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TigerMW
12-11-2015, 12:27 AM
I received a notice from FTDNA they had this new pack forthe $99 introductory price. This came a little faster than I thought. I suspect strongly there are some last minute adds needed. I'll look at the ht35 project M269+ U106- P312- tree that Sergey kindly does and see if I can discern updates needed. Help!

R1b-Z2103 SNP Pack
Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:

PF3252, CTS7822, CTS9219, CTS9230, CTS11767, CTS7959, CTS9906, L25, CTS9940, PF3928, F2610, CTS1039, CTS2791, CTS8563, CTS699, CTS7763, CTS1848, Z1862, CTS6937, M64, L584, Z2103, Z2106, Z2109, F2017, CTS3937, PF7580, L943, S3793, Z2108, Z2105, BY250, BY251, BY3293, BY3294, BY3295, BY3296, BY3297, BY3298, BY3299, BY593, BY611, CTS1450, CTS7556, FGC14590, FGC14592, Y5593, Y5592, Y5591, Y5590, Y5587, Y5586, Y4372, Y4370, Y4369, Y4368, Y4367, Y4366, Y4365, Y4364, Y4363, Y4362, Y16151, Y16150, Y16149, Y16147, Y16146, Y16145, Y16144, Y16143, Y16142, Y16140, Y15983, Y15982, Y14515, Y14514, Y14513, Y14512, Y14511, Y14422, Y14420, FGC14593, FGC14594, FGC14595, FGC14597, FGC14598, FGC14600, FGC14601, FGC14602, FGC14604, FGC14605, FGC14607, FGC14608, FGC14610, FGC14611, FGC14614, FGC14615, FGC14617, FGC14618, FGC14619, FGC14620, FGC14622, FGC14624, FGC14625, FGC14626, FGC14628, FGC14629, FGC29330, Y14416, Y14415, Y14414, Y14306, Y13370, Y13369, Y13095, Y11810, SK2097, S17864, PH963, PH5142, PH4996, PH4902, PH4505, PH3362, PH317, PH2789, PH2302, PH2147, PH1639, PF3449, L946, L945, L944, KMS75

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
S7721, Z8131, Z29836, Z29834, Z29833, Z29831, Z29830, Z29829, Z29826, Z29824, Z29823, Z29382, Y16005, SK2094, SK2087, PH544, PF7574, M12135, M12133

TigerMW
12-11-2015, 01:07 PM
... I suspect strongly there are some last minute adds needed. I'll look at the ht35 project M269+ U106- P312- tree that Sergey kindly does and see if I can discern updates needed. Help!....
Good news. The ht35 project thinks FTDNA found most of the right SNPs.

Here is the current request list for last minute adds:

15080170-C-T
18945942-C-T
09386965-G-T
Y18687 07512670-T-C
17463380-T-G

I've also been looking at the YFull tree for Z2103 but I admit it's a real eye test and not conducive to downloading unfortunately. Perhaps a Z2103 YFull expert sees SNPs needed.
http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2103/

Here is Sergey's tree from Nov 22nd as posted on the M269 ht35 project.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ht-3-5new/about/background

:) My thanks to Sergey M as I suspect that his work facilitated this pack, which in turn will probably impact FTDNA's haplotree. I'm not sure what all happened in the background but Sergey's efforts must have had an impact.

Anyway, last call for last minute adds! Please post any feedback here. I can get it to the FTDNA Y tree team.

smal
12-11-2015, 07:07 PM
There are some strange SNPs
F2017 (N-L666 and R-CTS43)
Z29382 (C-Y10490 and R-M225)
They are not available in the FTDNA Z2103 tree and I do not know any positive Z2103 samples for these SNPs.

