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View Full Version : Another Change to myOrigins: Bye Bye Britain!



rms2
11-14-2015, 02:24 PM
Well, my myOrigins map has been changed yet again, and I've lost all my British Isles ancestry apparently.

6632

MikeWhalen
11-14-2015, 03:24 PM
poser

:)

Mike

Erik
11-14-2015, 04:00 PM
Mine remains the same.

rms2
11-14-2015, 04:16 PM
poser

:)

Mike

I'm gonna claim the La Tene Celt thing. :P

vettor
11-14-2015, 05:24 PM
I'm gonna claim the La Tene Celt thing. :P

so, you are now swiss ..............helvetian

MikeWhalen
11-14-2015, 05:26 PM
That's the spirit, F'em... Celts rule-hater's drool

Mike

Dubhthach
11-14-2015, 05:46 PM
Can't recall what mine was, but I'm showing up as
90% Insular
5% West/Central Europe
2% Finnish/Siberian
3% Central Asian

I had the Central Asian and Finnish bits on memory so I imagine it hasn't changed much.

Afshar
11-14-2015, 06:04 PM
Central asian has increased,and East asian decreased for my dad and niece. Mine remains the same

vettor
11-14-2015, 06:10 PM
mine is unchanged

70% french
8% southern europe
22% anatolian

jdean
11-14-2015, 06:58 PM
My Dad's down to just 38% Brit now, wondering how to break the news to him : )

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-14-2015, 07:04 PM
We Brits all came from somewhere else anyway. ;)

anglesqueville
11-14-2015, 07:46 PM
Well, my myOrigins map has been changed yet again, and I've lost all my British Isles ancestry apparently.

6632

They show me as 48% british isles, and you 0% ? I'm tempted to say (roughly): bullshit....

Gray Fox
11-14-2015, 08:15 PM
Still the same for me as well.. 57 percent British, 30 percent West/Central Europe etc.

Dubhthach
11-14-2015, 08:57 PM
They show me as 48% british isles, and you 0% ? I'm tempted to say (roughly): bullshit....

la Manche isn't that wide!

anglesqueville
11-14-2015, 09:20 PM
la Manche isn't that wide!

The Channel (norman word) is very narrow, yes. I have many reasons indeed to think so. What surprised (and frustrated) me is not my 48% (well, true or not, I'm pretty proud of it), but the 0% of rms2. These last weeks, we have seen many people who were angry against dna.land. I was tempted to ask them what they thought about myOrigins...

firemonkey
11-15-2015, 12:40 AM
Mine has stayed the same - British isles 61 Scandinavia 37 North Africa 1

Stephen1986
11-15-2015, 12:59 AM
My results (85% BI and 15% Scandinavia via 23andMe and 91% BI and 9% Scandinavian via Ancestry) and those of my brother (65% BI, 24% Western/Central Euro, 9% Scandinavian and 2% Eastern Middle Eastern) have remained the same for a while now.

Jean M
11-15-2015, 12:34 PM
Razib is working on the second version of MyOrigins right now. It will go up six clusters. Razib talked about why we were getting so many false negative clusters. We will have a northern and southern cluster. In the Siberian cluster, very few customers are going to be Siberian but Siberians turn out to be very important in the history of Eurasia and the New World. Many Native Americans will pick up this. There will be a Sardinian cluster. There will be some new Southern European clusters, The Balkan cluster will be the indigenous group mixed with Balkan people from the north.

http://www.ancestorcentral.com/11th-international-conference-on-genetic-genealogy/

rms2
11-16-2015, 12:32 PM
This current iteration of myOrigins is weird, because nearly all the surnames in my pedigree are British or Irish. The two exceptions that I know about come via a paternal third great grandmother, Margaret Camilla Micou, whose immigrant ancestors (my seventh great grandparents) came from Nantes in France, and a paternal fourth great grandmother, Amanda Snedeker, whose immigrant ancestors came from Overijssel in the Netherlands.

There may have been a few others, since there are some holes in my pedigree, but by far most of my ancestors were British or Irish.

Lirio100
11-16-2015, 02:45 PM
I hadn't realized there was a re-calculation going on--I had thought my results were a little weird to begin with and they're still weird now, only in a different way.

