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Kurd
12-13-2015, 10:22 PM
I have always been mystified by words Pashto and Kurdi have in common, but are significantly different in Farsi, Urdu, and Arabic. So I started a spreadsheet and uploaded it to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yWIbxlifSPMnnOAiASMJix-7UmxY_xYuttN8MWfYbx8/edit?usp=sharing
Since my Farsi is limited to any overlapping words with Urdu and Kurdi, I have not completed the Farsi column for words that I am not confident of in Farsi. If you are fluent in Farsi, I would appreciate it if you can fill in the corresponding Farsi word. Please use Farsi and not Dari, because Dari has some Pashto loan words.

If you can think of any other words that are similar between Pashto and Kurdi, but are substantially different in Farsi, feel free to add to the list.

Thanks.

DMXX
12-13-2015, 11:07 PM
Have a feeling I'll be the resident Persian contributor here. :P

[Edit]: I should clarify I'm only familiar with conversational formal and informal Modern Persian. I've used Persian dictionaries in the past and noticed a bunch of archaic-sounding alternatives for common words.

Given that, it'd probably be appropriate to have a conversational vs. classical Persian list in this comparison, otherwise a lot of the language's diversity will be unrepresented.

Unless, of course, the aim is to just focus on the conversational variants of the languages, but I'm not sure that will support any sort of lexical analyses.

khanabadoshi
12-13-2015, 11:17 PM
Interesting, I will have to bust out my Balochi textbook and compare.

surbakhunWeesste
12-13-2015, 11:49 PM
Go is Tlal is Pashto, and we say nhar for fasting as well :)

Kurd
12-14-2015, 01:18 AM
Go is Tlal is Pashto, and we say nhar for fasting as well :)

How would you translate zam in the context of for example khpalo malgaro sara zam

Mingle
12-14-2015, 01:56 AM
How would you translate zam in the context of for example khpalo malgaro sara zam

"Going"

surbakhunWeesste
12-14-2015, 01:59 AM
How would you translate zam in the context of for example khpalo malgaro sara zam

It should be dzem, its the Uraidz (cloud) sound or wrodzhi(rice) sound , zam means wound in pashto like Zakhm.

sara= with
khphel/khpalo/my(own)
malgaro= friends
dzem= go


btw, I tried adding the farsi words twice, it didn't save, I felt technologically challenged.

Mingle
12-14-2015, 02:00 AM
Kurdi isn't exactly a language like Pashto is. Its a collection of closely related languages. The one used in your example is which type of Kurdi: Kurmanj, Soran, Feyli, Laki, etc.? Because there are significant differences between some of the different types of Kurdi.

Kurd
12-14-2015, 02:04 AM
It should be dzem, its the Uraidz (cloud) sound or wrodzhi(rice) sound , zam means wound in pashto like Zakhm.

sara= with
khphel/khpalo/my(own)
malgaro= friends
dzem= go

Dera manana bano:) I guess I have been accustomed to the slang Pakhto some of my friends and relatives spoke

DMXX
12-14-2015, 02:09 AM
Yes, I made several changes earlier to the Persian column, but nothing changed even though it indicated "saved" afterwards.

Kurd
12-14-2015, 02:17 AM
Yes, I made several changes earlier to the Persian column, but nothing changed even though it indicated "saved" afterwards.

I must be the technically challenged one. I'll look into it when I get back from the gym

DMXX
12-14-2015, 02:28 AM
I must be the technically challenged one. I'll look into it when I get back from the gym

There's a pahlevun in all Iranics (now that's a word I have a feeling Kurds, Persians and Pashtuns will share ;) )

Mingle
12-14-2015, 02:54 AM
How do you say the following words in Kurdish? I have a feeling they'll sound similar to Pashto.

Cat, rain, red, butt, cold.

surbakhunWeesste
12-14-2015, 03:00 AM
Dera manana bano:) I guess I have been accustomed to the slang Pakhto some of my friends and relatives spoke

I get confused all the time, one simple example: for us, Sha = good = kha , Sah is also what... one fine convo. got twaddle all of a sudden with one Pashtun who spoke a different dialect :P

Kurd
12-14-2015, 03:24 AM
How do you say the following words in Kurdish? I have a feeling they'll sound similar to Pashto.

Cat, rain, red, butt, cold.

Pishik, baraan, soor, saar(a)

Kurd
12-14-2015, 03:40 AM
I took a look at the sheet on the drive. It's strange, the changes are saved, but to see them you have to click on the link to the right of help on the toolbar, "last edit was...."

If you have any problems, simply post the farsi translation, and I will input it into the sheet myself

DMXX
12-14-2015, 03:47 AM
Ah, Kurd, I've spotted what's up. The spreadsheet isn't published to the web.

To do this, open it up, File > Publish to the web... > then hit the blue "Publish" button.

That should allow all of us to make the necessary edits.