Jeffrey
12-14-2015, 05:21 PM
A question about the new R1b-Z2103 SNP Pack test. Under BY250 the SNP Pack lists Y15983 and Y16143 which are OK and listed in this project and the Y-Tree, but FTDNA next has BY3297 which is not list anywhere, Is this SNP Equivalent to Y17988? Also the Y-Tree has listed Y18455 under Y17988, is this project and FTDNA going to add this SNP?

Joe B
12-15-2015, 11:07 PM
A question about the new R1b-Z2103 SNP Pack test. Under BY250 the SNP Pack lists Y15983 and Y16143 which are OK and listed in this project and the Y-Tree, but FTDNA next has BY3297 which is not list anywhere, Is this SNP Equivalent to Y17988? Also the Y-Tree has listed Y18455 under Y17988, is this project and FTDNA going to add this SNP?Jeffrey, Welcome to the Anthrogenica forum. I see your question was answered at the project. Thanks for ordering the R1b-Z2103 SNP Pack test. Let us know how it turns out. A draft copy of the SNPs included in the R1b-Z2103 SNP Pack highlighted using the Z2103 section of the R1b-M269 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) Phylogenetic Tree is posted here.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ht-3-5new/about/goals
I'll remove or change it once a verified version is made.

Geolocke
12-18-2015, 09:02 PM
Thank you to all who made this Z2103 SNP Pack possible. I noted that FT-DNA updated their Y R-tree before the email was sent out. My terminal SNP has now been switched to Z2109, although it should really be CTS7822 (next level down). I will be ordering this SNP Pack for my self and have suggested that others in the Bristol Channel project also order it (those who haven't already taken Big-Y) I know that Kit 64401 has already ordered the SNP Pack. Hopefully we'll get a few more orders.

Thanks again for this early Christmas Present. -geo

rick_r
12-23-2015, 04:02 AM
I am pretty happy that we've got another Robbins to do a big Y test. Man, what a Christmas present that is. I am interested in what the matches will bring in the New Year. As the Y-DNA STR match up pretty closely, the SNP I would imagine would differ slightly as well, but I am HOPING that the triangulation at some point could lead to common novel SNP that match that may lead to some sort of clue as to an origin. Not many people in the group are believing in an alternative location for the source of the DNA, but it is leading to the East more and more.

Geolocke
12-23-2015, 09:05 PM
So far in the Bristol Channel Project we have three (3) Z2103 orders, Bennett, Locke, and Smith. I hope to get Coat and at least one other surname represented. Y'all have a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year!

TigerMW
12-29-2015, 01:15 AM
So far in the Bristol Channel Project we have three (3) Z2103 orders, Bennett, Locke, and Smith. I hope to get Coat and at least one other surname represented. Y'all have a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year!
Are we making any headway with people from Armenia, Turkey, Greece and Southern Italy? Those would be a great audience for the Z2103 pack.

Geolocke
12-31-2015, 02:18 AM
AS an added side note, I tested my wife's nephew to get her father's side of the tree and signed him up with the Wood project. While looking through that project's results page, I noticed several kits that fit the STR profile for Z2103. I have asked the Wood Project manager if they would mind if I sent those members an invitation to join the Bristol Channel project. If so, then I would also ask them to join the ht35 project. Kit numbers are as follows:
Group 06
N84896
39187
150689
224059
N38442
50154
22264
17997
198002
45996
Group 46
181639
325795
414617
Ungrouped
289660
26278
N60120
132602

