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Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:02 PM
THE DNA-GENEALOGY OF BASHKIRS TRIBES — 5. THE DESCENDANTS OF MUYTENS (HURRIANS-MITANNI)

B.A.Muratov, R.R.Suyunov, P.M.Arsanov

We have previously noted[1], the presence among Sheshey-Usergan (шәшәй-үçәргән) ‘ara’ (The ‘ara’ mean ‘a little family clan’ in Bashkir language ¬— note B.M.), the descendants of medieval Muyten people, from subclade J2a[2].

Bashkirs from Usergan clan have the following tribal attributes:
Battle Cry — Muyten (the name of an ancestor)
Tamga — Koyoshkan (Tail)
The sacred tree — Mishar (Rowan)
Sacred bird — Torna (Crane).

At the present time have been additionally DNA-tested and recorded in genealogies (shejere) Bashkirs from ara — Apandi-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Beshey-Usergan, which also they turned out to be carriers of subclade J2a.

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2015-10/muytens.png

Read an article full, click here
https://www.academia.edu/19838521/Muratov_B.A._and_..._The_DNA-genealogy_of_Bashkirs_tribes_-_5._The_descendants_of_Muytens_Hurrians-Mitanni_BEHPS_Volume_2_10_1_2_November_2015_P.950-963

Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:07 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TuranSurnames/default.aspx?section=yresults

Matches:

The descendants of HURRIANS-MITANNI - потомки ХУРРИТОВ-МАТИЕН
284210 Ismailov Chechen Republic, Nashhoy-H'aybahoy gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-17 11 16 11 15 12 31 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 13 19 15 36-37 12 9
274415 Aliev Chechen Republic, Pkh'amtoy-Asdar gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 31 12-13-16-17 10 9 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9
271774 Musaev Chechen Republic, Nashhoy-H'ilhoy gar Russian Federation J-Z7671
12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 11 9 19-22 14 14 19 15 36-37 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 17 8 13 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
410611 Apandi-Usergan Bashkir Uraz (XIX), Ural, Baish at., Apandi-Usergan clan Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-19 11 14 13 14 11 31
297010 Khadzhimuradov Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-Ashakhan gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 30
297013 Zaypulaev Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-Ashakhan gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 30 18 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 31 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 16 8 14 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
333332 Elmurzaev Chechen Republic, C'esi-Suntar gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 31
321769 Avtarkhanov Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-G'uzar gar Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 14-20 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 17 8 14 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
410632 Beshey-Usergan Bashkir Ishkan (XIX), Imangulovo, Beshey-Usergan clan Russian Federation J-M172
12 23 14 10 15-19 11 15 12 13 11 29
410626 Abathi-Usergan Bashkir Aqbash (XVIII), bashkirs, Abathi-Usergan clan Russian Federation -
12 24 14 10 14-19 11 14 13 15 11 32

J Man
12-26-2015, 03:12 PM
Interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing this information. So the Usergan clan among the Bashkirs has turned out to all belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?

Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:32 PM
Interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing this information. So the Usergan clan among the Bashkirs has turned out to all belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?

Usergan are a big clan in Bashkirs, and with many ara.
Usergan by DNA-test have many ethnic components.

On today information:
Only Sheshey-Usergan, Beshey-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Apandi-Usergan have J2a subclade.
Surash-Usergan and Nagyman-Usergan- - N1c-L1034.
Bure-Usergan - R1b (cluster is unknown).
Ayiu-Usergan - I (cluster is unknown).
Aqsak-Usergan - R1a-Y2632.

J Man
12-26-2015, 03:37 PM
Usergan are a big clan in Bashkirs, and with many ara.
Usergan by DNA-test have many ethnic components.

On today information:
Only Sheshey-Usergan, Beshey-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Apandi-Usergan have J2a subclade.
Surash-Usergan and Nagyman-Usergan- - N1c-L1034.
Bure-Usergan - R1b (cluster is unknown).
Ayiu-Usergan - I (cluster is unknown).
Aqsak-Usergan - R1a-Y2632.

Right and as you mention above there are 3 Y-DNA haplogroup J2a results from the Usergan clan so far. None of them look to be that closely related overall either at 12 markers.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 03:53 PM
Off-top:

I must will write 10 messages, then i can private message.


Hello! ... the questions about Usergan J2a
Hello!

No problem. Of course, ok!

Sincerely Bulat.

P.S. I can write an answer - later, in private. But after 10 messages in this forum, because it rules in this site.