Kurd
12-14-2015, 03:51 AM
Ah, Kurd, I've spotted what's up. The spreadsheet isn't published to the web.

To do this, open it up, File > Publish to the web... > then hit the blue "Publish" button.

That should allow all of us to make the necessary edits.

Done, see if you can save changes

DMXX
12-14-2015, 03:54 AM
Ah, now the permissions are set to "view only" for the rest of us.

When you're browsing the spreadsheet, you should be able to see a blue button on the top-right saying "Share".

If you click that, and set it so "anyone with the link can edit", we'll be able to do so. :)

Not your fault in the least; Google Spreadsheets' permissions can be quite fiddly. I frequently have to remind myself how to use them.

DMXX
12-14-2015, 04:02 AM
Here, all done for you!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1brcbuDxmi3S3bXq_bPDywKEkkLEvES_KJRYbsKYXR0A/edit?usp=sharing

Kurd
12-14-2015, 04:08 AM
Yes, I made several changes earlier to the Persian column, but nothing changed even though it indicated "saved" afterwards.

...............................

DMXX
12-14-2015, 04:12 AM
This is the new link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16e3GQHHVCRuDkqcfBqr9q41CwrwQDqCfXn81KfLHxOg/pubhtml

If this does not work, do you mind downloading and uploading it yourself, and sharing the link. Thanks:)

Still doesn't work, but please see the final comment on the previous page, I've already done precisely as requested in advance. :P

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1brcbuDxmi3S3bXq_bPDywKEkkLEvES_KJRYbsKYXR0A/edit?usp=sharing

Kurd
12-14-2015, 04:17 AM
Still doesn't work, but please see the final comment on the previous page, I've already done precisely as requested in advance. :P

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1brcbuDxmi3S3bXq_bPDywKEkkLEvES_KJRYbsKYXR0A/edit?usp=sharing

Actually DMXX nevermind, the link I posted in the starting post is working properly. I just checked. Sorry for the trouble

khanabadoshi
12-14-2015, 11:06 AM
How do you say the following words in Kurdish? I have a feeling they'll sound similar to Pashto.

Cat, rain, red, butt, cold.


Pishik, baraan, soor, saar(a)

In Balochi:

https://i.gyazo.com/59adc5bf3123d9bec8ff2333d13226d1.png
https://i.gyazo.com/ff2e7c8442ce8fefdc9f10ce6f838b33.png
https://i.gyazo.com/d3f5bfde48c2f213e2da1b91ff62fad4.png
https://i.gyazo.com/5d96eb129b2b43a0e9e5258251b691ed.png
https://i.gyazo.com/34b0a8c0254d4433235b94edc8d06615.png
https://i.gyazo.com/c3fbf749bd500226722d6f8426cc908a.png

khanabadoshi
12-14-2015, 11:13 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/3ed90d394db2facbba684bb3d9897bd1.png
https://i.gyazo.com/d335dcf3dfa78cf7828021635426ad30.png
https://i.gyazo.com/7473ca7febb30bf1174fc5d3ba656810.png

https://i.gyazo.com/8b9b001a34423ddfa229c0bb3a09693e.pnghttps://i.gyazo.com/7e64bfc1e29ea40a3eddeda2084787d6.png
https://i.gyazo.com/e83f3443748cd14b4f6b3d49797b3b57.png

Kurd
12-14-2015, 01:42 PM
I updated the list with some of the Balochi words Khana posted. Thanks alot Khana, much appreciated! I did not add some of the Balochi / Kurdi common words, because I know them to be the same in Farsi, but I am entering them into another spreadsheet that I am maintaining, so keep posting Khana :)

I am noticing some words are common between Balochi/Kurdi/Pashto, but some are only Kurdi /Pashto, and some are Kurdi / Balochi. The Kurdi / Balochi common ones can be explained as shared ancestry, or in some cases simply common Kurdi / Farsi / Balochi. The ones common only between Kurdi / Pashto are a mystery.

DMXX
12-14-2015, 03:38 PM
Added the Persian equivalents, plus added the words for snow and winter.

dp
12-14-2015, 06:30 PM
In the Pasto 'kawam' and the Kurdi 'tkam' I can see Indic influence. In European Romani 'kam' is love or want. Didn't expect I'd recognize anything :-)
dp

MfA
12-14-2015, 06:32 PM
In the Pasto 'kawam' and the Kurdi 'tkam' I can see Indic influence. In European Romani 'kam' is love or want. Didn't expect I'd recognize anything :-)
dp

In Kurmanji variant Kurdish it is actually as below

Ez ji te hez dikim.
I - to - you - love (present continuous tense-1st singular)

hez means love in Kurdish, it's actually an Arabic loanword hence it needs additonal verb kirin (to do) di-ki-m(present continuous tense-to do-1st singular) here

