU +50% CEU @ 2.391937


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% CEU +25% French +25% Argyll @ 1.449522


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French + Orcadian + Argyll + N._European @ 1.166938
2 French + Orkney + Argyll + N._European @ 1.202658
3 CEU + French + Argyll + Argyll @ 1.206780
4 CEU + French + Argyll + Argyll @ 1.209402
5 CEU + French + Orkney + Argyll @ 1.212724
6 French + Orcadian + Argyll + Argyll @ 1.238408
7 French + Orkney + Argyll + Argyll @ 1.249743
8 French + Argyll + Argyll + N._European @ 1.258593
9 French + Orcadian + Orkney + N._European @ 1.266908
10 French + Orkney + Orkney + N._European @ 1.268253
11 French + Orcadian + Orcadian + N._European @ 1.269926
12 French + Orcadian + Argyll + N._European @ 1.272095
13 CEU + French + Orcadian + Argyll @ 1.272771
14 French + Argyll + Argyll + Argyll @ 1.281265
15 Cornwall + FIN + Kent + North_Italian @ 1.283700
16 CEU + French + Orkney + Argyll @ 1.290853
17 French + Orcadian + Orcadian + N._European @ 1.297756
18 CEU + French + Argyll + N._European @ 1.299295
19 French + Orcadian + Orkney + N._European @ 1.307234
20 French + Orkney + Orkney + N._European @ 1.325178

Done.

Elapsed time 1.0452 seconds.
MDLP Ultimate
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ENF 42.97
2 WHG-UHG 27.31
3 ANE 21.89
4 Caucas-Gedrosia 6.21


Finished reading population data. 662 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_European @ 2.165318
2 English_GBR @ 2.376965
3 North_German @ 2.912812
4 Welsh @ 2.980770
5 Germany_North @ 3.225616
6 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 4.105818
7 Belgian @ 4.303271
8 Slovenian2 @ 4.436989
9 Sweden @ 4.462635
10 Swede @ 4.464717
11 European_Utah @ 4.964291
12 German @ 5.043330
13 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 5.302493
14 English_Kent_GBR @ 5.465179
15 Slovak @ 5.531975
16 Czech2 @ 5.827585
17 Germany_South @ 6.555719
18 Czech @ 6.584372
19 Sorbs @ 6.696520
20 South-German @ 6.786102

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_European +50% North_German @ 1.804375


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Cornwall_GBR +25% Inkeri +25% Welsh @ 1.597969


EUTest
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ATLANTIC 30.26
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 26.76
3 EAST_EURO 12.63
4 WEST_MED 11.64
5 SOUTH_BALTIC 9.68
6 WEST_ASIAN 3.92
7 EAST_MED 2.49
8 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.56


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 IE @ 3.755722
2 Cornish @ 3.782969
3 Orcadian @ 4.380914
4 Scottish @ 5.102349
5 English @ 6.014668
6 NL @ 6.964439
7 DK @ 7.720349
8 West_&_Central_German @ 8.403781
9 NO @ 10.179091
10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 11.577939
11 FR @ 12.698201
12 North_Swedish @ 14.830949
13 AT @ 16.097277
14 ES @ 20.425724
15 PT @ 20.709316
16 HU @ 22.127533
17 French_Basque @ 24.046312
18 South_Finnish @ 24.320585
19 Serbian @ 24.542767
20 North_Italian @ 25.893164

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cornish +50% IE @ 3.139678


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cornish +25% IE +25% IE @ 3.139678