Agamemnon
12-26-2015, 04:53 PM
Hm, how on earth do you know these guys are Hurrian or Mitannian in origin? If you have any Hurrian or Mitannian data, I'd like to know about it.

J Man
12-26-2015, 04:55 PM
Hm, how on earth do you know these guys are Hurrian or Mitannian in origin? If you have any Hurrian or Mitannian data, I'd like to know about it.

It is just a hypothesis most likely.

Anabasis
12-26-2015, 04:55 PM
J2a in Bashkirs may be pre historic influence of HG J2a. It doesnt mean that they were descendents of Hurrians or Mittianis. In my opinion you need to test some full sequence test and found out the TMRCA years of J2a subsclades in bashkirs. STR matches may mislead you also. (On the ther hand mittianis are probably R1a or R1b carrier rather then J2a)

Agamemnon
12-26-2015, 05:00 PM
It is just a hypothesis most likely.

Well, judging from the matches, I'd say it's equally likely their ancestors came from the Caucasus, they even could've been Nakh speakers. Nothing really warrants a Hurrian or Mitannian connection at this stage TBPH.

Anabasis
12-26-2015, 05:08 PM
Well, judging from the matches, I'd say it's equally likely their ancestors came from the Caucasus, they even could've been Nakh speakers. Nothing really warrants a Hurrian or Mitannian connection at this stage TBPH.

You are so true. Its something like labeling any subsclade as "jewish" just because its found in a jewish person.

Agamemnon
12-26-2015, 05:21 PM
You are so true. Its something like labeling any subsclade as "jewish" just because its found in a jewish person.

That's the point really, we don't even know what the Hurrians and the Mitannians looked like genetically-speaking, we haven't got any Hurrian or Mitannian samples yet. And then there's the fact that the other matches come from Chechnya, one of these matches happens to be J2a-Z7671 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z7671/) (TMRCA ~12,400 years BP), a marker which seems pretty common in Nakh speakers (Chechen and Ingush).

Coldmountains
12-26-2015, 05:31 PM
Mitanni were Hurrians with an Indo-Aryan elite. Haplogroups of Hurrians can just be guessed and I would be careful about making any speculations about that but the Indo-Aryan elite was most likely R1a-Z93/L657 or Z2124

Anabasis
12-26-2015, 05:36 PM
12400 years very much years to define it chechen or nakh as well. It must be a rule that If you want to use YDNA data as historical evidence of something then you HAVE to find its age via TMRCA among that population.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 05:38 PM
Hm, how on earth do you know these guys are Hurrian or Mitannian in origin? If you have any Hurrian or Mitannian data, I'd like to know about it.

No problem.

Please read these Orientalists as:

V.Gernot,
S.Tolstov,
L.Tolstova,
Dyakonov,
Starostin
and others.

Their work and bibliography, look at 961 page https://www.academia.edu/19838521/Muratov_B.A._Suyunov_R.R._Arsanov_P.M._The_DNA-genealogy_of_Bashkirs_tribes_-_5._The_descendants_of_Muytens_Hurrians-Mitanni_BEHPS_Volume_2_10_1_2_November_2015_P.950-963.

So what we have:

Four facts, namely:
1) Archaeological proof (Kamyshli stage of Suyarganovo archeological culture - XIII b.c.).
2) Linguistic confirmation (Nakh languages ​​of the Caucasus are descendants Hurrian language). Note - The information in Starostin books.
3) Genetic confirmation - Distribution subclades haplogroups J2a on the Aral Sea in the 2nd millennium BC. from the territory of the Lake Urmia.
4) Archival confirmation - the beginning of the calendar Khwarezm from the 13th century BC, according to Biruni.

Agamemnon
12-26-2015, 05:40 PM
I'm not saying the Hurrians didn't carry J2a - in fact I'm ready to bet most of them were J2a-M67 - what I'm saying is that in this particular case nothing really supports a Hurrian or Mitannian connection, especially if we take the Chechen matches into account. And like Coldmountains said, the Mitannians were an Indo-Aryan elite (a military aristocracy of sorts) ruling over a Hurrian majority, so it's quite likely they were R1a-Z93.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 05:40 PM
It is just a hypothesis most likely.

You are right. Of course, this is a hypothesis only, yes. But... with four facts ;)

Bulat
12-26-2015, 05:48 PM
I'm not saying the Hurrians didn't carry J2a - in fact I'm ready to bet most of them were J2a-M67 - what I'm saying is that in this particular case nothing really supports a Hurrian or Mitannian connection, especially if we taken the Chechen matches into account. And like Coldmountains said, the Mitannians were an Indo-Aryan elite (a military aristocracy of sorts) ruling over a Hurrian majority, so it's quite likely they were R1a-Z93.