West Central Europe 71%
Scandinavian 14%
Eastern Europe 12%
Finland and Northern Siberia 4 %

I lost the little British I had, I have three lines going back to Great Britain, two English one Welsh. I had 1% Caucasus (!) gone. My Ashkenazi has disappeared into a larger Eastern Europe, and I have been given Finland and Northern Siberia, no idea where that came from. If I squint real hard I suppose it still fits my known, but it is surprising.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-16-2015, 05:54 PM
I don't really understand how they can define "British" when we have various genetic influences? Can they distinguish "British" U106 from continental U106?. I probably just don't understand the processes. :)

geebee
01-22-2016, 07:49 AM
What puzzles me is how how different close family members can be. I realize parents and siblings only share [an average of] 50% of their DNA, but sometimes the variation is actually by more than 50%.*

For example, I have results for my father (Bern), for three siblings (Curt, Kim, and Luci) and myself (Gary), and for my daughter (Kathryn) and her mother (Diane). I have two other siblings with 23andMe data, but it's v4 so not uploaded to FTDNA.

My father's results are extraordinarily general -- 100% Southern, Western, and Central Europe. One of the four offspring -- Kim -- with myOrigins results also has 100% Southern, Western, and Central Europe. Yet the other three of us have much more specific results, and not all of it is European.

Curt has 94% European, broken down as 44% British Isles, 33% Scandinavia, 11% Southern Europe, and 6% Western and Central Europe. He also has 4% Middle Eastern (Eastern Middle East), and 1% New World.

Luci has 89% European, as 58% British Isles, 16% Southern Europe, and 15% Scandinavian. In addition, she has 6% Jewish (Ashkenazi) Diaspora, 5% Middle Eastern (Eastern Middle East), and 1% East Asian (Northeast Asia).

I have 94% European, in the form of 50% British Isles, 30% Southern Europe, 13% Scandinavia, and 1% Finland and Northern Siberia. I also have 3% Central/South Asian (Central Asia), 2% Middle Eastern (Eastern Middle East), and 1% East Asian (Northeast Asia).

It actually seems to me that for people who share about 50% of their DNA with each other, the results for Curt, Luci, and me seem pretty consistent. I just can't figure out why Kim's (or my father's) results should be so non-specific.

Then there's the case of my daughter. Her mother has 93% European, as 87% British Isles, 5% Southern Europe, and 1% Eastern Europe; also 5% Middle Eastern (Asia Minor), and 2% Central/South Asian (Central Asia). Now, I can see why any of the smaller components might not be reflected in Kathryn's results, but all she actually gets is 100% European, in the form of 97% Southern, Western & Central Europe, plus 3% Finland and Northern Siberia.

(1) Where the heck is Kathryn's British Isles? If she'd simply gotten the average of her parents, she'd have 68.5%. But nada -- or rather, it's simply lumped in with the Southern, Western & Central Europe. But why?

(2) Even if Kathryn inherited all of my "Finland and Northern Siberia", why does she have 2% more than I do? The only thing I can figure is that she actually inherited a little of what FTDNA thinks is my "Northeast Asia" (which is really Native American), but myOrigins has decided it's more "Finland and Northern Siberia" -- though that still isn't enough to account for the difference.

Incidentally, 23andMe has all six of the siblings showing between 1.8% and 2.4% "East Asian and Native American" (almost entirely as Native American), and Kathryn shows 1.5%. AncestryDNA also reports "Native American" as a trace region for me, at 1%.

*According to DNA Relatives, I actually share 53.8% with Curt, 52.1% with Kim, and 49.9% with Luci. Curt shares 47.6% with Kim, and 46.0% with Luci. Kim and Luci share 45.1% with each other. The bottom line is that it's almost impossible that Kim doesn't have at least close to 50% British Isles ... but myOrigins couldn't see it.

GoldenHind
01-29-2016, 12:38 AM
My curiosity finally trumped my better judgment. so I decided to do Family Finder. Because most of my ancestors are comparatively recent immigrants to the USA, I know my ancestry is one half British (mostly English, part Welsh and Scots) and one half Scandinavian (mostly Danish, part Swedish). This is what i got from My origins:

European 92%

Scandinavia 58%
British isles 24%
Southern Europe 5%
Western and Central Europe5%

Middle Eastern 8%

Asia Minor 8%

I suppose the Asia Minor element could be partly from known R1b or unknown R1a ancestors and partly from my J mtDNA, which is thought to have come from the Middle East. The British Isles amount seems rather low, considering the amount of English ancestry I have.

I didn't expect this to be very reliable, but the 58% from Scandinavia is probably pretty accurate.

GailT
01-30-2016, 04:17 PM
I suppose the Asia Minor element could be partly from known R1b or unknown R1a ancestors and partly from my J mtDNA, which is thought to have come from the Middle East. The British Isles amount seems rather low, considering the amount of English ancestry I have.