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cornish + Cornish + IE + IE @ 3.139678
2 Cornish + IE + IE + IE @ 3.309065
3 Cornish + Cornish + Cornish + IE @ 3.324811
4 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Scottish @ 3.340489
5 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Orcadian @ 3.378215
6 DK + French_Basque + IE + NO @ 3.438701
7 DK + French_Basque + IE + North_Swedish @ 3.441688
8 Cornish + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 3.468936
9 Cornish + Cornish + Cornish + Scottish @ 3.477782
10 FR + IE + IE + IE @ 3.479426
11 DK + DK + French_Basque + IE @ 3.483925
12 Cornish + English + IE + IE @ 3.489024
13 FR + IE + IE + Scottish @ 3.490188
14 Cornish + IE + IE + Scottish @ 3.532768
15 DK + French_Basque + North_Swedish + Scottish @ 3.547231
16 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Scottish @ 3.560595
17 DK + French_Basque + NO + Orcadian @ 3.571144
18 DK + French_Basque + NO + Scottish @ 3.572392
19 DK + DK + DK + French_Basque @ 3.584117
20 DK + French_Basque + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.587481

Done.

Elapsed time 0.1121 seconds.
23andMe Results (Mine)
6504
AncestryDNA Results (Brother)
6505
MyOrigins (Brother)

Britsh Isles 50-60%
Scandinavia 10-20%
Central Europe 5-10%
Eastern Europe 0-5%
Native American 0-2%
(i don't have the exact numbers, sorry)

I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 06:46 AM
Mostly NW european descent and Atlantid sub racial types.

anglesqueville
11-02-2015, 07:20 AM
50% English_Cornwall_GBR +25% Inkeri +25% Welsh @ 1.597969

Hi, Inkeri-brother! With Ultimate K13 I am myself: English_Cornwall_GBR+English_Kent_GBR+Germany_Nort h+Inkeri @ 1.2389. I presume that you have, like me, "ggogle-ized" the word "Inkeri".... :)

gruder
11-02-2015, 11:35 AM
Hi, anglesqueville! I did Google it as a matter of fact, lol. Thank you i1z63, I knew most of me comes from NW Europe, didnt know about the Atlantid part. I do look very southern European to everyone. People mostly classify me as Atlanto-Med based on my appearance, but it seems my genetics tell a different story, lol!

Scarlet Ibis
11-02-2015, 01:49 PM
Hi, anglesqueville! I did Google it as a matter of fact, lol. Thank you i1z63, I knew most of me comes from NW Europe, didnt know about the Atlantid part. I do look very southern European to everyone. People mostly classify me as Atlanto-Med based on my appearance, but it seems my genetics tell a different story, lol!

Welcome to Anthrogenica! If I may ask, what do your MDLP K23b calculator results look like?

Arbogan
11-02-2015, 03:35 PM
Hi, anglesqueville! I did Google it as a matter of fact, lol. Thank you i1z63, I knew most of me comes from NW Europe, didnt know about the Atlantid part. I do look very southern European to everyone. People mostly classify me as Atlanto-Med based on my appearance, but it seems my genetics tell a different story, lol!
I wouldn't worry very much about it. Just roll the dice of life. You look very north-west european autosomally.

anglesqueville
11-02-2015, 04:13 PM
I wouldn't worry very much about it. Just roll the dice of life. You look very north-west european autosomally.

100% agree. The old pseudo-scientific phenotypical genetics is dead, or nearly. One of the reasons why I like anthrogenica is that on here there is no sub-forum of the kind of " What alpinoids/nordics/mediterraneans/annunakis look like? Post photos". :laugh:

gruder
11-02-2015, 04:13 PM
MDLP K23B Results
# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 35.34
2 European_Early_Farmers 27.14
3 Caucasian 21.18
4 South_Central_Asian 7.92
5 Ancestral_Altaic 6.12

Thanks all!

EDIT: Should the Amerindian be paid attention to? I know it's minimal but it shows up on numerous tests. Also, when I do a test on gee match (I believe it's the Hunter Gatherer Test vs Farmer test), it shows South American Hunter Gatherer at roughly 2%. This doesn't have anything to do with my DNA but my closest match on 23andMe is a half European half Amerindian man with the haplogroup q13a3, a haplogroup concentrated in the Americas. It could be just noise, but then again, I don't know much about DNA/Gentetics. Bear with me here :P