Joe B
01-04-2016, 05:12 PM
AS an added side note, I tested my wife's nephew to get her father's side of the tree and signed him up with the Wood project. While looking through that project's results page, I noticed several kits that fit the STR profile for Z2103. I have asked the Wood Project manager if they would mind if I sent those members an invitation to join the Bristol Channel project. If so, then I would also ask them to join the ht35 project. Kit numbers are as follows:
Group 06
N84896
39187
150689
224059
N38442
50154
22264
17997
198002
45996
Group 46
181639
325795
414617
Ungrouped
289660
26278
N60120
132602
Thanks George. Predicting R1b-Z2103 haplotypes based on DYS393=12 in western Europe can be tricky.
Group 06 is DYS492=13 and about 90-95% of the time that indicates U106+. One of them is R1b-L47 which is a subclade of R1b-U106.
Group 46 has a guy in the R1b-ZZ12_1 haplogroup so I'm guessing that they are P312+.
The ungrouped guys just don't have enough STR markers to make a good guess. They would probably be better served by the tier one R1b-M343 Backbone SNP Pack test test and followed up by a more specific tier two pack based on the results. Of course they could just skip ahead and take a NGS test.
Please keep looking. The R1b-M269 (P312- U106-) DNA Project depends on it. The Bristol Channel DNA project, with it's emphasis on R1b-CTS7822, works well with the R1b-M269 (P312- U106-) DNA Project. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ht-3-5new/links

Geni
01-08-2016, 05:44 PM
I made the test..i'm waiting...momentan i am R -BY611
----------------A1773-, A2150-, A274-, A4670-, A517-, BY2823-, BY2868-, BY575-, BY611+, BY653-, CTS10429-, CTS11567-, CTS11994-, CTS1751-, CTS3386-, CTS3937-, CTS4466-, CTS4528-, CTS5330-, CTS5689-, CTS6937-, CTS7763-, DF103-, DF110-, DF17-, DF19-, DF21-, DF41-, DF49-, DF63-, DF81-, DF83-, DF88-, DF95-, DF99-, F2017-, F2691-, F2863-, FGC10516-, FGC11134-, FGC13620-, FGC20761-, FGC22501-, FGC396-, FGC5301-, FGC5336-, FGC5344-, FGC5345-, FGC5351-, FGC5354-, FGC5356-, FGC5367-, FGC5373-, FGC5494-, FGC5798-, L1335-, L150+, L2-, L21-, L23+, L238-, L277-, L278+, L371-, L389+, L408-, L47-, L48-, L51-, L513-, L584-, L617-, L881-, M1994-, M222-, M269+, M335-, M343+, M73-, MC14-, P297+, P310-, P311-, P312-, PF3252-, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7562-, PF7589-, PF7600-, S1026-, S1051-, S11493-, S11601-, S12025-, S1567-, S16264-, S1688-, S18632-, S18827-, S7721-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, V88-, Y5058-, YSC0000072-, Z156-, Z16500-, Z17-, Z17300-, Z18-, Z1862-, Z195-, Z198-, Z209-, Z2103+, Z2105+, Z2109+, Z225-, Z251-, Z253-, Z2542-, Z255-, Z2573-, Z295-, Z296-, Z301-, Z302-, Z326-, Z36-, Z367-, Z381-, Z49-, Z8-, Z8052-, Z8056-, Z9--------------------------------------------------------

Akatosh86
02-01-2016, 08:31 AM
That's one nice offer. Just ordered it and kind of feel sad didn't order Big Y after all (especially at this moment), but when it comes to price/quality this one made more sense

