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Afshar
12-30-2015, 01:11 PM
I have come across this article on wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowther
The community is also known as turukkars, meaning Turk, owing to their Turkish ancestry and history. They are descendants of a group of Muslim soldiers, a mixture of Arabian and Turkish horse-traders and Rajputs of North India who came to South India in the 12th century as a part of the Turkish armies.
Anybody have some haplogroup data from one of them?

soulblighter
02-02-2016, 02:57 AM
I have come across this article on wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowther
Anybody have some haplogroup data from one of them?

Haven't seen haplogroup data from them, but it is interesting that all Muslims are called "Tulukkan" in the Tamil language which sounds like a corruption of "turukkan".

MonkeyDLuffy
02-02-2016, 04:00 AM
I doubt they have much west asian ancestry left. Also completely off topic but my tribe is called Tarkhan/Turkhan as well and some historians have said that we might be descendants of turkic tribes. Although the halogroups and admixture show little to no trace in data available so far.

Afshar
02-02-2016, 07:16 AM
I doubt they have much west asian ancestry left. Also completely off topic but my tribe is called Tarkhan/Turkhan as well and some historians have said that we might be descendants of turkic tribes. Although the halogroups and admixture show little to no trace in data available so far.

I dont think one can prove that with autosomal dna, unless its a more recent event.

MonkeyDLuffy
02-02-2016, 07:34 AM
I dont think one can prove that with autosomal dna, unless its a more recent event.

The turks presence in South Asia is not that old, so even if their descendants mixed a lot, there is still has to be trace or similarity in admixture results, for e.g. In South India some christians/muslims and even some hindus score *east med* or *sw asian*.

In recent IBS comparison runs kurd did, the haryana jat turned out to be one of toppest match for scythian, even after thousand of years of mixing.

I might be wrong, but it's common for people in SA to claim exotic ancestries.

tamilgangster
02-02-2016, 07:36 AM
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/08/what-the-harappa-ancestry-project-has-resolved/#.VrBbmsj3NC8

They dont have any elevated levels of west asian ancestry. On the spread sheet im not sure if they are rawthers though but they do score 3% sw asian, so some distant arabian ancestor is very likely, but its been diluted

Themaster
02-02-2016, 07:44 AM
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/08/what-the-harappa-ancestry-project-has-resolved/#.VrBbmsj3NC8

They dont have any elevated levels of west asian ancestry. On the spread sheet im not sure if they are rawthers though but they do score 3% sw asian, so some distant arabian ancestor is very likely, but its been diluted

Is 3% SW asian enough to conclude Arabian ancestry though ?

Afshar
02-02-2016, 10:20 AM
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/08/what-the-harappa-ancestry-project-has-resolved/#.VrBbmsj3NC8

They dont have any elevated levels of west asian ancestry. On the spread sheet im not sure if they are rawthers though but they do score 3% sw asian, so some distant arabian ancestor is very likely, but its been diluted
You mean the muslim kerala sample?
I dont see any rawthers.


The turks presence in South Asia is not that old, so even if their descendants mixed a lot, there is still has to be trace or similarity in admixture results, for e.g. In South India some christians/muslims and even some hindus score *east med* or *sw asian*.

In recent IBS comparison runs kurd did, the haryana jat turned out to be one of toppest match for scythian, even after thousand of years of mixing.

I might be wrong, but it's common for people in SA to claim exotic ancestries.

Yes thats true, but none of those claiming exotic ancestries did DNA testing unfortunately (there is not much available on the net).

BMG
02-02-2016, 03:53 PM
You mean the muslim kerala sample?
I dont see any rawthers.



Yes thats true, but none of those claiming exotic ancestries did DNA testing unfortunately (there is not much available on the net).
There are rawthers in Kerala but they are recent migrants from Tamil nadu . Anything close to Turkic Ancestry in Kerala Muslims are the soldiers of Tipu Sultan who joined with Pazhassi Raja after the death of Tipu .They have later settled in various parts of North malabar area in Kerala . Incidentally the Tipu's Soldiers were actually called pathankar (The pathans ) Though they were actually a mix of Muslim soldiers and then recent converts to Islam .

BMG
02-02-2016, 04:01 PM
I might be wrong, but it's common for people in SA to claim exotic ancestries.

As far I know exotic Ancestry claims are very rare in kerala .


As far I know exotic Ancestry claims are very rare in kerala .