The family finder myOrigins results is based only on autosomal DNA, so the y-DNA and mtDNA results will not affect myOrigins results.

Also, I don't think FTDNA has adequate reference populations to distinguish variation within Europe. In a previous iteration they had no reference population from Germany, so there was zero German ancestry in people who were 100% German. They seem to have partially addressed this by adding a "Western and Central European" group (not sure what reference population they use for this), but they still underestimate German ancestry in my parents' results, and they overestimate the British Isles and Scandinavia contributions.

rms2
01-30-2016, 04:39 PM
My myOrigins map changed back in August. I went from 43% British Isles to 0% British Isles, despite the fact that by far most of my ancestry stems from Britain and Ireland and very little from the Continent. Here are my myOrigins map from May of 2015 and my myOrigins map as it currently looks. I have no objection to being 98% Western and Central Europe and 2% Finland and Northern Siberia; I just don't think that is at all accurate in my case.

I have ordered the Ancestry DNA test to see what they come up with.

May 2015:

7544

Present (from August 2015):

7545

Of course, this is why I started this thread. I emailed FTDNA about this just a couple of days ago after waiting now for a few months for an update that does not look like it is coming.

GoldenHind
01-30-2016, 06:20 PM
The family finder myOrigins results is based only on autosomal DNA, so the y-DNA and mtDNA results will not affect myOrigins results.

Also, I don't think FTDNA has adequate reference populations to distinguish variation within Europe. In a previous iteration they had no reference population from Germany, so there was zero German ancestry in people who were 100% German. They seem to have partially addressed this by adding a "Western and Central European" group (not sure what reference population they use for this), but they still underestimate German ancestry in my parents' results, and they overestimate the British Isles and Scandinavia contributions.

I would have thought that autosomal DNA included Y and mtDNA as well, not only one's own, but also those of one's ancestors. Perhaps I am mistaken.

GoldenHind
01-31-2016, 01:24 AM
Having thought about it, I realized that I only have Ydna from my direct male line and mtDNA from my direct female line, so only those would be present in my DNA. Ydna and mtDNA from other ancestral lines would not be present anywhere in my DNA. Call it a senior moment.

rms2
02-05-2016, 01:02 AM
My myOrigins map changed back in August. I went from 43% British Isles to 0% British Isles, despite the fact that by far most of my ancestry stems from Britain and Ireland and very little from the Continent. Here are my myOrigins map from May of 2015 and my myOrigins map as it currently looks. I have no objection to being 98% Western and Central Europe and 2% Finland and Northern Siberia; I just don't think that is at all accurate in my case.

I have ordered the Ancestry DNA test to see what they come up with.

May 2015:

7544

Present (from August 2015):

7545

Of course, this is why I started this thread. I emailed FTDNA about this just a couple of days ago after waiting now for a few months for an update that does not look like it is coming.

I received an email answer from FTDNA on this subject. I don't think I am revealing any secrets by quoting from it here.



Thank you for your email. The matching algorithm is showing your DNA as most closely matching up with the Central European reference cluster. Now we commonly see those with British Isles ancestry matching up with this cluster, but in the case where both of your parents are matching up with the British isle cluster and you are not it is likely just a deficiency in the matching algorithm. The last I hear they were hoping to have a new update to the myOrigin tool aiming for before the summer. I have seen these things delayed in the past though.


Okay, so maybe a new, more accurate myOrigins algorithm is on its way by this summer.

Auntsha
02-15-2016, 05:48 PM
Actually rms2... They probably gave yours to my sister-in-law this time around. I just checked the accounts and she now has 31% British and there is no British anywhere in my husbands family. His mom and he have no trace. I get none and should have at least that much. The children none and two had at least Western Europe last time. My daughters now have more Southern Europe than is possible as they have more than I have. Jewish is now only showing up in my son now yet all their match lists are all Jewish from their fathers side. They come up with Askenazi every where else so it is in their DNA. I know this isn't an exact science but when families all test there should be some continuity. FTDNA is getting worse in their predictions as time goes by. They had it correct on their first ethnicity predictions for us 4 years ago. Now, not so much! Their database is also not attracting the Italian population either. I have seen no change with my matches indicating I have any Italian at all...I am half...so four years and no progress in that category is not good. Just venting over these new results. FTDNA is certainly marching to the beat of a different drummer and so happens the beat is really off!

Mac von Frankfurt
02-15-2016, 06:31 PM
56 percent Western and Central Europe and 44 percent British Isles for a total of 100 percent European.

This is the FTDNA interpretation of my 23andMe results.