Geni
02-06-2016, 09:51 AM
Now i am R-PH544
____________________________


A1773-, A2150-, A274-, A4670-, A517-, BY250-, BY251-, BY2823-, BY2868-, BY3293-, BY3294-, BY3295-, BY3296-, BY3297-, BY3298-, BY3299-, BY575-, BY593-, BY611+, BY611+, BY653-, CTS1039-, CTS10429-, CTS11567-, CTS11767-, CTS11994-, CTS1450+, CTS1751-, CTS1848-, CTS2791-, CTS3386-, CTS3937-, CTS4466-, CTS4528-, CTS5330-, CTS5689-, CTS6937-, CTS6937-, CTS699-, CTS7556+, CTS7763-, CTS7763-, CTS7822+, CTS7959-, CTS8563-, CTS9219+, CTS9230-, CTS9906-, CTS9940-, DF103-, DF110-, DF17-, DF19-, DF21-, DF41-, DF49-, DF63-, DF81-, DF83-, DF88-, DF95-, DF99-, F2017-, F2610-, F2691-, F2863-, FGC10516-, FGC11134-, FGC13620-, FGC14590-, FGC14592-, FGC14593-, FGC14594-, FGC14595-, FGC14597-, FGC14598-, FGC14600-, FGC14601-, FGC14602-, FGC14604-, FGC14605-, FGC14607-, FGC14608-, FGC14610-, FGC14611-, FGC14614-, FGC14615-, FGC14617-, FGC14618-, FGC14619-, FGC14620-, FGC14622-, FGC14624-, FGC14625-, FGC14626 *, FGC14628-, FGC14629-, FGC20761-, FGC22501-, FGC29330-, FGC396-, FGC5301-, FGC5336-, FGC5344-, FGC5345-, FGC5351-, FGC5354-, FGC5356-, FGC5367-, FGC5373-, FGC5494-, FGC5798-, KMS75-, L1335-, L150+, L2-, L21-, L23+, L23+, L238-, L25-, L277-, L278+, L371-, L389+, L408-, L47-, L48-, L51-, L51-, L513-, L584-, L584-, L617-, L881-, L943-, L944-, L945-, L946-, M12133-, M12135-, M1994-, M222-, M269+, M335-, M343+, M64-, M73-, MC14-, P297+, P310-, P310-, P311-, P311-, P312-, P312-, PF3252-, PF3252-, PF3449-, PF3928-, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7562-, PF7574-, PF7580-, PF7589-, PF7600-, PH1639-, PH2147-, PH2302-, PH2789-, PH317 *, PH3362-, PH4505-, PH4902-, PH4996-, PH5142-, PH544+, PH963-, S1026-, S1051-, S11493-, S11601-, S12025-, S1567-, S16264-, S1688-, S17864 *, S18632-, S18827-, S3793-, S7721-, S7721-, SK2087-, SK2094-, SK2097-, SRY2627-, U106-, U106-, U152-, V88-, Y11810-, Y13095-, Y13369-, Y13370-, Y14306-, Y14414-, Y14415-, Y14416-, Y14420-, Y14422-, Y14511-, Y14512-, Y14513-, Y14514-, Y14515-, Y15982-, Y15983-, Y16005-, Y16140-, Y16142-, Y16143-, Y16144-, Y16145-, Y16146-, Y16147-, Y16149-, Y16150-, Y16151-, Y4362-, Y4363-, Y4364-, Y4365-, Y4366-, Y4367-, Y4368-, Y4369-, Y4370-, Y4372-, Y5058-, Y5586-, Y5587-, Y5590+, Y5591 *, Y5592+, Y5593+, YSC0000072-, Z156-, Z16500-, Z17-, Z17300-, Z18-, Z1862-, Z1862-, Z195-, Z198-, Z209-, Z2103+, Z2103+, Z2103+, Z2105+, Z2105+, Z2106 *, Z2108+, Z2109+, Z2109+, Z225-, Z251-, Z253-, Z2542-, Z255-, Z2573-, Z29382-, Z295-, Z296-, Z29823-, Z29824-, Z29826-, Z29829-, Z29830-, Z29831-, Z29833-, Z29834-, Z29836-, Z301-, Z302-, Z326-, Z36-, Z367-, Z381-, Z49-, Z8-, Z8052-, Z8056-, Z8131+, Z9-

smal
02-06-2016, 09:13 PM
We have first results of the Z2103 SNP Pack.
1.Unfortunately, they do not include the following markers
BY3716, BY3717, BY3718, BY3719, CTS7078, F2107, L277, M12134, PF331, PH1141, PH2731, SK2092, Y18687, Y18787, Y18958, Y18959.
I wonder whether they will be added later.