Kurd
12-14-2015, 07:25 PM
In Kurmanji variant Kurdish it is actually as below

Ez ji te hez dikim.
I - to - you - love (present continuous tense-1st singular)

hez means love in Kurdish, it's actually an Arabic loanword hence it needs additonal verb kirin (to do) di-ki-m(present continuous tense-to do-1st singular) here

I can speak somewhat decent Arabic, and in arabic it actually is houb. They say "A hibak" for I love you :)

Coldmountains
12-14-2015, 07:36 PM
In the Pasto 'kawam' and the Kurdi 'tkam' I can see Indic influence. In European Romani 'kam' is love or want. Didn't expect I'd recognize anything :-)
dp


My Pashto is not so good but if i am not wrong kawam is derived from the infinite kawel( to do) and related to Persian kardan. It is of Iranic origin but cognates exist also in Indo-Aryan languages.

MfA
12-14-2015, 07:46 PM
I can speak somewhat decent Arabic, and in arabic it actually is houb. They say "A hibak" for I love you :)

Loanwords don't necessarily have same meaning in source and result language, It is often otherwise actually. Hezz may be close to taking pleasure or something in Arabic, not literally expression of love like in Kurdish.

surbakhunWeesste
12-14-2015, 09:16 PM
In the Pasto 'kawam' and the Kurdi 'tkam' I can see Indic influence. In European Romani 'kam' is love or want. Didn't expect I'd recognize anything :-)
dp

Love in Pashto is 'Meena'.

Za (la) ta saara Meena Kawom.

Za = I
Ta = you
la saara = with
Meena = Love
Kawom= do (first person)

Kurd
12-14-2015, 09:37 PM
I guess I should have clarified:

Tkam = do = kawom 1st person
Tkat = do = kawee (he she)
Tkayn= do = kawoo (we)

Thanks Surbakhun for adding Za (I) forgot to add it to the Kurdi sentence also (az)

khanabadoshi
12-14-2015, 10:21 PM
A few ways:

Mehr = Love

Mani tai sara ey dil aye aatkaan.

Mana taee gooma mehren'.

منا گوں تو مہر انت۔

[mɒnɒ g to mehr enː]

/Mana gon’ to mehr en’./

I love you.

Mellifluous
12-15-2015, 08:15 AM
My Pashto is not so good but if i am not wrong kawam is derived from the infinite kawel( to do) and related to Persian kardan. It is of Iranic origin but cognates exist also in Indo-Aryan languages.

Agreed.

Zeh kawam (pashto) vs. Ma meh konam (farsi)

DMXX
12-15-2015, 08:48 AM
A whistle-stop tour of the Modern Persian words or phrases relating to "doing":

kardan = to do (infinitive)
kār = work
kār kardan = to work
mikonam = I'll do it (informal/colloquial)

Shomah in kār mikoni? = Will you be doing this work? (literal you-this-work-will do?)
Baleh, man in kār mikonam = Yes, I will do this work (literal yes-I-this-work-I'll do it)

We'll be discussing Persian carpets, cats, saffron and kofteh Tabrizi (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/dd/ff/6f/ddff6fac46de73e3ea5cc7089304a6c2.jpg) in our next lesson.

By the way, I hope this also addresses the comments online about Modern Persian being an agglutinative language (it isn't); as demonstrated by "mikonam" (which strictly speaking is me (possessive) + work + me (affirmative) if I'm using my linguistic terminologies correctly to express it). The language readily forms compound words, but that isn't a unique trait in the least (f.ex. the word "terminology" above being Latin terminus plus Greek logos).

The agglutinative claim, as well as the nonsense about Modern Persian being practically a third Arabic, are two pet peeves I haven't shaken off as of yet, entirely because the claims keep resurfacing!

Kurd
12-15-2015, 05:42 PM
Added a couple of more Pashto / Kurdi words:

Xuram (1st person) = eating = xoum (Kurdi) with examples
Xuree (3rd person) = eating = xout (Kurdi)

Noticed someone added wawra, reminds me of wawra ureegee when we used to visit the mountains in the winter.

surbakhunWeesste
12-15-2015, 06:09 PM
Added a couple of more Pashto / Kurdi words:

Xuram (1st person) = eating = xoum (Kurdi) with examples
Xuree (3rd person) = eating = xout (Kurdi)

Noticed someone added wawra, reminds me of wawra ureegee when we used to visit the mountains in the winter.

Khowrel has retroflex, how is Xoum pronounced? I wish we had a voice note.

Kurd
12-16-2015, 01:03 PM
There are additional Kurdi / Pashto / Khotanese / Urdu / Punjabi words listed in Surbakhun's spreadsheet in a parallel thread "Similarity between Pashto and Khotanese. The spreadsheet is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TU5tpUU0_iU9yU1fubIDz2TQ3zb9cbV9XyKGUp_gzOA/edit#gid=0

Kurd
03-21-2016, 12:09 AM
From a distance, Kurdi sounds like Pashto. Why is the million dollar question...... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQm4OgO7B4