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Kacem
12-18-2015, 02:55 AM
Hello everybody,

I am of north African origin more precisely of northern Algeria, and to my surprise my paternal lineage is E1B1a8.
I saw that is dominant in West Africa but rare in North Africa, i am a bit lost, especially as my ancestry composition shows :

90% North African
7,5% European
only 1,3% Sub-Saharan African

So if you can enlighten me or tell me who to contact ?! Thank

Táltos
12-18-2015, 04:44 AM
Hello everybody,

I am of north African origin more precisely of northern Algeria, and to my surprise my paternal lineage is E1B1a8.
I saw that is dominant in West Africa but rare in North Africa, i am a bit lost, especially as my ancestry composition shows :

90% North African
7,5% European
only 1,3% Sub-Saharan African

So if you can enlighten me or tell me who to contact ?! Thank

Welcome to Anthrogenica Kacem!
Haplogroups are very old and go back thousands of years. Autosomal DNA recombines fast. Y DNA and mtDNA mutate slowly over time. So it is possible to have autosomal DNA that may not reflect a group that is typical for one's haplogroup.

Kacem
12-18-2015, 06:55 AM
Thank you Táltos,

I would like to know if haplogroup can change and be more realistic if using another method because I have heard speak different Y-DNA tests in FTDNA : Y - DNA12 , 25, 37 , 67, 111.
What differences between these tests, and there is an impact on haplogroup ?

E_M81_I3A
12-18-2015, 07:23 AM
Your haplogroup E1b1a8 means that your direct paternal ancestor came from West Africa, probably during the Arab slave trade. By the way E1b1a8 is not so rare in North Africa, generally around 2-3% in Algeria.

drobbah
12-18-2015, 07:51 AM
Your paternal ancestor originated from West Africa which had extensive links with the Mediterranean coast of Africa.North Africa and the Mediterranean needed Gold and manpower(slaves) while West Africans needed salt.Your West african ancestor could have been anything from a slave,business man to a mercenary.That's the most logical answer I can think of at the moment.I read about West african trade after reading about Mansa Musa the ruler of Mali who went to Hajj.They said that when he stopped in Qaahirah(Cairo) he spent so much gold that the price of Gold dropped.Just some info as a side note.

Odyss
12-18-2015, 08:15 AM
Your YDNA is atypical for an Algerian , but not something unexpected or unexplainable. Honestly it could be very old (antiquity) to relatively recent. It depends how much you know abut your paternal line history. Have you done McDonald's ? Eurogenes ? or any kind of deeper calculator analyze.

Here a study analyzes Algerian yDNA and autosomal background : http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.fr/2015/11/algerian-complex-genetics.html

RCO
12-18-2015, 11:25 AM
Not strange results because Sub-Saharan African genetic markers (Y DNA, mtDNA, atDNA) can be regularly found around the Mediterranean Sea and in Southern Europe as well.

Agamemnon
12-18-2015, 11:32 AM
Your haplogroup E1b1a8 means that your direct paternal ancestor came from West Africa, probably during the Arab slave trade. By the way E1b1a8 is not so rare in North Africa, generally around 2-3% in Algeria.

Not necessarily, in all likeliness E1b1a8 preceded E-M81 in North Africa... He'd need to test with FTDNA in order to learn more about his paternal lineage.

paulgill
12-18-2015, 12:27 PM
Hello everybody,

I am of north African origin more precisely of northern Algeria, and to my surprise my paternal lineage is E1B1a8.
I saw that is dominant in West Africa but rare in North Africa, i am a bit lost, especially as my ancestry composition shows :

90% North African
7,5% European
only 1,3% Sub-Saharan African

So if you can enlighten me or tell me who to contact ?! Thank


Not necessarily, in all likeliness E1b1a8 preceded E-M81 in North Africa... He'd need to test with FTDNA in order to learn more about his paternal lineage.SS

More testing for sure but why not FullGenomes WGS?

Kacem
12-18-2015, 05:05 PM
Your haplogroup E1b1a8 means that your direct paternal ancestor came from West Africa, probably during the Arab slave trade. By the way E1b1a8 is not so rare in North Africa, generally around 2-3% in Algeria.

The Muslim slave instead!
How come I end up with 1.3% subsaharian if it's as recent ?

Kacem
12-18-2015, 05:08 PM
Your YDNA is atypical for an Algerian , but not something unexpected or unexplainable. Honestly it could be very old (antiquity) to relatively recent. It depends how much you know abut your paternal line history. Have you done McDonald's ? Eurogenes ? or any kind of deeper calculator analyze.

Here a study analyzes Algerian yDNA and autosomal background : http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.fr/2015/11/algerian-complex-genetics.html



I also think it is very old, i never understood that my family came from the south even less west africa.

I have been testing gedmatch but which used ? Eurogenes, docedad etc ?

Thanks for the link

Kacem
12-18-2015, 05:20 PM
Not necessarily, in all likeliness E1b1a8 preceded E-M81 in North Africa... He'd need to test with FTDNA in order to learn more about his paternal lineage.


Yes I will test with FTDNA. Can you tell me what test do exactly ?

Kacem
12-18-2015, 05:24 PM
SS

More testing for sure but why not FullGenomes WGS?