I agree, South Indians as far as I have seen exclusively want to claim deep native origin and ties.

soulblighter
02-03-2016, 03:48 PM
There are rawthers in Kerala but they are recent migrants from Tamil nadu . Anything close to Turkic Ancestry in Kerala Muslims are the soldiers of Tipu Sultan who joined with Pazhassi Raja after the death of Tipu .They have later settled in various parts of North malabar area in Kerala . Incidentally the Tipu's Soldiers were actually called pathankar (The pathans ) Though they were actually a mix of Muslim soldiers and then recent converts to Islam .

I think he is talking "Turkish" rather than "Turkic" ancestry?
If we are looking for Turkic/Central Asian deep ancestry, I would think we may find that going back maybe millennia even in the south, considering south Asia has always been a magnet for humans because of its rich resources.

Afshar
02-04-2016, 08:10 AM
I think he is talking "Turkish" rather than "Turkic" ancestry?
If we are looking for Turkic/Central Asian deep ancestry, I would think we may find that going back maybe millennia even in the south, considering south Asia has always been a magnet for humans because of its rich resources.
They were probably Turkomans so, they were Turkishic. Also they probably had less west asian than modern day Turkish.

parasar
02-04-2016, 03:33 PM
They were probably Turkomans so, they were Turkishic. Also they probably had less west asian than modern day Turkish.

While Turukkar indeed is Turk, in a later period it was often used in a broad connotation of Muslim.

Turukkar(Tamil)=Turukk(Pali)=Turushk(Sanskrit)

Earlier the Kushans were considered Turks.
El Biruni: "Hindus had kings residing in Kabul, Turks who were said to be of Tibetan origin" https://books.google.com/books?id=FS-yrFmRibYC&pg=PA10
Kalhan Pandit: "all three alike of TuruSka origin" https://books.google.com/books?id=ROM2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA268

Reza
02-04-2016, 04:06 PM
On a side note, in Bangla: তুরস্ক 'turoshko', refers to the modern state of Turkey, and তুর্কী turki, to Turkish, the people or language.

Afshar
02-04-2016, 06:02 PM
Apparently miss India 2015 is ravuthari, seems a bit pale though.

surbakhunWeesste
02-04-2016, 09:18 PM
Apparently miss India 2015 is ravuthari, seems a bit pale though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urvashi_Rautela

She is from Uttarkhand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__QNpt5qA LOL no offence.

out of topic: prettiest and poised Miss India https://www.google.com/search?q=sushmita+sen&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi85OXahN_KAhWGkJQKHe7LC3EQ_AUICCgC&biw=1115&bih=660 OR https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1115&bih=660&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=lara+dutta&oq=lara+dutta&gs_l=img.3...21010.22793.0.23160.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.. 0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.8b-YXhZoRvs

Afshar
02-05-2016, 04:38 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urvashi_Rautela

She is from Uttarkhand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__QNpt5qA LOL no offence.

out of topic: prettiest and poised Miss India https://www.google.com/search?q=sushmita+sen&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi85OXahN_KAhWGkJQKHe7LC3EQ_AUICCgC&biw=1115&bih=660 OR https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1115&bih=660&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=lara+dutta&oq=lara+dutta&gs_l=img.3...21010.22793.0.23160.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.. 0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.8b-YXhZoRvs

No I found some Minash Ravuthar, maybe a different election.

MonkeyDLuffy
02-05-2016, 03:02 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urvashi_Rautela

She is from Uttarkhand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__QNpt5qA LOL no offence.

out of topic: prettiest and poised Miss India https://www.google.com/search?q=sushmita+sen&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi85OXahN_KAhWGkJQKHe7LC3EQ_AUICCgC&biw=1115&bih=660 OR https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1115&bih=660&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=lara+dutta&oq=lara+dutta&gs_l=img.3...21010.22793.0.23160.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.. 0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.8b-YXhZoRvs

I never found sushmita sen that pretty tbh, kind of overrated. Lara dutta sure is a babe.

Also Urvashi is loaded with makeup, she looks average.

BMG
02-05-2016, 03:57 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urvashi_Rautela

She is from Uttarkhand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu__QNpt5qA LOL no offence.

out of topic: prettiest and poised Miss India https://www.google.com/search?q=sushmita+sen&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi85OXahN_KAhWGkJQKHe7LC3EQ_AUICCgC&biw=1115&bih=660 OR https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1115&bih=660&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=lara+dutta&oq=lara+dutta&gs_l=img.3...21010.22793.0.23160.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.. 0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.8b-YXhZoRvs
I am not a fan of these beauty paegents but sushmita sen is one of my favorites

BMG
02-05-2016, 04:00 PM
No I found some Minash Ravuthar, maybe a different election.
I think aditi arya is the one who is actually the miss India 2015

Afshar
02-05-2016, 05:38 PM
I think aditi arya is the one who is actually the miss India 2015

Better choice :)