2. The FGC14626, PH317, S17864, Y5591, Z2106 markers do not produce reliable results.
FGC14626, S17864, Y5591, and Z2106 have equivalents in the Pack. However. we need to replace PH317.
I think PH510 can be a good equivalent.

Geolocke
02-06-2016, 10:22 PM
We have our Z2103 results in for the Bristol Channel Group. It appears that we have three distinct groups in the main part of the project, with a possible fourth group once (if) they are tested.

Confirmed CTS7822+ CTS9219- (group-a) DYS393=11 & DYS390=23 (has not taken Z2103 SNP Pack)
Confirmed CTS7822+ CTS9219- (group-b) DYS385 = [11-14] is FGC29330 (BY3299)
Confirmed CTS7822+ CTS9219- (group-c) DYS385 = [11-15] is BY3298
Confirmed CTS7822+ CTS9219+ is BY251 (BY250) (has taken Big-Y, but not Z2103 SNP Pack)

Humanist
02-09-2016, 06:10 AM
Two members of the Assyrian Project received their results recently:

Kit 433071 is derived for FGC14594. SNP Y18687 is shown in blue, indicating "test available."
Kit 131176 is derived for both FGC14594 and FGC14598. SNP Y18687 is shown in red, indicating "tested negative."

Two questions, that hopefully someone (Joe B, smal?) can answer.

1. Are the results for FGC14598 reliable?
2. Why was Y18687 tested for one kit, and not the other?

smal
02-09-2016, 09:58 AM
1. Are the results for FGC14598 reliable?


Yes, Kit 433071 does not belong to the R-FGC14598 branch.



2. Why was Y18687 tested for one kit, and not the other?

Because Y18687 was later added in the Pack. From the 25 Z2103 Pack tested kits in R1b-M269/ht35 project only 2 were tested for Y18687. One can receive results for SNPs that were available in the Pack in the payment day.

Geolocke
02-13-2016, 12:28 AM
I've been reviewing the results of some members of the Bristol Channel Project who upgraded their kits with the Z2103 SNP Pack.

According to the Z2103 SNP Pack order description, this SNP Pack included the following SNPs that are not currently listed on the (FT-DNA's) R Y-Haplotree:

PF331, S7721, Z8131, Z29836, Z29834, Z29833, Z29831, Z29830, Z29829, Z29826, Z29824, Z29823, Z29382, SK2094, SK2087, PF7574, M12133, M12134, SK2092, CTS7078, BY3718, F2107, Y18787, BY3719, Y18959

Of these extra SNPs that were to be tested, there was no data returned with the member's results for the following SNPs:
BY3718, BY3719, CTS7078, M12134, PF331, SK2092, Y18787, Y18959.

There was no data returned at all; neither true, false, no call or heterozygous call. the SNPs were simply not listed.

Were these SNPs removed from the Pack?

Geolocke
02-13-2016, 12:46 AM
According to the Z2103 SNP Pack order description, this SNP Pack included the following SNPs that are not currently listed on the (FT-DNA's) R Y-Haplotree:

PF331, S7721, Z8131, Z29836, Z29834, Z29833, Z29831, Z29830, Z29829, Z29826, Z29824, Z29823, Z29382, SK2094, SK2087, PF7574, M12133, M12134, SK2092, CTS7078, BY3718, F2107, Y18787, BY3719, Y18959

In reference to my previous message, of the remaining "extra" SNPs that were included with the Z2103 SNP Pack and for which results were returned, the four members that participated in the Z2103 SNP Pack returned results showing that all remaining SNPs returned FALSE results *EXCEPT* for Z8131 (all true) and F2107 (47778 & 237225=false and 64409 & 107114 = no call or heterozygous call).

47778, 107114, & 237225 all in group-b in the project and 64409 is in group-c, so I'm thinking that perhaps F2107 is unstable, but this is such a small dataset that I can't really make any call on it at this scale.

Perhaps the ht35 folks have a better handle on this with the larger dataset available to them.