What are these tests to be sure?

paulgill
12-18-2015, 05:36 PM
What are these tests to be sure?

These are Y DNA tests and Whole Genome Sequencing tests, Y Elite 2.0 gives you the best yDNA test on the market today, it also includes STRs and mtDna. While the WGS also gives you the autosomal DNA SNPs on top of all other, it is a complete test of your DNA. For more information please see the links below.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?742-Full-Y-Chromosome-Sequencing-Phase-III-Pilot/page127

https://www.fullgenomes.com/

vettor
12-18-2015, 05:37 PM
maybe you are a pure proto-berber from west africa

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-indigenous-berbers-of-africa-by-natural-mystics/

Kacem
12-18-2015, 06:56 PM
You advise me to do what gedmatch project ?

kingjohn
12-18-2015, 10:14 PM
dear kacem,
e1b1a was found in oran northwest algeria 8.6% 8/94. https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/algerian-y-chromosomes/
i also believe it could be related to arab slave trade but your ancestor mingeled good :)
1.3% subsharan try upload to gedmatch will see ,modern algerian are between 15-20% subsharan {part north east african , part west african }.
best regards
adam

Kacem
12-18-2015, 11:08 PM
dear kacem,
e1b1a was found in oran northwest algeria 8.6% 8/94. https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/algerian-y-chromosomes/
i also believe it could be related to arab slave trade but your ancestor mingeled good :)
1.3% subsharan try upload to gedmatch will see ,modern algerian are between 15-20% subsharan {part north east african , part west african }.
best regards
adam

Thank for your replie but What project in gedmatch? Eurogenes, Docedad, .... ?

kingjohn
12-18-2015, 11:24 PM
try both of them{eurogenes, dodecdad} it will be
intresting not only for you but to all members of the forum.
best regards
adam
p.s{ we are related throgh the pn2 clade }:)

Agamemnon
12-19-2015, 12:25 AM
Yes I will test with FTDNA. Can you tell me what test do exactly ?

Go for the 37 STR marker test, once you get your results you can join the E1b1a project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E1b1a/default.aspx?section=yresults) to get an assessment of your potential subclade... Though I doubt the admins will take the time to do so, this project seems to be in a semi-moribund state, so order a SNP pack if there is one after you get your results.

Kacem
12-19-2015, 02:39 AM
Go for the 37 STR marker test, once you get your results you can join the E1b1a project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E1b1a/default.aspx?section=yresults) to get an assessment of your potential subclade... Though I doubt the admins will take the time to do so, this project seems to be in a semi-moribund state, so order a SNP pack if there is one after you get your results.


I think I'll take the test Y elite 2.0 directly instead of going through FTDNA .
Thanks for your advices.

Kacem
12-19-2015, 02:48 AM
try both of them{eurogenes, dodecdad} it will be
intresting not only for you but to all members of the forum.
best regards
adam
p.s{ we are related throgh the pn2 clade }:)

Dodecad V3 Oracle:

1/Mediterranean 27.85%
2/Northwest_African 24.08%
3/Southwest_Asian 13.52%
4/West_European 8.66%
5/Neo_African 8.18%
6/East_African 7.45%
7/West_Asian 6.1%
8/Palaeo_African 3.65%
9/East_European 0.48%
10/Southeast_Asian 0.0%


# Population (source) Distance

1/Algerian (Dodecad) 9.97
2/Moroccans (Behar) 20.14
3/Moroccan (Dodecad) 20.7
4/Morocco_Jews (Behar) 26.69
5/Egyptans (Behar) 27.32
6/Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 31.14
7/Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 32.97
8/Sicilian (Dodecad) 32.98
9/Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 33.7
10/Jordanians (Behar) 33.84
11/S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 33.98
12/Palestinian (HGDP) 34.35
13/Canarias (1000Genomes) 35.08
14/Yemenese (Behar) 35.2
15/Lebanese (Behar) 35.61
16/C_Italian (Dodecad) 35.63
17/O_Italian (Dodecad) 36.53
18/Syrians (Behar) 36.82
19/Greek (Dodecad) 37.85
20/TSI30 (Metspalu) 37.87


For those who want to see my gedmatch kit is : M490152

kingjohn
12-19-2015, 01:11 PM
thanks dear kacem
you score total 15% in subsharan components
as expected for algerians .
i am sure that if you do ftdna my origins the subsharan will be higher than what 23 and me gave you 1.3%.
best regards
adam

kingjohn
12-28-2015, 11:58 AM
by the way very likely that the eastern african component inside the total 15% african
is ancient in algeria and could be present in numidians and other berber tribes in northwest africa.
it could be brought to north west africa with the e-m81 marker in ancient times.
best regards
adam

brownar
08-18-2016, 01:12 PM
Go for the 37 STR marker test, once you get your results you can join the E1b1a project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E1b1a/default.aspx?section=yresults) to get an assessment of your potential subclade... Though I doubt the admins will take the time to do so, this project seems to be in a semi-moribund state, so order a SNP pack if there is one after you get your results.

The project isn't in "semi-moribund state". LOL. I'm actively working the data in that project almost every day of week. I don't do much on weekends.