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PLogan
12-15-2015, 04:19 PM
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/dna-dates-dog-domestication-back-33000-years-151215.htm

All dogs alive today can trace at least some of their ancestry back to dogs that were domesticated 33,000 years ago in southern East Asia, suggests one of the most extensive ever investigations of canine DNA.

The research, conducted by an international team, further determined that dogs began to migrate out of East Asia and towards the Middle East and Africa 15,000 years ago. They then reached Europe in large numbers approximately 10,000 years ago. It appears that the dogs self-initiated the moves.

Megalophias
12-15-2015, 05:01 PM
The paper is here (open access): http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/cr2015147a.html

JohnHowellsTyrfro
12-15-2015, 08:03 PM
I'm pretty convinced about the self-domestication of dogs during early contact with humans rather than the old theory that hunters or farmers captured and raised wolf cubs. The modern grey wolf as I understand it is still virtually impossible to domesticate ( compared to the level of domestication of dogs ).
It is interesting that this process may have been initiated by genetic changes. This research also seems to support an earlier date for dog domestication as do the Altai and Belgian fossils mentioned. I think the jury is still out on where dogs were first domesticated, given the current fossil evidence. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the domestication date moves further back as new discoveries are made.
The success of domesticated dogs and modern humans has been very inter-linked I think.


Dog Fossil with Mammoth bone deliberately placed in it's mouth.

6941

lgmayka
12-15-2015, 11:27 PM
The paper is here (open access): http://www.nature.com/cr/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/cr2015147a.html
Doesn't this sound a lot like the journey of macrogroup P out of Southeast Asia hypothesized by Karafet 2015 (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n3/full/ejhg2014106a.html)? And especially the expansion of haplogroup Q?
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...indicating an ancient origin of domestic dogs in southern East Asia 33 000 years ago. Around 15 000 years ago, a subset of ancestral dogs started migrating to the Middle East, Africa and Europe, arriving in Europe at about 10 000 years ago. One of the out of Asia lineages also migrated back to the east, creating a series of admixed populations with the endemic Asian lineages in northern China before migrating to the New World.
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paulgill
12-15-2015, 11:37 PM
Useful for hunting , warning and protection, ancients realised very early on, I guess.

Varun R
12-16-2015, 06:14 AM
Strange that they've only used a small sample of indigenous/ village dogs from E Asia and Nigeria. Also, their wolf samples all appear to be from Northern Eurasia. There are gaping holes in coverage across Near East, S Asia, Sundaland, East Africa and S Africa...
Also, only one breed from Central Asia?

Edited: Correction- a quick wiki lookup suggests that gray wolves weren't native to Indomalaya....even so, it would have been nice for researchers to include a representative sample of dogs and wolves...

JohnHowellsTyrfro
12-16-2015, 07:47 AM
It is worth noting though that the "dog" fossils in Altai and Belgium are also estimated to be around 30,000 years old, so they were obviously in places other than South East Asia at this time. Also dogs are believed to be descended from a sub-species of wolf as I understand it. The Canine Genome project speculated that this evolutionary process may have happened as long as 100,000 years ago but this research suggests a later date.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
12-16-2015, 07:53 AM
Useful for hunting , warning and protection, ancients realised very early on, I guess.

The success rate for hunting using dogs, particularly with small prey, is much higher than hunting without dogs, about 9 x I think. The Finnish Game Conservancy did a study on it. Dog were also used to transport prey. This could well have been the difference between life and death.

Shaikorth
12-16-2015, 12:01 PM
It is worth noting though that the "dog" fossils in Altai and Belgium are also estimated to be around 30,000 years old, so they were obviously in places other than South East Asia at this time. Also dogs are believed to be descended from a sub-species of wolf as I understand it. The Canine Genome project speculated that this evolutionary process may have happened as long as 100,000 years ago but this research suggests a later date.

They propose that the oldest dog-like fossils outside Southeast Asia were not dogs or were domestic lines that did not contribute to modern dog genepool, being replaced by Southeast Asian dog lines.

