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MikeWhalen
11-30-2015, 01:32 PM
this is about baboons, but you get my point...

I find it tiresome at times to hear critics of the human species that seem to be full of self loathing. They try to compare our behavior to that found in the 'natural world' in such a way to make it sound like 'we' are some insane bloodthirsty alien species when compared to all the nice 'hippy-like' critters out there

well folks, we are all just animals...in fact, its only 'us' that has the capacity to use our cognitive abilities to ignore or go against our harsher bloodthirsty hard wiring.

...sorry for the rant, but I have had to deal with a lot of strange people the last week or so


anyway, to a fascinating story about a power struggle amongst female baboons at the Toronto Zoo-a queens untimely death, a coup against the heir apparent, the chronic abuse of the weakest to make a larger point...its 'Game of Thrones', primate style

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/brutal-baboon-battle-erupts-throne-toronto-zoo-matriarch-150010119.html

Mike

Awale
12-01-2015, 04:30 AM
I find it tiresome at times to hear critics of the human species that seem to be full of self loathing. They try to compare our behavior to that found in the 'natural world' in such a way to make it sound like 'we' are some insane bloodthirsty alien species when compared to all the nice 'hippy-like' critters out there

I too find this obscene romantization of non-Human animals pretty fucking annoying. You'd be surprised how many of our vilest behaviours can be observed in nature. This is often, as DMXX once pointed out to me, the result of taking natural Human feelings we're supposed to feel toward our innocent young (babies et al.) and misplacing it by granting it to the likes of lions, goats or whatever the heck. Don't get me wrong, not supporting animal cruelty here but this obscene "I love animals more than people" trend is disgusting imho.


anyway, to a fascinating story about a power struggle amongst female baboons at the Toronto Zoo-a queens untimely death, a coup against the heir apparent, the chronic abuse of the weakest to make a larger point...its 'Game of Thrones', primate style

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/brutal-bab...150010119.html

Heh, I always love reading about (or watching) these power struggles, it often ends up looking like some primitive and humorous caricature of H. Sapien power struggles (sometimes they're not that primitive in comparison to our power struggles, lol). Thanks for the share, hombre.

DMXX
12-01-2015, 06:39 AM
This is often, as DMXX once pointed out to me, the result of taking natural Human feelings we're supposed to feel toward our innocent young (babies et al.) and misplacing it by granting it to the likes of lions, goats or whatever the heck. Don't get me wrong, not supporting animal cruelty here but this obscene "I love animals more than people" trend is disgusting imho.

That largely remains my current view when it comes to affection for animals that resembles the human affection for human babies. It is nothing more than a glitch of our evolutionary psychology. Best manifestation of that phenomenon I've seen these days is through militant vegan activists (many of them, such as the very popular Australian Freelee, hold some very misanthropic views (https://youtu.be/84FDUo599I0?t=50s)). They legitimately seem to love animals more than their own kind.

Although, after musing on the topic internally over the last month, it seems there is more to it than "human loving animals for the sake of it". We should recall that animal domestication (horses, dogs etc.) was a hugely important event in our developmental timeline as a species, representing the next step in our uniquely "human" ways of manipulating our broader environment. Forming emotional bonds with domesticated animals after the fact strengthens the desire to keep them within our micro-environment. It's perhaps no wonder that many of our favourite animals are ones we've domesticated.

That being said, other mechanisms account for why we celebrate animals that we've never fully domesticated (or can't). I have lions and sharks in mind. A more abstract form of affinity exists with these animals compared to horses and dogs I'd argue (veneration of their perceived attributes, which is another uniquely "human" thing; how many penguins celebrate the long necks of giraffes or the aesthetics of a Bruno Mars?).

It's a very interesting topic. I'm sure there's some insightful material along these lines in the literature. I've intentionally kept away from reading any theories to explore the ideas free-flow.

King
12-01-2015, 06:41 AM
I unfortunately was ingrained with some extremely unnecessary information about a certain animal from what seemed like a normal YouTube top 10 video about animals.. let me just say I absolutely hate intrusive unexpected information. I will never look at this animal in the same manner again. What this animal does is actually one of the most wickedest things that anyone on this planet could ever do, and it does it on a regular basis. Nature can be very sick.

DMXX
12-01-2015, 07:28 AM
I'm curious now, King...

Do you have the stomach to share this factoid with us?

Táltos
12-01-2015, 02:51 PM
All I can say is damn! And who did Bwana Joe end up with? lol They can call this Days of our Baboons, or As the Baboons Turn? Okay I'll stop.

MikeWhalen
12-01-2015, 05:52 PM
I was afraid you might go to 'The Guiding Primate' or 'Coronation Tree-top'

Mike

(resist, resist the temptation....nope)
sorry, but monkey see, monkey do!

King
12-01-2015, 06:02 PM
I'm curious now, King...

Do you have the stomach to share this factoid with us?

Ugh. I hate to type it out but since you asked.

Warning: The following content is highly disturbing, you may regret knowing this information.

Sea Otters will kidnap babies and then proceed to rape them to death (the rape of the baby will go on for more than an hour). Once the baby is dead, it will continue to rape its dead decaying corpse for up to a week later. Sea Otters are pedophiles, rapists, and deranged psychotic animals. We are talking about babies here! When I first heard that my entire core shook up. Ruined my day tbh.

Táltos
12-01-2015, 09:20 PM
Ugh. I hate to type it out but since you asked.

Warning: The following content is highly disturbing, you may regret knowing this information.

Sea Otters will kidnap babies and then proceed to rape them to death (the rape of the baby will go on for more than an hour). Once the baby is dead, it will continue to rape its dead decaying corpse for up to a week later. Sea Otters are pedophiles, rapists, and deranged psychotic animals. We are talking about babies here! When I first heard that my entire core shook up. Ruined my day tbh.

:puke:

King
12-01-2015, 10:42 PM
:puke:

I know. The video was titled something like top 10 Vicious Animals, or top 10 cute animals you didn't know were vicious (I can't remember, but something along those lines). I was expecting to watch something about lions and tigers hunting and their packs and stuff, but instead I got sea otters do x (and I'm like wtf!?) and afterwards they do y (that's when i click off). I was super mad, the video had like a bunch of views and highly liked, I was like who the hell would sit there and listen to these facts..this video should be thumbs'd down to oblivion. Very unnecessary information. No1 needs to know or should know this stuff. It was a youtube channel that had a bunch of interesting (with the exception of this list) top 10 lists.

DMXX
12-01-2015, 11:53 PM
Yeah, just looked into that. It's definitely a real phenomenon. Nature surprises...

miiser
12-02-2015, 01:37 AM
That being said, other mechanisms account for why we celebrate animals that we've never fully domesticated (or can't). I have lions and sharks in mind. A more abstract form of affinity exists with these animals compared to horses and dogs I'd argue (veneration of their perceived attributes, which is another uniquely "human" thing; how many penguins celebrate the long necks of giraffes or the aesthetics of a Bruno Mars?).

For creatures such as sharks and lions, in addition to admiration of their natural abilities, such as hunting prowess and physical strength, I suspect that in modern times it has to do with trying to impress other humans by making a demonstration of how socially advanced, open minded, selfless, and understanding one is that they can love a natural enemy. A person may even manage to convince themselves that they have loving feelings toward a shark, but this is just a psychological trick to make them feel good about themselves.

The latest episode of South Park perfectly illustrates, mockingly, the psychology of this politically correct sort of behavior.