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Constantine
12-13-2015, 07:29 AM
Excuse any ignorance, but this means I'm actually just J2? Like the oldest, the root of all the rest?

Or is their testing just too "coarse" to determine anything further?

paulgill
12-13-2015, 07:48 AM
Not necessarily, 23andme doesn't test you for many Y SNPs, it only give you your basic haplogroup. Take a FullGenomes WGS test or Geno 2.0 next generation or a J2 SNPs Pack Panel at FTDNA. Full Genomes Y Elite 2.0 be the best, WGS also be great, the other two may also give you some idea if the J2 SNPs on your line are included in them.

Petr
12-13-2015, 09:05 AM
23andMe uses old haplotree (2010 version) and test not so many SNPs. But you can still improve the results by using 3rd party tools, like http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/23andme-to-ysnps.html and http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/isogg-y-tree-addon-for-google-chrome.html I have an example when original 23andMe "J2" result was improved to J2a1h2a1. Here is the result:
http://i67.tinypic.com/24ew2mb.png
Red means negatve, green positive.

Or you can do everything manually, check the current tree at http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html and test individual SNPs. In the above mentioned case:
1. Go to http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html
2. You can see that J2a1h2a1 means L397 positive
3. Go to http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html
4. You can see L397 positive means mutation G->C at SNP rs35182651 or position 22725065 (GRCh37).
5. Log in to your 23andMe account
6. Check rs35182651 SNP: https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer/snp/?snp_name=rs35182651
And you see:
http://i68.tinypic.com/9qia9s.png

Besides of the above mentioned tests you can use FTDNA BigY test, it covers less SNPs than FGC Elite, but it is also cheaper.

Petr
12-13-2015, 09:20 AM
Additional information regarding the tests.

This is the tree of the a.m. J2 person generated using BigY raw data: http://www.yfull.com/share/yreport/73a438d0a81c976d3644903d749096b6/

So you see that this person's haplogroup was determined as J-PF5456.

If you would like to get this result by using FTDNA SNP packs, you will have to use 2 of them, at first "J2 - M172 SNP Pack" and then "J2 - M67 & L24 SNP Pack". The first step could be avoided by using the detail analysis of 23andMe results as shown above.

paulgill
12-13-2015, 11:10 AM
Additional information regarding the tests.

This is the tree of the a.m. J2 person generated using BigY raw data: http://www.yfull.com/share/yreport/73a438d0a81c976d3644903d749096b6/

So you see that this person's haplogroup was determined as J-PF5456.

If you would like to get this result by using FTDNA SNP packs, you will have to use 2 of them, at first "J2 - M172 SNP Pack" and then "J2 - M67 & L24 SNP Pack". The first step could be avoided by using the detail analysis of 23andMe results as shown above.

For the price of 2 SNP Packs, he can have FullGenomes 2x WGS and that will tale care of his yDNA and mtDNA SNPs. Otherwise after those 2 SNP Packs he will still have to test for further SNPs, a much more expensive alternative. 4x WGS be better though.

Petr
12-13-2015, 12:02 PM
I think WGS 2x is not very useful for Y SNP determination. I have WGS 10x and the results are very poor, at present I'm waiting for YFull analysis. At present I see just ChrY BAM file size: 0.15 Gb - for FGC Elite it is 2.56 Gb, i.e. 17x more. Mean coverage of Elite is 76x, median 37x. BigY has ChrY BAM size 0.58 Gb with mean coverage 81x and median 54x. ChrY length coverage for BigY is 56 %, for FGC Elite 89 % and for FGC WGS 10x I will see. Expected date: 01/03/2016.

Illyro-Vlach
12-13-2015, 08:45 PM
Petr this is fantastic so thank you for laying it out like this. However, how do you explain the following:


You can see L397 positive means mutation G->C at SNP rs35182651 or position 22725065 (GRCh37).

To be precise, how do you know that a positive mutation means G->C? I'm a J2B2* as per 23andMe so the first one I tested was rs8179022 which falls under M241 and I got the following:

DDX3Y 15018459 rs8179022 A or G A

I don't know whether this means a positive mutation or not.

Illyro-Vlach
12-13-2015, 08:49 PM
Petr this is fantastic so thank you for laying it out like this. However, how do you explain the following:



To be precise, how do you know that a positive mutation means G->C? I'm a J2B2* as per 23andMe so the first one I tested was rs8179022 which falls under M241 and I got the following:

DDX3Y 15018459 rs8179022 A or G A

I don't know whether this means a positive mutation or not.

So I take a look at the longest table and note that it mentions G->A which means I got it on the first try.

Cloudstones
02-03-2016, 08:27 PM
According to 23andMe, I'm J2a1b*.
I wanted to see if I can go further so I checked for M-92 (rs2032648) T->C. If I'm A or T T, does this mean I'm negative for J2a1b1? I'm sorry but I'm still new to this.