Sorry, my english is very bad.

Hurrians-Mitanni is not Aryan-Mitanni.

Aryan Mitanni, yes they were R1a-Z93.

But, i said only Hurrians-Mitanni, are you understand me?

Bulat
12-26-2015, 05:53 PM
Aryan-Mitanni - R1a-Z93,
Hurrians-Mitanni - J2a.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 06:12 PM
J2a in Bashkirs may be pre historic influence of HG J2a. It doesnt mean that they were descendents of Hurrians or Mittianis. In my opinion you need to test some full sequence test and found out the TMRCA years of J2a subsclades in bashkirs. STR matches may mislead you also. (On the ther hand mittianis are probably R1a or R1b carrier rather then J2a)

1) The fact that the Bashkirian Usergans are the descendants of Muytens there is a huge science-oriental literature, usually known in narrow circles, but well presented in Russian libraries.

For example, you know that the ancestors of the Chechens and Ingush named in ancient chronicles as the Nokhchi-Matien? I think that you knew nothing about it. Further, did you know that later Hurrians were known as Muytens? Perhaps you did not know. But written about it and Gernot, and Dyakonov, and Aliyev, and Tolstov, and Tolstova, and others.

Now in Bashkirian Usergans J2a - really just mean, that some researches of the past were right. Bibliography about it - I have already given in the my past message in this forum.

2) Aryans-Mitanni is not a Hurrians-Mitanni. Yes, the Mitanni Aryans were R1a-Z93, but Hurrians-Mitanni were J2a.

Agamemnon
12-26-2015, 06:18 PM
12400 years very much years to define it chechen or nakh as well. It must be a rule that If you want to use YDNA data as historical evidence of something then you HAVE to find its age via TMRCA among that population.

Indeed, Z7671 predates the formation of anything remotely ressembling Nakh-speaking groups by several millenia, nevertheless I think that the Chechen matches are suggestive of a more recent Nakh connection. Now I could be wrong of course, as that doesn't necessarily disprove a more ancient connection, it's quite likely that J2a was born in the Caucasus for instance so there were plenty of other opportunities for Z7671 to make it up north.


No problem.

Please read these Orientalists as:

V.Gernot,
S.Tolstov,
L.Tolstova,
Dyakonov,
Starostin
and others.

Their work and bibliography, look at 961 page https://www.academia.edu/19838521/Muratov_B.A._Suyunov_R.R._Arsanov_P.M._The_DNA-genealogy_of_Bashkirs_tribes_-_5._The_descendants_of_Muytens_Hurrians-Mitanni_BEHPS_Volume_2_10_1_2_November_2015_P.950-963.

So what we have:

Four facts, namely:
1) Archaeological proof (Kamyshli stage of Suyarganovo archeological culture - XIII b.c.).
2) Linguistic confirmation (Nakh languages ​​of the Caucasus are descendants Hurrian language). Note - The information in Starostin books.
3) Genetic confirmation - Distribution subclades haplogroups J2a on the Aral Sea in the 2nd millennium BC. from the territory of the Lake Urmia.
4) Archival confirmation - the beginning of the calendar Khwarezm from the 13th century BC, according to Biruni.

You're referring to Diakonoff & Starostin's "Alarodian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarodian_languages)" hypothesis, which presupposes a genetic relationship between Northeast Caucasian and Hurro-Urartian languages. While I suspect there might well be a genetic relationship between Northeast Caucasian languages and Hurro-Urartian (many linguists reject this theory outright FYI), this is just a theory at this stage, it hasn't been conclusively proven and much of its current validity relies on typological similarities (you can thank Starostin for that, his Nostraticist background is showing here). But that's above the point really, even if this theory is correct (again, I think that the odds are in favour of it right now, I'm quite certain more research will highlight its validity) that doesn't mean Nakh languages are descended from Hurrian, it merely means that Proto-Northeast Caucasian (PNEC) and Hurro-Urartian share a common ancestor.
Also, Allentoft et al. 2015 found two J2a samples from the Altai dating back to the Iron Age: RISE504 (from Kytmanovo, ~8th-9th centuries AD) and RISE602 (from the Sary-Bel Kurgan, ~2nd-1st centuries AD), both samples were positive for SK1403, a subclade of J2a-PF4993 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF4993/), since they belong to a totally different branch of J2a (the Chechen matches apparently are Z7671, a branch of M67) this seemingly indicates that J2a had a long history of intrusion into the steppe from the Caucasus. So there's really no need to invoke some sort of Hurrian connection here.