Despite the strong patterns presented by the genetic data, archaeological evidence supporting an East Asian origin is missing. Several important factors further confound current analysis. First, the morphological differences between dogs and gray wolves are not always very clear-cut, especially for specimens from the early phase of dog domestication. In fact, a recent ancient DNA study has ruled out several ancient dog-like specimens found in Europe. Second, archaeological studies in the Far East are generally lagging behind those in Europe, with most of the ancient dog-like fossils from before 12 000 years ago being found outside of East Asia. This could also be due to the unfavorable environmental conditions for preserving fossils in southern East Asia. Nevertheless, it is possible that multiple primitive forms of the dog existed, including in Europe. However, in this case, the genetic pattern presented here shows that those lineages were replaced by dogs that migrated from southern East Asia, and thus made negligible contributions to the modern dog gene pool (Figure 1D).

JohnHowellsTyrfro
12-16-2015, 05:26 PM
This was from a couple of years ago. Probably in another couple of years there will be another theory if more fossil evidence comes to light. :)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjY1L3B8uDJAhVLmR4KHeZeB90QFgg1MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.plos.org%2Fplosone%2Fart icle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057754&usg=AFQjCNHXS7n7getetBgncG6ZsFjYpDL8YA&sig2=UPTGw5ryrWhVLNsnhaGzAg

Shaikorth
12-16-2015, 07:21 PM
This was from a couple of years ago. Probably in another couple of years there will be another theory if more fossil evidence comes to light. :)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjY1L3B8uDJAhVLmR4KHeZeB90QFgg1MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.plos.org%2Fplosone%2Fart icle%3Fid%3D10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0057754&usg=AFQjCNHXS7n7getetBgncG6ZsFjYpDL8YA&sig2=UPTGw5ryrWhVLNsnhaGzAg

That study was based on only mtDNA though, and we know that dog and wolf mtdna is much less differentiated than their autosomal dna.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/asset?unique&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0057754.s004

So we'd need paleolithic autosomal dog DNA showing a better alternative to Southeast Asia to get a new theory.

parasar
02-16-2016, 06:44 PM
Doesn't this sound a lot like the journey of macrogroup P out of Southeast Asia hypothesized by Karafet 2015 (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n3/full/ejhg2014106a.html)? And especially the expansion of haplogroup Q?
---
...indicating an ancient origin of domestic dogs in southern East Asia 33 000 years ago. Around 15 000 years ago, a subset of ancestral dogs started migrating to the Middle East, Africa and Europe, arriving in Europe at about 10 000 years ago. One of the out of Asia lineages also migrated back to the east, creating a series of admixed populations with the endemic Asian lineages in northern China before migrating to the New World.
---

It also meshes well with ANE's shared drift with ENA and a separation at around 33000 years ( and prior to the 24ky old MA1).

There was also a paper that put domesticated dogs in Central Asia (Nepal, Mongolia) about 15000ybp which would also be consistent. http://www.pnas.org/content/112/44/13639.abstract

Gisele H
02-16-2016, 08:12 PM
Some Canis Familiaris mtDNA online resources (tree and complete sequence database):

http://clf.mtdna.tree.cm.umk.pl/svgtree.html
http://clf.mtdna.tree.cm.umk.pl/sequences.html

parasar
03-07-2016, 04:23 PM
It also meshes well with ANE's shared drift with ENA and a separation at around 33000 years ( and prior to the 24ky old MA1).

There was also a paper that put domesticated dogs in Central Asia (Nepal, Mongolia) about 15000ybp which would also be consistent. http://www.pnas.org/content/112/44/13639.abstract

"A study of the remains of dogs in an ancient cemetery near Lake Baikal has shown how the animals were 'treated just like people when they died', according to anthropologist Robert Losey of the University of Alberta in Canada ..."
http://siberiantimes.com/science/opinion/news/n0608-siberia-holds-the-key-the-human-love-affair-with-dogs/

"The irresistible gaze of "puppy-dog eyes" has roots in thousands of years of human evolution alongside domesticated dogs, says anthropologist Robert Losey ... Anyone who owns a dog is familiar with the “gaze”—that hypnotic, imploring stare that demands reciprocation. It can seem to hold a world of mystery and longing, or just pure bafflement at what makes humans tick.

It turns out that the look of mutual recognition between human and dog reflects thousands of years of evolution, a bond programmed into our very body chemistry."
https://uofa.ualberta.ca/news-and-events/newsarticles/2016/march/reading-an-ancient-bond-in-the-look-of-puppy-love