MfA
09-05-2016, 05:22 PM
23andMe's J2 could be anything that's not reducted in the picture below

https://abload.de/img/23andme_j2ytreee6rud.png

J Man
09-05-2016, 05:47 PM
23andme calls me just J2 but in reality I am in a subclade of J2a.

vettor
09-05-2016, 06:07 PM
23andme calls me just J2 but in reality I am in a subclade of J2a.

you are lucky, I would have thought 23andme would have you as just J

Wound Man
02-27-2017, 10:20 PM
23andme initially assigned me to J2a1b* and now with the newer nomenclature they uptook it shows my haplogroup as J-M172 with no further subclades.

bsman
06-07-2017, 02:40 PM
I was also tested by 23andme. Initially, I was J2. Then, the results were modified as M172, and within the past couple of weeks, it has now narrowed down to L70. Apparently, 23andme are doing some backfill in terms of classification based on results?

Torc Seanathair
06-07-2017, 05:20 PM
My father-in-law was J2-M172, then tested positive for SK1337. He is of Scottish heritage, with many Y surname matches in Scotland. The bulk of all SK1337's tested to date are of Scottish and southern Irish heritage, yet I'd be reluctant to conclude that it is old-line Celtic.

VictorIII
01-02-2018, 02:41 PM
Hello my paternal line has also tested positive for sk1337. Right now the genealogies goes back until the early 1600s, still in southern Italy - but the oral history of the family has always been the family came from France (Normans?) before Italy. the etymology of the surname might suggest the same as it is French Latin. What is interesting to me is my 0 distance 12 marker matches which I place as having a paternal ancestor in common around 750-1100 a.d.

The matches were with several members of one English family - Hopkins, a German family (with a surname that suggest a potential French origin), a *northern* Italian family Berni, and again an English family Burney (the connection between Berni and Burney being more obvious of course) and one other southern Italian family.

When we consider that there were no other 12 marker 0 distance matches with anyone from the east or many other Italians - the only distinct diaspora that supports the spread from one paternal ancestor living approx. 750-1100 a.d., to northern Italy, England, southern Italy, and Germany (by way of France) and no where else - is that of the normans. Certainly a family living in Western Europe around the year 1000 a.d.

There have been dozens and dozens of English (and many Scottish as I understand it), French, and Italians confirmed as sk1337, and itís known that an even broader grouping of j2 was present with Normans as French Gallic.

I wonder what would be the time distance between sk1337 and my 0 distance 12 marker matches? These matches and I would be more definable than just sk1337? When approximately did sk1337 break?

Thanks!

Torc Seanathair
01-03-2018, 06:30 PM
20595
These are the personal matches in Europe from FTDNA at 12 Markers.

Torc Seanathair
01-06-2018, 01:09 AM
I wonder what would be the time distance between sk1337 and my 0 distance 12 marker matches? These matches and I would be more definable than just sk1337? When approximately did sk1337 break?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

So from the yfull tree, SK1337 is one of the +23 SNP's listed with J-Y16179 - formed 3400 ybp, TMRCA550ybp


20609

VictorIII
01-10-2018, 04:14 PM
Thanks Torc! Are those 12 marker matches 0 genetic distance? Do they have any connection on 25 markets, say 1 or 2 distance? Iíve ordered big-y and in two months should be able to refine my haplogroup from sk1337. There are some current refinements from sk1337 that have ages of only 500 years ago or so - if Iím lucky enough to get into more recent time, even 1,000 years ago, itíll shed incredible insight into my familyís history. Iíll keep you all posted and please let me know if your father in law finds out more on his end!

Torc Seanathair
01-10-2018, 06:19 PM
Yes, GD=0 is red, GD=1 is orange, GD=2 is yellow, and GD=3 is green. Here are the maps for 25 and 37 markers. The Greek and Turk markers disappeared.
20694
20695

VictorIII
01-10-2018, 07:42 PM
I suspected as much with the Greek and Turk markers, thanks for the confirmation! (and just to confirm - all those 12 marker 0 genetic distance matches must inherently be sk1337 since the former deals in much more recent time than the formation of sk1337?)

It's interesting that sk1337 was formed 3400 years ago and that the most recent or last break was 550 years ago. How do we proceed to find where my family and your father in laws parted in the last 3400 years? i'll be uploading the big-y results on yfull but until then is there any comparison we can do from my y-111 results on familytreedna?

thanks Torc!

Batroun
01-10-2018, 09:39 PM
23andMe uses old haplotree (2010 version) and test not so many SNPs. But you can still improve the results by using 3rd party tools, like http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/23andme-to-ysnps.html and http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/isogg-y-tree-addon-for-google-chrome.html I have an example when original 23andMe "J2" result was improved to J2a1h2a1. Here is the result:
http://i67.tinypic.com/24ew2mb.png
Red means negatve, green positive.

Or you can do everything manually, check the current tree at http://www.isogg.org/tree/index.html and test individual SNPs. In the above mentioned case:
1. Go to http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html
2. You can see that J2a1h2a1 means L397 positive
3. Go to http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html
4. You can see L397 positive means mutation G->C at SNP rs35182651 or position 22725065 (GRCh37).
5. Log in to your 23andMe account
6. Check rs35182651 SNP: https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer/snp/?snp_name=rs35182651
And you see:
http://i68.tinypic.com/9qia9s.png

Besides of the above mentioned tests you can use FTDNA BigY test, it covers less SNPs than FGC Elite, but it is also cheaper.

Hello, I downloaded this program and used my 23andMe data but i got a huge list of Y-SNP-Derived-RSID-Chromosome-Position-Genotype i dont understand any of it haha


Edit: NVM i got it, it just very tedious work to enter every Y-SNP manually and put - or + haha