Sorry, my english is very bad.

Hurrians-Mitanni is not Aryan-Mitanni.

Aryan Mitanni, yes they were R1a-Z93.

But, i said only Hurrians-Mitanni, are you understand me?

I understand you, but you could just say "Hurrians" instead. That would make things clearer.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 06:19 PM
Mitanni were Hurrians with an Indo-Aryan elite. Haplogroups of Hurrians can just be guessed and I would be careful about making any speculations about that but the Indo-Aryan elite was most likely R1a-Z93/L657 or Z2124

My opinion:
1) Haplogroups of Hurrians-Mitanni were J1 and J2. But J2a is main haplogroup of Hurrians.

2) Aryan-Mitanni were R1a-Z93.

Bulat
12-26-2015, 06:29 PM
You're referring to Diakonoff & Starostin's "Alarodian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarodian_languages)" hypothesis, which presupposes a genetic relationship between Northeast Caucasian and Hurro-Urartian languages. While I suspect there might well be a genetic relationship between Northeast Caucasian languages and Hurro-Urartian (many linguists reject this theory outright FYI), this is just a theory at this stage, it hasn't been conclusively proven and much of its current validity relies on typological similarities (you can thank Starostin for that, his Nostraticist background is showing here). But that's above the point really, even if this theory is correct (again, I think that the odds are in favour of it right now, I'm quite certain more research will highlight its validity) that doesn't mean Nakh languages are descended from Hurrian, it merely means that Proto-Northeast Caucasian (PNEC) and Hurro-Urartian share a common ancestor.
Also, Allentoft et al. 2015 found two J2a samples from the Altai dating back to the Iron Age: RISE504 (from Kytmanovo, ~9th-8th centuries BC) and RISE602 (from the Sary-Bel Kurgan), both samples were positive for SK1403, a subclade of J2a-PF4993 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PF4993/), since they belong to a totally different branch of J2a (the Chechen matches apparently are Z7671, a branch of M67) this seemingly indicates that J2a had a long history of intrusion into the steppe from the Caucasus. So there's really no need to invoke some sort of Hurrian connection here.



I understand you, but you could just say "Hurrians" instead. That would make things clearer.

The first migration Hurrians-Mitanni in Aral Sea from Urmia - II millennium b.c.
(Kamyshli stage of Suyarganovo culture)

Look at. - Толстова Л.С. Древнейшие юго-западные связи в этногенезе каракалпаков//Советская этнография, №2. М., 1971, С.29.

J Man
12-26-2015, 08:51 PM
We need ancient DNA to see truly what the haplogroups of the Hurrians are. Good chance they had some J2a among them though.

Bulat
03-11-2016, 10:43 AM
The DNA-genealogy of Baskir tribes. The descendants of Chuyian Tyurks - Chuban-Shunushi

In this article says about the haplotype of Bashkir from Turkmen-Qobau clan. The origin of the Turkmen-Qobau Bashkir linked to ancient Turkic Chui ethnos - Quban, namely with its northern branch - Surash[1].

Quban-Surash in Chinese chronicles known under the name Chuban-Shunishi [2] 鼠 尼 施, in the era of Turkic khanate, they entered Union of Tribes Doulu [3].

See here:

https://www.academia.edu/23117393/%D0%9C%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%91. %D0%90._%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A-%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D 0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%80%D1 %81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0% B2_-_6._%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D1 %87%D1%83%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%82%D1% 8E%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B 0%D0%BD%D1%8C-%D1%88%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8_BEHPS_Volume_ 3_2_1_2_March_2016_P.147-153

(Note - In Russian language)

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2016-2/kubans-chubs.png

J Man
03-16-2016, 03:17 AM
The DNA-genealogy of Baskir tribes. The descendants of Chuyian Tyurks - Chuban-Shunushi

In this article says about the haplotype of Bashkir from Turkmen-Qobau clan. The origin of the Turkmen-Qobau Bashkir linked to ancient Turkic Chui ethnos - Quban, namely with its northern branch - Surash[1].

Quban-Surash in Chinese chronicles known under the name Chuban-Shunishi [2] 鼠 尼 施, in the era of Turkic khanate, they entered Union of Tribes Doulu [3].