J Man
11-02-2015, 04:46 PM
You are you mate. :)

jeanL
11-02-2015, 05:02 PM
I've always suspected that 23andme might underestimate Amerindian admixture in people with North American Amerindian admixture. The reason being that they lack samples from any of the North American indigenous people. It seems there is a discrepancy between what 23andme gives you(0.7%) and what the other calculators give you 1.5-2.0%. I'm sharing with someone who comes out 99.9% European and no amerindian, yet per the third party calculators he clearly shows signals of Amerindian admixture in several chromosomes, though they are small the biggest one being ~13% of his chromosome 12 or 13, so it could be noise, but the fact that it consistently comes out in several calculators makes me think that perhaps 23andme algorithm isn't that good at catching Northern Amerindian admixture.

Arbogan
11-02-2015, 05:19 PM
I mean you can't get more bona-fide west european than this, Y-dna wise:
"Y-DNA
R1b1b2a1a"

I've came to accept that as a certification of west-europeaness. it seems to specifically be exceptionally common amongst british isles people. It's what J1e is for afro-asiatic speaking populations.

Now J1 PZ72363, how that i came to share it with serbs, european jews, sardinians, saudis and ethiopians, that is a true mystery, which can't get more obscure.

gruder
11-02-2015, 06:01 PM
Yes, I looked into that haplogroup and it concentrates in Spain/France border (Basque) and Ireland, mostly in Ireland. Is there a link between these two cultures?

I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 10:42 PM
Thank you i1z63, I knew most of me comes from NW Europe, didnt know about the Atlantid part. I do look very southern European to everyone. People mostly classify me as Atlanto-Med based on my appearance, but it seems my genetics tell a different story, lol!

How does your genetics tell a different story? Genetics has little to do with phenotypes. I've been classified as north Atlantid many times but my background is not mostly NW European. Atlanto-Med is common in the south and west of europe. I can classify you if you want.

gruder
11-02-2015, 10:59 PM
Well, I assumed phenotypes had something to do with ancestry.

I am a member on Anthroscape. I'm sure you've heard of it before. There, people post pictures of faces and people try to guess and classify (guessify, as they call it) them. When I posted my pictures on there, they classified me as an Atlanto-Med and said I had something MENA/Mongoloid in me. I guess they were thrown off by my epicanthic fold. They guessed my origin was Spain, Italy, Portugal, and even Argentina.
Here's my face if you'd like to have a go at it :P
6511

I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 11:07 PM
Well, I assumed phenotypes had something to do with ancestry.

I am a member on Anthroscape. I'm sure you've heard of it before. There, people post pictures of faces and people try to guess and classify (guessify, as they call it) them. When I posted my pictures on there, they classified me as an Atlanto-Med and said I had something MENA/Mongoloid in me. I guess they were thrown off by my epicanthic fold. They guessed my origin was Spain, Italy, Portugal, and even Argentina.
Here's my face if you'd like to have a go at it :P
6511

Never heard of Anthroscape but anyway you're not a typical Atlanto-med, you either have Alpinid or some other CM element. You look like a teenager. Wait until you get in your 20's for a proper classification.

gruder
11-02-2015, 11:34 PM
Never heard of Anthroscape but anyway you're not a typical Atlanto-med, you either have Alpinid or some other CM element. You look like a teenager. Wait until you get in your 20's for a proper classification.

I can see where you get the Alpine. My mom was classified as Atlanto-Med slight Alpine, my dad was declared Atlanto-Med. I'm 19 by the way, and that picture was taken last year. When I grow out my beard I look a lot older! That's just the after-shave babyface effect! jk ;)

There are a lot of Irish people (according to these tests I'm roughly half) who have strong Mediterranean features, and can be classified as Atlanto-Med or even pure Med. My dad has jet-black hair, very hairy, and an aquiline nose, which are all typical characteristics of the Mediterranean type. Thank you.