See here:

https://www.academia.edu/23117393/%D0%9C%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%91. %D0%90._%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A-%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D 0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%80%D1 %81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0% B2_-_6._%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D1 %87%D1%83%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D1%82%D1% 8E%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B 0%D0%BD%D1%8C-%D1%88%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8_BEHPS_Volume_ 3_2_1_2_March_2016_P.147-153

(Note - In Russian language)

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2016-2/kubans-chubs.png

So the Bashkirs from the Turkmen-Qobau clan have tested out to belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a? Am I reading this right?

Bulat
03-16-2016, 04:17 PM
So the Bashkirs from the Turkmen-Qobau clan have tested out to belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a? Am I reading this right?

Yes, Bashkrs from Torkmen-Qobau clan have J2a haplogroup.

J Man
03-16-2016, 05:01 PM
Yes, Bashkrs from Torkmen-Qobau clan have J2a haplogroup.

How many Bashkirs from the Turkmen-Qobau clan have tested so far do you know?

Bulat
03-17-2016, 04:38 AM
How many Bashkirs from the Turkmen-Qobau clan have tested so far do you know?
7 persons

J Man
03-17-2016, 04:56 AM
7 persons

Do all 7 of them belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?

Bulat
03-17-2016, 05:08 AM
Do all 7 of them belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?

Yes, these 7 persons from Torkmen-Qobau clan with J2a haplogroup.

Afshar
03-17-2016, 08:15 AM
I wonder, has the Qobau clan anything to do with the Quba khanate that was found in Azerbaidjan, and the Seljuk king Alaaddin Keykubadh?

Caspian
03-17-2016, 10:22 AM
I wonder, has the Qobau clan anything to do with the Quba khanate that was found in Azerbaidjan, and the Seljuk king Alaaddin Keykubadh?

There is no such thing.

Afshar
03-17-2016, 10:38 AM
There is no such thing.
Enlighten me with the origin of "Quba" then

Caspian
03-17-2016, 11:29 AM
Enlighten me with the origin of "Quba" then

What does this have to do with the main topic?

It was a vassal Safavid khanate that was found in 18th century in Quba. It's name came from the city it was founded. The origin of the name of the city is actually unknown like many Azerbaijani cities, because it's name isn't Turkic, Armenian, Persian or Arabic, but there are many thesis about it. It's name came from old Caucasian tribes or old Caucasian city according to most logicial thesis. Quba's native people were Mountain Jews,Tats and Lezgins and maybe they know better.

Back to the other topic, Alaaddin Keykubad's name was derived from a mytoligical Iranian king, Kai Kobad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Kobad) or Sasanian Shah, Qobad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavadh_I). His father's and brother's names also were derived from Sasanian Shahs and mytoligical Iranian kings. For example, Izzeddin Keykavus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykaus_I)'s name was derived from Kay Kavus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_K%C4%81vus) or Kawus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawus) and the name of Giyaseddin Keyhüsrev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykhusraw_I) was derived from Kai Khosrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Khosrow) or Khosrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khosrow_I) due to Seljuqid family were culturally Persianized.

Afshar
03-17-2016, 11:48 AM
What does this have to do with the main topic?

It was a vassal Safavid khanate that was found in 18th century in Quba. It's name came from the city it was founded. The origin of the name of the city is actually unknown like many Azerbaijani cities, because it's name isn't Turkic, Armenian, Persian or Arabic, but there are many thesis about it. It's name came from old Caucasian tribes or old Caucasian city according to most logicial thesis. Quba's native people were Mountain Jews and Lezgins and maybe they know better.

Back to the other topic, Alaaddin Keykubad's name was derived from a mytoligical Iranian king, Kai Kobad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Kobad) or Sasanian Shah, Qobad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavadh_I). His father's and brother's names also were derived from Sasanian Shahs and mytoligical Iranian kings. For example, Izzeddin Keykavus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykaus_I)'s name was derived from Kay Kavus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_K%C4%81vus) or Kawus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawus) and the name of Giyaseddin Keyhüsrev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaykhusraw_I) was derived from Kai Khosrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Khosrow) or Khosrow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khosrow_I) due to Seljuqid family were culturally Persianized.
Thank you for the wikipedia information.

J Man
03-17-2016, 01:46 PM
Yes, these 7 persons from Torkmen-Qobau clan with J2a haplogroup.

And all 7 of them match each other perfectly on all of the markers that were tested?