I1-Z63
11-02-2015, 11:38 PM
I can see where you get the Alpine. My mom was classified as Atlanto-Med slight Alpine, my dad was declared Atlanto-Med. I'm 19 by the way, and that picture was taken last year. When I grow out my beard I look a lot older! That's just the after-shave babyface effect! jk ;)

There are a lot of Irish people (according to these tests I'm roughly half) who have strong Mediterranean features, and can be classified as Atlanto-Med or even pure Med. My dad has jet-black hair, very hairy, and an aquiline nose, which are all typical characteristics of the Mediterranean type. Thank you.

Np. wait a few more years for a classification. you look "western" imo anyway. Nothing MENA about you at all.

Krefter
11-03-2015, 12:39 AM
Looks like you're almost 100% British/Irish with some German.

MikeWhalen
11-03-2015, 02:22 PM
trying to draw conclusions of a persons heritage from a pic can be a tricky thing as has been noted on this site many times
Still, just for a lark and to maybe help out the OP I will throw in my 2cents

Firstly, I would not say British Isles at all and certainly not Irish...I don't mean anything by that, but that is the groupings I am most personally familiar with and just don't see it in you

My first impression, just off the top of my head and not paying attention to anything written was Spanish-ish. Don't know why, but that was first impression.
In looking at it again and a bit longer, I also get an impression of South American...not sure what country but maybe a mix of Spanish and a bit of native/indigenous stock?

Anyway, those are my guesses...good luck to you Gruder

Mike

DMXX
11-03-2015, 02:33 PM
Welcome, gruder!


Well, I assumed phenotypes had something to do with ancestry.

Certainly does. However, phenotype is not exclusively derived from genotype. The standard biological equation for it is phenotype = genotype x environment x time.

The one-to-one assertions you've read elsewhere, frankly, are the over-simplified musings of the uneducated. Most genetics textbooks summarise the genotype-phenotype discrepancy at least. You'll pick up some useful factoids here, I'm sure.



I am a member on Anthroscape. I'm sure you've heard of it before. There, people post pictures of faces and people try to guess and classify (guessify, as they call it) them.

Many of us here are keenly aware of the classifications/typology practice on those "raceboards". This forum does not facilitate such discussion.

As a forewarning, I'll be personally deleting any more pseudoscience that may manifest in this thread in keeping with the newly announced section 3.13 (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7-Terms-of-Service-and-Forum-Rules-Update&p=115813&viewfull=1#post115813). As such, let's keep the discussion oriented towards a far more objective domain (genetic ancestry).

Krefter
11-03-2015, 02:41 PM
Not everyone in every ethnic group looks the same. There's truth to the classifications they use at anthroscape but it's too simplistic.

gruder
11-05-2015, 01:20 AM
trying to draw conclusions of a persons heritage from a pic can be a tricky thing as has been noted on this site many times
Still, just for a lark and to maybe help out the OP I will throw in my 2cents

Firstly, I would not say British Isles at all and certainly not Irish...I don't mean anything by that, but that is the groupings I am most personally familiar with and just don't see it in you

My first impression, just off the top of my head and not paying attention to anything written was Spanish-ish. Don't know why, but that was first impression.
In looking at it again and a bit longer, I also get an impression of South American...not sure what country but maybe a mix of Spanish and a bit of native/indigenous stock?

Anyway, those are my guesses...good luck to you Gruder

Mike

Thank you Mike! Yes, I have to agree with you, I don't look very British Isles at all, but as I've learned on here, "never judge a book by its cover".

Also, sorry about bringing the "raceboards" here. I didn't know, but now I do. I have to say, over the past 4 days on this website, I've learned so much. I'm glad I found this website. Thanks all!

gruder
11-05-2015, 01:59 AM
Oh, and here's the results for my brothers ftDNA MyOrigins test, from his AncestryDNA kit. Ancestry told him he had around 12 percent Southern European, but ftDNA told him he had none. Strange, yet interesting. We both have around 90% Northwestern European and tiny bit of Native American. My Scandinavian was lower, but I didn't have any Eastern European.

6535

Oh, and is the Native still noise? Even if it shows up on two siblings on two different tests? It could be a coincidence it showed up on both of us.